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What will Disney do about the resorts expiring in 2042 ??

Naplesgolfer

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Disney has 6 resorts expiring in 2042. 4 in WDW and 2 elsewhere . I wonder if they will need to start offering extensions of various lengths on these resorts soon. I know they can't remodel (or demolish and rebuild) and resell these resorts all at the same time they need 3-4 gaps in order to do the work and sell out. they need them to expire on a staggered time line. What do you think? When will they start to extend?
 

nickys

Premium Member
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Disney has 6 resorts expiring in 2042. 4 in WDW and 2 elsewhere . I wonder if they will need to start offering extensions of various lengths on these resorts soon. I know they can't remodel (or demolish and rebuild) and resell these resorts all at the same time they need 3-4 gaps in order to do the work and sell out. they need them to expire on a staggered time line. What do you think? When will they start to extend?

That was a complete disaster at OKW, where they now have owners with two expiration dates. Since they will own at different units, which are in legal deeds, DVC will be unable to rip any buildings down to rebuild from scratch .... the whole thing is a mess.

What will they do? It’s anyone's guess right now. Re-furbish and start selling again. Rebuild a new resort. Wind down the timeshare programme (unlikely).
 

nickys

Premium Member
You can bet that whatever Disney does with the resorts it will be to produce a larger profit off the location.
My guess: Disney will create a new timeshare system and refurb/rebuild for that. DVC will eventually pitter out.
And the new sale restrictions perhaps support that view. Riviera, Lakeside and any new resorts could all be part of a “DVC mark 2”. Maybe testing the waters with the Riviera resale restrictions.

Not sure I agree with the first part. Not until 2060 at least!
 
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helenabear

Well-Known Member
5 resorts - OKW ends in 2057

Likely they will resell or rebuild depending on how things are going for Disney.

That was a complete disaster at OKW, where they now have owners with two expiration dates. Since they will own at different units, which are in legal deeds, DVC will be unable to rip any buildings down to rebuild from scratch .... the whole thing is a mess.

What will they do? It’s anyone's guess right now. Re-furbish and start selling again. Rebuild a new resort. Wind down the timeshare programme (unlikely).
The owners with 2042 just relinquish their membership in 2042. This needs to be said many times so people truly understand what happened. There are not 2 end dates for OKW. Only 1. Some owners signed a quitclaim deed saying they are handing it over early.

They will, and are, able to sell OKW and keep selling OKW with an end date directly. So in 2042, DVC gets a whole lot of 15 year points back that they can sell no extra charge to them (unlike ROFR).
 

FCivish3

Member
The expiring resorts are HHI, Vero Beach, Beach Club, Boardwalk Villas, and Boulder Ridge. Old Key West is NOT expiring, it has already been extended to 2057, but a large number of people will be giving up their rights to use it, after 2042. Only those who paid for the extension will still have it.

Disney will most likely sell off HHI and Vero Beach. The are not that popular, they are not that profitable, they are worth less per point than other resorts, and there is no real reason to keep them, since their original purpose was to help Disney broaden and expand DVC, but they failed in that, for the most part. ALSO, Disney has undergone a change in philosophy, from making DVC into an amazing timeshare that would serve all 'Vacation Club' owners, into a much more focussed, money making pipeline funneling people directly into Disney World. Perhaps the main reason Disney is likely to sell them off, is because they drag down the value of DVC points. This makes it harder for Disney to sell the more expensive points at other resorts. So HHI and VB probably don't need to be a part of the future of post 2042 DVC.

BCV, BWV and Boulder Ridge have a total of about 1000 units between them. A bit more units than are in the resorts of OKW and AK (both of which have a little over 700 units), but significantly less than SSR, with 1300 units. Disney will probably take all three of those resorts and immediately start renting the units out, while reselling them as quickly as possible, as new DVC units. They might remodel some, but DVC Membership Dues should have maintained them in excellent shape, and they pretty much will be ready to turn around and be rented or sold almost immediately. Why would Disney tear them down and go to the additional expense of building new units when the currently existing ones will be doing just fine? I know that we, as American's expect that buildings will be new, but that is just because of the 'brief' age of our country. I was recently in Europe where many fine hotels have been in use for over 200 years, as hotels, and are still doing just fine. I don't see why Disney would need to tear down buildings that are only 50 or 60 years old.

It is not clear how much of OKW is owned by people who have extended, and what percentage is going to expire, but there will probably be a not insignificant portion of it that will be looking for new owners after 2042. On the other hand, Disney has been exercising ROFR on Old Key West at the rate of about 80 contracts per year. Clearly, if they keep this up for 10 years, then through their ROFR they will end up converting most of the 'expiring contracts' into 'non-expiring contracts,' since most of them will have been extended by 2042. 80 per year for 10 years is 800 units, which is more than the total number of units at OKW. Still, however many unextended units remain, those units will be added to the sales inventory, BUT, they will be short term sales of 15 years or so. I DO believe that Disney will try to sell them, just in order to avoid paying the Maintenance Fees, but they won't be able to sell those points for full price. And if they think current 'Resales' with discounted prices is adversely affecting their more expensive Direct sales, then I see OKW at 15 years as being an even bigger problem. There are certainly many people, who would jump on an OKW contract giving them 15 years for $70 per point, rather than a more expensive 50 year contract somewhere else at $200 per point (equivalent, adjusted for inflation). So, unless they 'convert' most of the expiring contracts into extended contracts by then, it could be a problem for them. My guess is that they are doing just fine, by picking up OKW with ROFR at the rate they are, and so this probably won't be a problem.

So that still leaves the question of what they will do with BCV, Boardwalk and Boulder Ridge in 2042. I think it is likely that Beach Club will just be converted into a 'Villa Hotel.' It is a very desirable location and they will almost certainly NEED the hotel rooms by then. And they will put the Boardwalk and Boulder Ridge units on the DVC market, while also using many of them as hotel rooms in the intermediate timeframe. If they are not trying to sell BCV as DVC, then they other resorts will give them a total of around 700 'new DVC units' to sell. This is quite manageable. And with proper planning and preparation, and by not building any more DVC units in the last 4 years before 2042, I really don't see Disney having any problems. DVC will be 'refreshed' and will continue to go on as it has before.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Disney has 6 resorts expiring in 2042. 4 in WDW and 2 elsewhere . I wonder if they will need to start offering extensions of various lengths on these resorts soon. I know they can't remodel (or demolish and rebuild) and resell these resorts all at the same time they need 3-4 gaps in order to do the work and sell out. they need them to expire on a staggered time line. What do you think? When will they start to extend?
They will probably use the rooms as hotel rooms at first and eventually sell them back as new DVC resorts. So for example they use BCV and WLV as hotel rooms and then actively sell boardwalk. Then when BW sells out start selling BC and then WL. I would assume they may consider a major refurb before selling each resort. Maybe including new pools and common areas. I don’t think they will try to sell all 3 resorts at once.

I posted this in another thread, but once 2042 rolls around there’s no need to build “new” DVC resorts for many years if ever. With that being said it takes roughly 3 years to sell out a resort so the schedule goes:
2020-2022 Riviera
2023-2025 River Country project
2026-2028 EPCOT parking lot project (rumored)
That means there’s roughly 4 to 5 additional projects needed to keep sales churning. They are quickly running out of obvious options for new resorts. Maybe they double up like they did recently at WL. Maybe more rooms at BC/YC converted to DVC. Maybe the other half of BW is converted. More rooms at GF, etc... The point is that when 2042 rolls around they will be glad to have premium locations available to sell and they will want to keep the gravy train rolling.
 

Lensman

Premium Member
They will probably use the rooms as hotel rooms at first and eventually sell them back as new DVC resorts. So for example they use BCV and WLV as hotel rooms and then actively sell boardwalk. Then when BW sells out start selling BC and then WL. I would assume they may consider a major refurb before selling each resort. Maybe including new pools and common areas. I don’t think they will try to sell all 3 resorts at once.
I wonder if the DVC component of these resorts is too "villa heavy" to sell effectively as cash rooms? I suppose that as an interim step it won't be that bad.

I'll go on the record with the idea that 20-some odd years from now, it may make financial sense to rebuild Beach Club or Boardwalk as higher density resorts. People already complain about how far some of the Boardwalk rooms are from the lobby. I wonder how high they can build without impacting sightlines? With the Skyliner at the International Gateway, they could recenter the resort rooms closer to the IG and maybe rethink the retail, restaurants, and activities of the boardwalk itself.

I say all this with a bit of sadness because I'm very fond of the Boardwalk concept and architecture. But maybe I won't live to see the destruction? :/
 

YorkshireT

Active Member
There is not a chance they will extend as they want everything in DVC 2 with Riviera and reflections to finally finish off resale.
They will rent them out as cash rooms and rebuild, remodel and resell as DVC 2 at their own leisure.
 

helenabear

Well-Known Member
There is not a chance they will extend as they want everything in DVC 2 with Riviera and reflections to finally finish off resale.
They will rent them out as cash rooms and rebuild, remodel and resell as DVC 2 at their own leisure.
What makes you think there will be a "DVC 2"?
 

seascape

Well-Known Member
I agree with those who say Disney will resell them. There is no reason for them to agree to an extension at a discounted price when they can and will make more selling them at whatever the current price per point is in 2043. As for Hilton Head and Vero Beach, they should actually buy another timeshare company and bundle it into a new subsidiary. That way they can have their own trading company and give priority to it. The reason the offsite locations didn't work as well as they would have liked is they didn't have the number of locations needed and it would take too long to build. Timeshares are profitable if run correctly and Disney knows how to sell without pressure. They could also setup their own trading company to handle trades into DVC and limit DVC to those who own at their subsidiary.
 

seascape

Well-Known Member
If the new contracts are going to be $200 for 50 years, it averages $4.00 a year. So 15 years should be less than $60.00.
 

YorkshireT

Active Member
Actually it's still DVC. Just writing it in a way that resales are more restricted. Much like other timeshares.
I suspect it's another club with trading in and out of DVC 1. Membership of the club (original) is by appurtuance to the property ownership, so if Riviera joined it, it would be open to current DVC members direct or resale. Otherwise I'm struggling to see how they could restrict the original DVC trading into it when resale. The BVTC updated statement will offer clarity but no-one has seen a copy. Of course, this is behind the scenes and most people won't notice there's a new DVC Club.
 

helenabear

Well-Known Member
I suspect it's another club with trading in and out of DVC 1. Membership of the club (original) is by appurtuance to the property ownership, so if Riviera joined it, it would be open to current DVC members direct or resale. Otherwise I'm struggling to see how they could restrict the original DVC trading into it when resale. The BVTC updated statement will offer clarity but no-one has seen a copy. Of course, this is behind the scenes and most people won't notice there's a new DVC Club.
I don't see it that way. They make zero distinction with direct points. DCV2 with trading implies a trading process. For direct it will be seamless. Plus if we are making RR DVC2 Reflections will be 3 and so on.

For resales it is being written in from here on out that your resort options depend on where you buy. They cannot retroactively change the POS for the resort (with the exception of adding rooms and thus points), but they can do it for soon to be sold and any restrictions or limitations. It's still all under DVC though.

Again direct will feel no change. It's just another tier they are adding like other timeshares do.
 

YorkshireT

Active Member
I don't see it that way. They make zero distinction with direct points. DCV2 with trading implies a trading process. For direct it will be seamless. Plus if we are making RR DVC2 Reflections will be 3 and so on.

For resales it is being written in from here on out that your resort options depend on where you buy. They cannot retroactively change the POS for the resort (with the exception of adding rooms and thus points), but they can do it for soon to be sold and any restrictions or limitations. It's still all under DVC though.

Again direct will feel no change. It's just another tier they are adding like other timeshares do.
There's a trading process anyway via BVTC, that's what it does. If Riviera joins the same club as the others, it would have to abide by the club rules just like others. I can't see how it can join on special terms and have unlimited trades into the original 14 but the original 14 cannot trade into it. That wouldn't be in the interests of members currently and potentially breach of fiduciary duty by DVCMC and BVTC.
What they can do is stick all resorts from hereon in , in a second club and facilitate trading between the two which will have to balance into DVC1. People won't realise this is happening.
I could be proven wrong but this is how many people think it must work.
They can't change the declaration of condominium for resale buyers unless it is the members interests. That is why they cannot and never will be able to stop resale in the original 14 trading into other resorts via the Club. By this I mean the DVC 1 club we all know now. The only way they can stop members trading into and out of the club is either to remove the resort entirely from the club so no-one can trade out, or set up a new club with new rules with background trading into each other which they control.
 

LuvtheGoof

Proud DVC Member
Premium Member
There's a trading process anyway via BVTC, that's what it does. If Riviera joins the same club as the others, it would have to abide by the club rules just like others. I can't see how it can join on special terms and have unlimited trades into the original 14 but the original 14 cannot trade into it. That wouldn't be in the interests of members currently and potentially breach of fiduciary duty by DVCMC and BVTC.
What they can do is stick all resorts from hereon in , in a second club and facilitate trading between the two which will have to balance into DVC1. People won't realise this is happening.
I could be proven wrong but this is how many people think it must work.
They can't change the declaration of condominium for resale buyers unless it is the members interests. That is why they cannot and never will be able to stop resale in the original 14 trading into other resorts via the Club. By this I mean the DVC 1 club we all know now. The only way they can stop members trading into and out of the club is either to remove the resort entirely from the club so no-one can trade out, or set up a new club with new rules with background trading into each other which they control.
Anyone who buys direct from Disney for any resort can reserve at any current and future resort. Any one who bought resale prior to January 19th at any of the current 14 properties, can reserve at any of the current resorts and any future resort. It is only people purchasing resale (and who do NOT have a direct contract at all) after January 19th that can only use those points at the original 14 resorts.

Not sure why you think that they can't change the declaration of condominium unless it is in the members interest. They've done lots of changes not in the member's interest of the last several years.
 

YorkshireT

Active Member
I won't argue with you, just read the declaration where it says it can only be unilaterally amended in the member's interests. It is there in black and white.
I'm not sure you are entirely grasping my point which is probably my fault. They would already have amended the declaration to exclude resale from exchanging into the first 14 if they could. They can't.
So the first 14 can always exchange into the original club.
For various legal reasons, I fail to see how you can have another resort joining the same club, but excluding members who are paying dues (resale) and paying for the facilities the inability to trade into the resort that has joined. That would not only be grossly unfair, and in my view potentially actionable, but it also would not fit DVCMC's fiduciary duty to act in the interests of its members who pay for it to run the club.
What they can do, is set up another club. The average member won't be aware of this, it's just DVC as far as they are concerned. All new resorts from now on go into this new club.
DVD can set the rules on this new club, by agreeing that a Riviera member can trade into the original DVC club, but they'll only allow direct and grandfathered to trade into the new DVC Club from the original DVC Club. Thus it's a points exchange out of the original club into the new club and into the original club from the new club. This way they get around fiduciary duties owed by the administrator of the original club, DVCMC, to to members in DVC 1.
This is my take on it, you seem to disagree, but many people seem to believe this will be how it works.
If it doesn't I'll be interested to see how they manage it.
The BVTC statement which they've apparently had to amend to facilitate this, may cast more light on this.
 
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