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What will Disney do about the resorts expiring in 2042 ??

helenabear

Well-Known Member
I think the new POS for future resorts that came out in the last couple of days says something about being able to charge resale owners a fee for them to be able to “purchase” trading rights into the “legacy resorts” (my wording) plus other non-legacy resorts. Not sure if that would cover all direct perks but it’s interesting they have included it.
Yeah that intrigued me as well. Here is the wording for those who want it

"4. DVD has reserved the right, in its discretion to modify or revoke implementation of any of these prohibitions, or then reinstate implementation of any of these prohibitions as it determines in its discretion from time to time, or permit such conversions for such Club Members who pay a fee or acquire an additional Ownership Interest at Riviera Resort or other DVC Resort, or to place additional prohibitions or limitations on certain Club Members including implementing such prohibitions or limitations to select Club Members or categories of Club Members or to set times. Such actions or decisions may be implemented by DVD, in its discretion, through a notice recorded in the public records, by requiring BVTC to make such an amendment to this Disclosure Document, or such other method, and such exercise of its reserved right shall not be subject to the approval or consent of any person, including the Association or any Club Member. All other terms of the Multi-site Public Offering Statement shall remain in full force and effect. "
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
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Just to add, reading through the POS that is out and about on the internet, it looks like no DVC2 or the like. I'm not sure where we can link to directly but lots of info is come out about it. It's a distinction for RRV but nothing massively separate.
I looked through too. What a mess DVC is becoming. I legit could not even begin to fathom buying points today.
 

seascape

Well-Known Member
I looked through too. What a mess DVC is becoming. I legit could not even begin to fathom buying points today.
I keep thinking about buying more points and then also think about my Wyndham points. I have and will continue to buy annual passes so I get free parking. I have enough DVC points for my 4 to 5 trips a year now. I know I will want to stay longer once my wife retires and so more points would be nice but I could use my Wyndham points and stay at Bonnect Creek so I wonder is it worth it? Strictly from a financial view it's not worth it since I get all the benefits no matter where I stay. It I want more Wyndham points they cost almost nothing on Ebay.
 

helenabear

Well-Known Member
I looked through too. What a mess DVC is becoming. I legit could not even begin to fathom buying points today.
Actually I think that's not so much of a mess, as a smart move on their part financially. I would still buy points today. Doubt direct either and I honestly really don't care what they do. But I look at my DVC as ways to stay and enjoy it, not as an investment or the like. If I ever cannot or do no want to go to Disney as long as I can unload my points, I'm happy.
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
Actually I think that's not so much of a mess, as a smart move on their part financially. I would still buy points today. Doubt direct either and I honestly really don't care what they do. But I look at my DVC as ways to stay and enjoy it, not as an investment or the like. If I ever cannot or do no want to go to Disney as long as I can unload my points, I'm happy.
I don't think it's a smart move to try and keep extracting money from already sold points. But what do I know.
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
I would assume a pretty good discount. I think existing owners with expiring points would be a primary target for the sales guys. People who own and still want to own will likely want to buy new points. Only question is if they are long time owners will they survive the sticker shock from seeing how much the points cost.
For really long time owners, you may be looking at 15 years for more then you paid for the original 40 or so.
 

helenabear

Well-Known Member
I don't think it's a smart move to try and keep extracting money from already sold points. But what do I know.
So do you expect Disney to be okay with people not buying from them in the long term? At the beginning resale wasn't much of an issue for them. Now it is. That's why these are in place. You want full use? Pay up. You still get better use of your points than a lot of timeshares depending on where and how you buy.

Said as a direct and resale owner.
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
So do you expect Disney to be okay with people not buying from them in the long term? At the beginning resale wasn't much of an issue for them. Now it is. That's why these are in place. You want full use? Pay up. You still get better use of your points than a lot of timeshares depending on where and how you buy.

Said as a direct and resale owner.
Yes. I expect Disney to not try and extract more money out of already sold points. They have made their bucket loads of cash off of those points already. Now they are just sticking it to owners, those same owners who are their best customers and have been lining their coffers for years. It's a dirty move.

What I find odd is when moves like this get defended by the rank and file DVC owners. We aren't going to get a check in the mail from these profits. All this type of crap does is devalue our contracts. Why would you want that? It's bizarre.
 

helenabear

Well-Known Member
Yes. I expect Disney to not try and extract more money out of already sold points. They have made their bucket loads of cash off of those points already. Now they are just sticking it to owners, those same owners who are their best customers and have been lining their coffers for years. It's a dirty move.

What I find odd is when moves like this get defended by the rank and file DVC owners. We aren't going to get a check in the mail from these profits. All this type of crap does is devalue our contracts. Why would you want that? It's bizarre.
I keep typing this and it sounds rude, and I really don't mean it to. You have every right to your opinion on this. I just happen to not agree :)

Disney is for profit, has always been for profit. Disney himself was rather ruthless. I think sometimes we get blinded by pixie dust so to speak. I suppose I don't expect much out of them any longer, but my contacts have been long paid for and I've gotten quite a lot of use out of them already. I didn't buy in to make money or make an investment. I did it to get a good deal on rooms long term. I've got that. I really don't care any longer if things are 'devalued' and as long as I can dump my points if I decide I no longer want them, that's good. I'm not here to make money on any of this. That said for the time, I don't see use needing to dump points so it's all mute. It's a timeshare though... that in itself makes it something that I don't assume should have value upon resale.
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
I keep typing this and it sounds rude, and I really don't mean it to. You have every right to your opinion on this. I just happen to not agree :)

Disney is for profit, has always been for profit. Disney himself was rather ruthless. I think sometimes we get blinded by pixie dust so to speak. I suppose I don't expect much out of them any longer, but my contacts have been long paid for and I've gotten quite a lot of use out of them already. I didn't buy in to make money or make an investment. I did it to get a good deal on rooms long term. I've got that. I really don't care any longer if things are 'devalued' and as long as I can dump my points if I decide I no longer want them, that's good. I'm not here to make money on any of this. That said for the time, I don't see use needing to dump points so it's all mute. It's a timeshare though... that in itself makes it something that I don't assume should have value upon resale.

Please keep retyping this because I think it's some thing that people fail to get and then get upset. They are not to be used as money makers, they are prepaid lodgings. The value is in USING them, not in the making profit.
Owners are not "owed" any thing outside of the future use of accommodations paid for at todays (or whenever one purchased) dollars.

I haven't been to a presentation in a while but I do remember cringing at the marriot timeshare presentation because they keep yammering on about resale value.
Disney is a business (another point people seem to forget) and they are protecting their product. there isn't any "devaluation" because the value is in the ability to use lodgings. They have every right to resell my points after my contract with them is up. I will have gotten the intended value from it.

If i sold today and all I got was 20 bucks, I would have still gotten the full value since i've taken a boatload of trips with cheap accommodations.
 
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xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
I keep typing this and it sounds rude, and I really don't mean it to. You have every right to your opinion on this. I just happen to not agree :)

Disney is for profit, has always been for profit. Disney himself was rather ruthless. I think sometimes we get blinded by pixie dust so to speak. I suppose I don't expect much out of them any longer, but my contacts have been long paid for and I've gotten quite a lot of use out of them already. I didn't buy in to make money or make an investment. I did it to get a good deal on rooms long term. I've got that. I really don't care any longer if things are 'devalued' and as long as I can dump my points if I decide I no longer want them, that's good. I'm not here to make money on any of this. That said for the time, I don't see use needing to dump points so it's all mute. It's a timeshare though... that in itself makes it something that I don't assume should have value upon resale.
It's my opinion that DVC should act in the best interests of it's members. You don't share that opinion? You believe they should act in the best interests of a multibillion dollar media conglomerate? That's your opinion?
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
Technically they owe us more then that.

What else? seriously. I haven't read my contract in 20 years (since I first purchased) but my understanding was I purchased points to basically be used as accommodations.

Just a brief google search turned up this.

the Disney Vacation Club (DVC) is a vacation timeshare program owned and operated by Disney Vacation Development, Inc., a subsidiary of Disney Signature Experiences, a division of Walt Disney Parks, Experiences and Consumer Products, a segment of The Walt Disney Company.

Now I don't think it's an "either/or" proposition but I would think their first fiduciary responsibility would be to WD parks, experiences and consumer products. again I'm guessing just from a quick google search. I guess I should dust off my copy of the agreement, lol gotta find it.
 
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helenabear

Well-Known Member
It's my opinion that DVC should act in the best interests of it's members. You don't share that opinion? You believe they should act in the best interests of a multibillion dollar media conglomerate? That's your opinion?
I think they are a business first. I have read the POSs so many times lately I'm likely more 'clinical' now in what they do. TBH I don't see what resale has to do with members really. I want them to treat the resorts right and follow the POS as long as I am a member. If I am selling, they don't need to care about me or those who buy my old contract. JMO of course.

Please keep retyping this because I think it's some thing that people fail to get and then get upset. They are not to be used as money makers, they are prepaid lodgings. The value is in USING them, not in the making profit.
Owners are not "owed" any thing outside of the future use of accommodations paid for at todays (or whenever one purchased) dollars.

I haven't been to a presentation in a while but I do remember cringing at the marriot timeshare presentation because they keep yammering on about resale value.
Disney is a business (another point people seem to forget) and they are protecting their product. there isn't any "devaluation" because the value is in the ability to use lodgings. They have every right to resell my points after my contract with them is up. I will have gotten the intended value from it.

If i sold today and all I got was 20 bucks, I would have still gotten the full value since i've taken a boatload of trips with cheap accommodations.
Very much how I feel. I think sometimes because it is Disney people expect more. Of course some also expect more because people feel entitled to things that they may or really be 'entitled' to. That's not directed at anyone in particular though. Just observations.

You can imagine that in 15 years with some really awesome stays, that I think I'm already out ahead as well.
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
I think they are a business first. I have read the POSs so many times lately I'm likely more 'clinical' now in what they do. TBH I don't see what resale has to do with members really. I want them to treat the resorts right and follow the POS as long as I am a member. If I am selling, they don't need to care about me or those who buy my old contract. JMO of course.


Very much how I feel. I think sometimes because it is Disney people expect more. Of course some also expect more because people feel entitled to things that they may or really be 'entitled' to. That's not directed at anyone in particular though. Just observations.

You can imagine that in 15 years with some really awesome stays, that I think I'm already out ahead as well.
FWIW I am way ahead. My family is DVC charter members, and I bought in over 15 years ago myself. I expect more because they used to do more. Things have changed, and not for the better. 🤷‍♂️
 

helenabear

Well-Known Member
FWIW I am way ahead. My family is DVC charter members, and I bought in over 15 years ago myself. I expect more because they used to do more. Things have changed, and not for the better. 🤷‍♂️
They used to do more? I beg to differ on this. For members when we bought in (15 years here too) they offered very little. I think they've done more for members than they did then. Granted likely more was done when your family had bought in with the tickets and such, but those days ended quickly too.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I will throw my 2 cents into this debate. I really don’t care what Disney does to the resale market as long as I can still resell my points if I choose to. Benefits for future resale owners are irrelevant to me. I have all the points I will ever want or need so I will never be a new resale owner again. So far all of the restrictions on resale buyers has not slowed the resale market much so it doesn’t impact me.

I do believe that it is actually a benefit to us as current owners that Disney is actively selling new direct points and at an Increasing price. The more they ask for direct points the more benefits we are likely to get because they also use those benefits in the sales pitch. I know they aren’t guaranteed to last, but it helps sell the points when people start factoring in AP and food/merchandise discounts. Disney makes a huge windfall of profits from selling DVC so the cost of the perks to owners is a drop in the bucket compared to the profits. If the perks help sell the points they will continue. If we ever get to the point where Disney stops selling DVC points I would imagine the member discounts and perks will dry up too. They may not go away completely but heavily reduced.
 

Lensman

Premium Member
I think they are a business first. I have read the POSs so many times lately I'm likely more 'clinical' now in what they do. TBH I don't see what resale has to do with members really. I want them to treat the resorts right and follow the POS as long as I am a member. If I am selling, they don't need to care about me or those who buy my old contract. JMO of course.
I've always liked the now old-fashioned notion of corporate management balancing the needs of customers, employees, and shareholders, with a nod to other stakeholders like the community and society. I also think there's nothing bad about the newer notion of the customer-centric corporation where delighting the customer is the management goal and increased shareholder value is a consequence rather than a strategy.

I also see decreased resale value as a minus to current owners. You can mitigate it a by choosing not to sell, but I always think of liquidity as a good thing and so knowing that if I did sell it would be for less is a bad thing. And I could certainly imagine that other owners would be less willing or able to hold DVC to the end of the contract, so I am even more inclined to view such erosions of value as bad for others, if not me.
I will throw my 2 cents into this debate. I really don’t care what Disney does to the resale market as long as I can still resell my points if I choose to. Benefits for future resale owners are irrelevant to me. I have all the points I will ever want or need so I will never be a new resale owner again. So far all of the restrictions on resale buyers has not slowed the resale market much so it doesn’t impact me.
But do you care if the changes impact the price that you sell your points for in the future? I would.

I do believe that it is actually a benefit to us as current owners that Disney is actively selling new direct points and at an Increasing price. The more they ask for direct points the more benefits we are likely to get because they also use those benefits in the sales pitch. I know they aren’t guaranteed to last, but it helps sell the points when people start factoring in AP and food/merchandise discounts. Disney makes a huge windfall of profits from selling DVC so the cost of the perks to owners is a drop in the bucket compared to the profits. If the perks help sell the points they will continue. If we ever get to the point where Disney stops selling DVC points I would imagine the member discounts and perks will dry up too. They may not go away completely but heavily reduced.
An interesting point, but I'm not sure what tangible benefits you're talking about. I think I can see how increased direct pricing has increased resale prices. I see that increased resale pricing as having some value to me even though I don't intend to sell anytime soon. And if one says that one doesn't care whether resale prices go down, I think one also has to say that one doesn't care whether resale prices go up, right? :)

Anyway, I'm not quite sure what this all had to do with our fun speculation about what will happen to the 2042 resorts. :)
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
But do you care if the changes impact the price that you sell your points for in the future? I would.
I don’t see the changes making a meaningful downward decrease in resale value. Any decrease in desireability for resale points due to lack of benefits seems to be more than offset by the increase in resale value due to direct prices going up. In other words they keep trying to make resale less desirable but as long as direct prices increase resale will follow. So in a long winded way my answer is yes, I care but I just don’t see these limits on resale making a major impact. The most recent one with Riviera actually makes my BLT points more valuable.

An interesting point, but I'm not sure what tangible benefits you're talking about. I think I can see how increased direct pricing has increased resale prices. I see that increased resale pricing as having some value to me even though I don't intend to sell anytime soon. And if one says that one doesn't care whether resale prices go down, I think one also has to say that one doesn't care whether resale prices go up, right? :)

Anyway, I'm not quite sure what this all had to do with our fun speculation about what will happen to the 2042 resorts. :)
The tangible benefits I am talking about are the membership magic things. Extra member benefits like AP discounts, food and dining discounts, moonlight magic, pool hopping, member lounges at EPCOT and BLT, etc... Most of these items have a direct cost to Disney. These may just be kind gestures to loyal guests, but from a more cynical point of view they are great selling features Disney uses to sell DVC points. As a current owner I’m glad to take advantage of these benefits and I hope they continue. I feel like the benefits have been getting better since I’ve been a member and I think there’s at least some correlation to the increased direct sales prices. So in a convoluted way I am happy to see Disney continue to successfully sell direct points even at highly inflated prices. Not because I care how much profit they make, but because I indirectly benefit from perks that may not exist if they weren’t trying to sell those points.
 

helenabear

Well-Known Member
I've always liked the now old-fashioned notion of corporate management balancing the needs of customers, employees, and shareholders, with a nod to other stakeholders like the community and society. I also think there's nothing bad about the newer notion of the customer-centric corporation where delighting the customer is the management goal and increased shareholder value is a consequence rather than a strategy.

I also see decreased resale value as a minus to current owners. You can mitigate it a by choosing not to sell, but I always think of liquidity as a good thing and so knowing that if I did sell it would be for less is a bad thing. And I could certainly imagine that other owners would be less willing or able to hold DVC to the end of the contract, so I am even more inclined to view such erosions of value as bad for others, if not me.

But do you care if the changes impact the price that you sell your points for in the future? I would.


An interesting point, but I'm not sure what tangible benefits you're talking about. I think I can see how increased direct pricing has increased resale prices. I see that increased resale pricing as having some value to me even though I don't intend to sell anytime soon. And if one says that one doesn't care whether resale prices go down, I think one also has to say that one doesn't care whether resale prices go up, right? :)

Anyway, I'm not quite sure what this all had to do with our fun speculation about what will happen to the 2042 resorts. :)
The thing about DVC is that this is a timeshare. The longer I own, the more I realize that this isn't an asset in the traditional sense. There will be a time when it is worthless really in terms of assets. I do think this is a fallacy most owners have. We're not talking a piece of property we own, we're talking a diminishing value item. So you talk of liquidity, I think of "can I unload if needed?" and not about what I'll get back. Not at this point.

The future is going to devalue resorts on its own. That's something we all need to reconcile with. This product has a limited time of actual value before it declines and on a regular basis too.

I know 2042 is a while from now, but all these 2042 resorts will become less and less valuable. In 15 years we'll be at the lower end of the cycle and nothing we can do will ever bring up the value.
 
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