What to put in the northwestern end of the Magic Kingdom?

spacemt354

Chili's
I shut down their ideas, because they just don't seem really doable in reality. In the case of, say, the Radiator Springs Racers, if they simply use only the technology from Test Track there, why aren't they using the technology elsewhere in the Florida resort?

There are many things I myself would like to see, but it's no fun doing them when the space for them is not (or will not be) available. On many of these threads, I see most people decide on what they want to see and then just go with it, whether it's realistic or not. It's really no fun coming up with ideas that I want to see, only to be stopped by logistics. Unlike someone like, say, @MANEATINGWREATH, I prefer not to be too fictitious in what I would like to see happen. I prefer to work in parks that actually exist (or in the case of that park idea in Brazil, come up with a real location for it). As far as I'm concerned, it's just as important to decide on a location for an idea as it is to do the idea itself. I once did a whole thread devoted to this very subject: https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/blue-sky-vs-all-else-but-mostly-constraints.897813/. In this, I argued that constraints are just as important (if not more so) as the blue sky process.

On a slightly unrelated matter, in that thread, I believed you mentioned that all four parks have several expansion pads, but besides the one you proposed beyond the train tracks, where else can they happen in the Magic Kingdom?

Anyway, this different location you speak off would only work if the river was not rerouted by scrapped entirely. This would open up a lot of space for something else since the Rivers of America takes up a ton of space anyway, but what about, say, that little turnabout at the base of Splash Mountain's main drop, which always juts out into the river in all parks?

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Last post on this topic from me...I'm not gonna spin my wheels...

This is what I'm talking about. This is very similar to what is currently happening in Disneyland with Star Wars Land...the railroad has been edited, the Rivers of America diminished.

The canal you keep talking about is not, I repeat, not, affected in any way by this expansion like you have claimed.

This opens up much more expansion space, and is out of the proximity of the Fireworks fallout zone. And since you are docking the Liberty as a restaurant rather than an attraction, bridges over to Tom Sawyer Island and over the canal should not be issues.

If you don't want to use this...that's fine with me, but I'm done explaining it.
 

Brer Oswald

Well-Known Member
I suggest an area more aquatic themed, akin to DisneySea. Of course, maybe Toontown stuff could work there... like Epic Mickey and KH! Call it CyberSea, with Epic Mickey and KH being E-Tickets, with maybe a few others like Spectrobes, Maui Mallard, etc, providing other rides.
I did a write up on a hypothetical Epic Mickey attraction awhile back. It was for a prompt and @spacemt354 made a site featuring all the rides we created as a team. It was called “Cartoons and Cereal” I believe?
 

mharrington

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Looks cool, but we would need a couple more attractions. The Epic Mickey one looks cool, but I'm not sure about Kingdom Hearts. It also needs to be remembered that the Epic Mickey series was canceled several years ago, which is a shame because it was so cool. I think we could really only have one or the other, but not both, since they seem like they would clash. Remember, both Epic Mickey and Kingdom Hearts have Mickey, plus the ability to travel to different areas of the Disney universe.
 

Brer Oswald

Well-Known Member
Looks cool, but we would need a couple more attractions. The Epic Mickey one looks cool, but I'm not sure about Kingdom Hearts. It also needs to be remembered that the Epic Mickey series was canceled several years ago, which is a shame because it was so cool. I think we could really only have one or the other, but not both, since they seem like they would clash. Remember, both Epic Mickey and Kingdom Hearts have Mickey, plus the ability to travel to different areas of the Disney universe.
They are very different takes on different parts of Disney. Epic Mickey focuses on Disney’s Classic and Underused IP, with a greater emphasis on Mickey. Kingdom Hearts focuses more on merging modern Disney worlds with Final Fantasy type characters.
 

mharrington

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
They are very different takes on different parts of Disney. Epic Mickey focuses on Disney’s Classic and Underused IP, with a greater emphasis on Mickey. Kingdom Hearts focuses more on merging modern Disney worlds with Final Fantasy type characters.

True, but they do both feature Mickey, himself in two separate roles, so I say we should just pick one of the two and go with that.
 

mharrington

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Yes because Epic Mickey 2 was a disaster. The concept still works. Disney owns everything from Epic Mickey. They don’t from Kingdom Hearts.

Maybe so, but why then are they not doing more with the Epic Mickey property? Didn't the EM2 disaster kind of scare them off? Wasn't Junction Point shut down and Warren Spector canned?

What do they not own from KH, besides Final Fantasy?
 

Brer Oswald

Well-Known Member
Maybe so, but why then are they not doing more with the Epic Mickey property? Didn't the EM2 disaster kind of scare them off? Wasn't Junction Point shut down and Warren Spector canned?

What do they not own from KH, besides Final Fantasy?
Why aren’t they doing anything with Epic Mickey? Because it’s not immediately profitable. But this is armchair Imagineering mind you, so we could establish it as a ride IP that becomes profitable. What don’t they own from Kingdom Hearts? All of the KH original characters (ie. Sora) and the Final Fantasy locations and characters. Without those, it’s just Disney. The same stuff we see in all the parks.
 

mharrington

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
What don’t they own from Kingdom Hearts? All of the KH original characters (ie. Sora) and the Final Fantasy locations and characters. Without those, it’s just Disney. The same stuff we see in all the parks.

I understand about Final Fantasy, but if Disney doesn't own the original KH characters, what does?
 

mharrington

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Why aren’t they doing anything with Epic Mickey? Because it’s not immediately profitable. But this is armchair Imagineering mind you, so we could establish it as a ride IP that becomes profitable. What don’t they own from Kingdom Hearts? All of the KH original characters (ie. Sora) and the Final Fantasy locations and characters. Without those, it’s just Disney. The same stuff we see in all the parks.

Well, no offense, but my armchair Imagineering tries to be realistic, and that means taking reality into account. In this case, I would think that, of the two, KH is more profitable. It must be, if that series is still going.

Another thing I was thinking of, although I'm not sure how realistic or not it is, especially given its vicinity to Frontierland, is a pier-like area, similar to Paradise Pier, but not themed to Pixar (or paradise). I was thinking of doing it with classic Disney characters (i.e., Mickey and the gang), but considering the Storybook Circus area at the other end, home to a small coaster themed to Goofy, it seems odd to have a Fab Five-like area in another area of the park.
 

SteamboatJoe

Well-Known Member
New question: if I went with the early 20th century for a theme here, how can it transition to the 17th/18th century represented by Liberty Square? I don't want to be disruptive in terms of being thematic. There's an article in Passport 2 Dreams that objected to putting Splash Mountain where it is in Florida. This is off-topic, I know, but the objection is disruption of flow, because it "makes mince of the careful architectural and conceptual progression of Magic Kingdom's river district, the true heart and most accomplished area of the park". Here's how the river district is described by the author:

"Liberty Square sweeps from upper New England (The Haunted Mansion) down through Philadelphia and Virginia (The Hall of Presidents) before heading west and transitioning to Frontierland at St. Louis (The Diamond Horseshoe). It then proceeds through the frontier territories, perhaps Kansas and Colorado, before arriving at cowboy vernacular architecture (Pecos Bill Cafe), then heading direct for the great Southwest pueblo architecture and monument valley (Big Thunder Mountain). This means that Splash Mountain's "deep south" is inserted directly into the section of the progression which once had a unified southwest and desert rock look. Lots of trees and an orange-red color help ease the intrusion, but an intrusion it indeed is."

I guess I could theme my riverfront land to something like New York, but even so, it would be a detour from the "upper New England" area of Liberty Square represented by the Haunted Mansion, especially since it's intrusive time-wise (20th century vs. 17th/18th century).

I don't have an answer. Just a stream of thought on the subject.

This area is a challenge thematically. Frontierland land evolves culturally and geographically clockwise. An area connecting the pre-Revolution Haunted Mansion along the Hudson River would also need to be able to somehow co-exist with a late 1800s mining railroad in Utah/Arizona.

An "ocean" past either one makes sense but would use up alot of space, spoil the river effect, would be difficult to navigate crowds in, and would require an open-air water ride.

Disneyland's Frontierland was to include River Town. Doing this would allow you to move the riverboat away from LS, where it doesn't fit with the colonial theme, to a turn off the century bustling all-American mini river port. In turn, LS could get it's own contexually appropriate sailing ship Columbia. When I hear River Town, I think Midwest (Cincinnati, Louisville, St. Louis). The only problem here is the Midwest US wouldn't fit geographically in this location and the architecture may look a little too similar to Main Street.

A natural North American forest theme could also work. A Native American/Pocahontas village theme could fit but may pose some PC concerns a la Disney's America. Also, Native American cultures varied greatly. Accuracy, sensitivity, and accusations of using stereotypes could be a big concern.

A less politically charged tie in to North America's pre-settlement beauty could be woodland animals/critters but that seems a little too Animal Kingdom and probably redundant given their presence in SM and CBJ.

Perhaps an American folklore theme would fit. It's unifying, relatable, and Disney does have some experience with them. Pecos Bill already has a presence so perhaps John Henry, Paul Bunyan, Johnny Appleseed, Casey Jones, Captain Stormalong, and popular characters from American literature (Ichabod Crane, Rip Van Winkle) need a place in the Magic Kingdom?

A turn of the century amusement park with a focus on the classic Disney characters could make some sense since DCA is losing their pier to the Pixar theme. The trap with this one is not making it look too cheap or tacky. Again, not really a match with the established thematic evolution of this area but it would give you a lot to work with.
 
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mharrington

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I don't have an answer. Just a stream of thought on the subject.

This area is a challenge thematically. Frontierland land evolves culturally and geographically clockwise. An area connecting the pre-Revolution Haunted Mansion along the Hudson River would also need to be able to somehow co-exist with a late 1800s mining railroad in Utah/Arizona.

An "ocean" past either one makes sense but would use up alot of space, spoil the river effect, would be difficult to navigate crowds in, and would require an open-air water ride.

Disneyland's Frontierland was to include River Town. Doing this would allow you to move the riverboat away from LS, where it doesn't fit with the colonial theme, to a turn off the century bustling all-American mini river port. In turn, LS could get it's own contexually appropriate sailing ship Columbia. When I hear River Town, I think Midwest (Cincinnati, Louisville, St. Louis). The only problem here is the Midwest US wouldn't fit geographically in this location and the architecture may look a little too similar to Main Street.

A natural North American forest theme could also work. A Native American/Pocahontas village theme could fit but may pose some PC concerns a la Disney's America. Also, Native American cultures varied greatly. Accuracy, sensitivity, and accusations of using stereotypes could be a big concern.

A less politically charged tie in to North America's pre-settlement beauty could be woodland animals/critters but that seems a little too Animal Kingdom and probably redundant given their presence in SM and CBJ.

Perhaps an American folklore theme would fit. It's unifying, relatable, and Disney does have some experience with them. Pecos Bill already has a presence so perhaps John Henry, Paul Bunyan, Johnny Appleseed, Casey Jones, Captain Stormalong, and popular characters from American literature (Ichabod Crane, Rip Van Winkle) need a place in the Magic Kingdom?

A turn of the century amusement park with a focus on the classic Disney characters could make some sense since DCA is losing their pier to the Pixar theme. The trap with this one is not making it look too cheap or tacky. Again, not really a match with the established thematic evolution of this area but it would give you a lot to work with.

You are absolutely right. It is very difficult to work in that area without creating mismatches. I was thinking of the pier idea, too, but again, cheapness notwithstanding, it's difficult to do given the Storybook Circus (almost the same thing) at the other end of the park. River Town and something about folk heroes both sound interesting, though. Wasn't Disneyland going to do something related to folk heroes, too?
 

SteamboatJoe

Well-Known Member
You are absolutely right. It is very difficult to work in that area without creating mismatches. I was thinking of the pier idea, too, but again, cheapness notwithstanding, it's difficult to do given the Storybook Circus (almost the same thing) at the other end of the park. River Town and something about folk heroes both sound interesting, though. Wasn't Disneyland going to do something related to folk heroes, too?

Not sure about Disneyland. I agree with your assessment about the pier idea.

Instead of a Midwestern river town, I am now envisioning a little coastal village which may or may not have a little fort near by (perhaps relocate Fort Langhorn?). The NE and NW coasts both were (are) well known for their fishing and logging industries so that would be the reason this little village exists on the banks the Rivers of America.

Disney's Paul Bunyan short has him being raised and starting his logging career in Maine and working his way across the country to California through the upper Midwest, Minnesota, the Dakotas, Colorado, and Wyoming . This same geographic progression would work in this area of the park. While the existing Frontierland generally proceeds southwest from colonial New York, down to Philadelphia, and then westward across the mid-section country and the deep south to Arizona; this area would proceed westward via the northern, more rugged woodlands. Again, like existing Frontierland, as one travels from east to west, the architecture of the village could potentially evolve in style. Paul would need a reason for cutting down all those trees, aside from aggressive expansionism, that does not conflict with Disney's message of environmental conservation. Perhaps Paul is only clearing some of the forest so the timber can be used to build homes for human and critter alike. Meanwhile, following behind, his friend, Johnny Appleseed, is planting apple trees so that the forest may re-grow with trees that will continue to provide food for the masses.

While this side of park already has two mountains, neither of them look like a traditional mountain form (think a smaller version of Matterhorn or Everest) so a third mountain in this vicinity housing one or more attractions could possibly make sense. It could maybe include a tunnel for the train carved out by John Henry. The train needs more visual interest and immersion along its route and this would help with that. I would also consider borrowing some of the visual elements recently installed along DL's train route, such as the waterfall.

That's all I can put together for now.
 
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Donaldb112

Member
I think adding a New Orleans Square themed section on the left side of said expansion pad would be great. I enjoy the immersiveness of it at Disneyland, and I think it would fit well in MK. It could house a Tiana/Naveen/Louis/Facilier (or any combination of the few) meet and greet, or possibly a Southern themed restaurant.

On the right side, accessible via pathway next to the Haunted Mansion queue, there could be a small section branching off the theming of the Haunted Mansion. They could easily do a Haunted Mansion themed restaurant, and even include some characters outside, ala Citizens of Hollywood.
 

Jedi Stitch

Well-Known Member
Interesting topic and a very many viewpoints. Please don't forget that comparing what has been done at DLR is based on space constrictions, and only two basically connected parks to work with, while MK has for the most part unlimited space at the moment. Tron coaster add on in Tomorrow land will expand the park on the right side, your idea of an expansion on the left side is nice. As you even posted that Splash Mountain is technically out of order in the space of rivers of America. So what ever land you add will need to reflect an Americana based themed to match the land theming. So, you could do a Pacific North West theme? You could make a Native American theme. Keep all the Disney Pals to Fantasy land and expand a third time for that.
 

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