What I think...as of today...for now...

[Tom]

Do my eyes deceive me or does this look like a tunnel?

Could very well be. It looks like an opening with concrete wall forms on the left, up against the pile of dirt.

It wouldn't surprise me if they extend or re-work the tunnels a little bit during this project. They've added quite a bit of "theme park" to the north of the old extents of FL.

However, since the new attraction (LM) and restaurants have perimeter access from backstage areas, tunnels may not be necessary.

 

[Timon]

Do my eyes deceive me or does this look like a tunnel?

You are correct. It's a new wall which appears to cover the exterior wardrobe sidewalk at tunnel level. Beyond that, I can't tell where they are going next?

It wouldn't surprise me if they extend or re-work the tunnels a little bit during this project. They've added quite a bit of "theme park" to the north of the old extents of FL.

The BatB restaurant has it's loading docks at tunnel level which implies at least a tunnel level receiving area, possibly food storage/kitchen, too. Whether they run a tunnel to the existing tunnels only WDI knows. The tunnel to the meet and greets, which was on the famous leaked plans I would guess is probably in question until that area is finalized.

 

[BrerFrog]

They sure are taking long to remove that arched wall from the Grotto.

Maybe they aren't. Remember when someone on this board (sorry I can't remember who exactly) said that filing for a renovation is much less expensive than filing for construction. They need to leave something up, so maybe they will use the arched wall for something. :shrug:

 

[Tom]

You are correct. It's a new wall which appears to cover the exterior wardrobe sidewalk at tunnel level. Beyond that, I can't tell where they are going next?

The BatB restaurant has it's loading docks at tunnel level which implies at least a tunnel level receiving area, possibly food storage/kitchen, too. Whether they run a tunnel to the existing tunnels only WDI knows. The tunnel to the meet and greets, which was on the famous leaked plans I would guess is probably in question until that area is finalized.

Since BatB's food areas are beyond the tunnel main entrance, to the north, perhaps they may have their own doors out into that area (where the CM bus drop-off is).

Their original tunnels were built using extremely sturdy construction (thick concrete walls, lots of rebar, etc) since they'd have to withstand constant lateral pressure from ground water and the forces exerted from whatever is above them (pavement, building, vehicles, etc). Building more tunnels could be almost cost-prohibitive today.

They'd also have to cut open the existing tunnels and compromise their waterproofing. That's like doing surgery on someone who doesn't really need it. If I were them, I'd be very hesitant to compromise the barrier and probably just leave the tunnels alone. But that's just me saying, "leave well enough alone."

Maybe they aren't. Remember when someone on this board (sorry I can't remember who exactly) said that filing for a renovation is much less expensive than filing for construction. They need to leave something up, so maybe they will use the arched wall for something. :shrug:

If they were talking about the cost of filing for building permits, they're right that a permit for new construction costs more than one for a remodel. However, the cost of a building permit should never been the determining factor in whether a commercial project moves forward or not. They'll spend more money on the paper they print all their blueprints on than they will/did for the building permit.

Besides, leaving one wall up doesn't constitute a "renovation". BatB and LM are both "new construction" by most jurisdictional definitions.

Also, I don't know how Orange County and RCID work, but many jurisdictions will charge a rate for the permit based on the cost of construction, while some charge based on the square footage of the new building.

 

[jt04]

Do my eyes deceive me or does this look like a tunnel?

The blueprints indicated an extension to the utilidors without need to compromise the original tunnel walls. Looks like they are following the blueprints exactly.

 

[SeaCastle]

Could very well be. It looks like an opening with concrete wall forms on the left, up against the pile of dirt.

It wouldn't surprise me if they extend or re-work the tunnels a little bit during this project. They've added quite a bit of "theme park" to the north of the old extents of FL.

However, since the new attraction (LM) and restaurants have perimeter access from backstage areas, tunnels may not be necessary.

You are correct. It's a new wall which appears to cover the exterior wardrobe sidewalk at tunnel level. Beyond that, I can't tell where they are going next?



The BatB restaurant has it's loading docks at tunnel level which implies at least a tunnel level receiving area, possibly food storage/kitchen, too. Whether they run a tunnel to the existing tunnels only WDI knows. The tunnel to the meet and greets, which was on the famous leaked plans I would guess is probably in question until that area is finalized.

For whatever is planned for the Cindy/Aurora M&G area, I would assume they would need some sort of tunnel access. If it would have been a meet and greet, they would need one for cast and such. If an attraction should be built there, perhaps they would need it for maintenance. It also seems to be nearly in the same location as the tunnel indicated in the blueprints.

 

[Tom]

The blueprints indicated an extension to the utilidors without need to compromise the original tunnel walls. Looks like they are following the blueprints exactly.

Which blueprints are you looking at?

(I'm not being sarcastic. I only have the original site plan that was released, and have never actually seen anything beyond that)

 

[jt04]

Which blueprints are you looking at?

(I'm not being sarcastic. I only have the original site plan that was released, and have never actually seen anything beyond that)

I don't have a copy. I believe it was on the second set that showed Dumbo next to the raceway. But they are hard to find. It was tough to see and I did not notice it until someone pointed it out but then it was clear. A tunnel to the cindy house was indicated and labled utilidor. Perhaps someone has a copy they can post.

Also, the walls appear to be up near the raceway for the clearing of trees and rerouting the track. So Dumbo seems a go.

 

[SeaCastle]

You can see the Utilidors in this image.

I haven't heard of a second set of leaked blueprints. Where did you see them?

 

[jt04]

You can see the Utilidors in this image.

I haven't heard of a second set of leaked blueprints. Where did you see them?

One set showed Dumbo in the north section of Fantasyland east. The next set showed Dumbo to the south near the raceway with PH where Dumbo was in the previous blueprint.

 

[SeaCastle]

One set showed Dumbo in the north section of Fantasyland east. The next set showed Dumbo to the south near the raceway with PH where Dumbo was in the previous blueprint.

For the second time, where did you see the blueprint with Dumbo by the Speedway?

 

[jt04]

For the second time, where did you see the blueprint with Dumbo by the Speedway?

Search is your friend. Or perhaps someone has it saved and will be kind and post it.

 

[Tom]

I don't have a copy. I believe it was on the second set that showed Dumbo next to the raceway. But they are hard to find. It was tough to see and I did not notice it until someone pointed it out but then it was clear. A tunnel to the cindy house was indicated and labled utilidor. Perhaps someone has a copy they can post.

Also, the walls appear to be up near the raceway for the clearing of trees and rerouting the track. So Dumbo seems a go.

I hope someone has a copy of this supposed second set. I'd be anxious to see those, because I only have a copy of what SeaCastle posted, plus a topographical plan that's based on the same layout.

Have they really put up walls at the north end of the speedway? Pics?

You can see the Utilidors in this image.

I haven't heard of a second set of leaked blueprints. Where did you see them?

Are you implying that the new tunnels are represented by the faint dashed lines heading northwest out of Cindy's toward BatB, which turn 90 and head southwest and then due west?

I also see a pair of them heading south from BELLE to the word WALL in CASTLE WALL.

We should also consider that they may be installing utility-only tunnels (not designed for staff) that carry branch piping out from the true Utilidors. They have banks of conduit and underground chases for utility piping all over the park, since the Utilidors don't literally pass under everything. The Utilidors house the mains and trunk lines, while concrete vaults and encasements (with man holes throughout the park for access) take branch utilities to the attractions and other locations.

Again, aerial shots would help identify what they're really building, because we could see how substantial the concrete wall work is in the areas supposedly getting new tunnels.

I'd love to see the drawing that JT is referring to.

 

[Tom]

Search is your friend. Or perhaps someone has it saved and will be kind and post it.

I just exhausted Google, and came up with only the plan SeaCastle posted.

 

[Timon]

Here is some highlighted areas for the guessing where/if a tunnel is added. Stairs may be a clue.

I found, what I am assuming to be a paste up by a fellow forum member. The Dumbo doesn't appear to scale.

 

[Tom]

Here is some highlighted areas for the guessing where/if a tunnel is added. Stairs may be a clue.

I found, what I am assuming to be a paste up by a fellow forum member. The Dumbo doesn't appear to scale.

I see it clear as day now, thank you! That's definitely a tunnel spur for the MnGs. The stairs are a dead giveaway too.

The second pic is definitely a fabrication. Maybe that's what JT saw.

 

[jt04]

I see it clear as day now, thank you! That's definitely a tunnel spur for the MnGs. The stairs are a dead giveaway too.

The second pic is definitely a fabrication. Maybe that's what JT saw.

Definitely not. It was an actual blueprint that matched the artwork that shows Dumbo next to the raceway.

Pics of the construction wall by the raceway are on two sites one of which can't be named.

I'm really starting to get the feeling they are going with the original blueprint, PH AND the minetrain.:shrug:

 

[SeaCastle]

Search is your friend. Or perhaps someone has it saved and will be kind and post it.

Sorry, I have to call your bluff on this one.

Now there, is another set of blueprints, as edwardtc said. However, they are for drainage use and show the same locations as the leaked one. I don't know how widespread those plans have been distributed since they were relatively difficult to find (edwardtc knows what I'm talking about) but they haven't been posted in entirety here.

Searching for the other blueprints on WDWMagic would be like finding entertainment on American Idol. Just by searching "blueprints", you'll have hundreds, if not thousands, of people just mentioning the word "blueprints", with most, if not all of them, referring to the leaked ones. I visit this forum several times a day, everyday. It would have been very, very difficult for me to miss a completely new set of posted blueprints. Seeing as I'm not the only regular poster who's never heard of these new leaked blueprints you're talking about, I can't assume they exist in the fan community.

I hope someone has a copy of this supposed second set. I'd be anxious to see those, because I only have a copy of what SeaCastle posted, plus a topographical plan that's based on the same layout.

Have they really put up walls at the north end of the speedway? Pics?

Not sure if it's related to the Expansion yet, but from Orlando Parks News:

Are you implying that the new tunnels are represented by the faint dashed lines heading northwest out of Cindy's toward BatB, which turn 90 and head southwest and then due west?

I also see a pair of them heading south from BELLE to the word WALL in CASTLE WALL.

We should also consider that they may be installing utility-only tunnels (not designed for staff) that carry branch piping out from the true Utilidors. They have banks of conduit and underground chases for utility piping all over the park, since the Utilidors don't literally pass under everything. The Utilidors house the mains and trunk lines, while concrete vaults and encasements (with man holes throughout the park for access) take branch utilities to the attractions and other locations.

Again, aerial shots would help identify what they're really building, because we could see how substantial the concrete wall work is in the areas supposedly getting new tunnels.

I'd love to see the drawing that JT is referring to.

That's the impression I was working under. I never noticed that second set of lines by the Castle Wall, however. I would imagine if those lines were for utility chases, there would be a lot more of them. What confuses me is that if that picture was indeed of a tunnel, how come we haven't seen any digging in that area, and that area is essentially a pile of dirt now?

 

[muteki]

I only remember the first set of blueprints (those already posted) from over a year ago. The only reference I have seen of Dumbo being south next to the TL Speedway was in the official artwork from D23 (released about a month or so after the blueprint leak). Those two being what was known at the time, I always thought the earlier blueprints took precedence over the artwork as to the location of Dumbo, because of the source. That, and it was fairly apparent that Dumbo wouldn't fit where it was located in the artwork with out some changing of either the speedway or barnstormer's positions.

So what is leading us to believe Dumbo is going to the south again? I always thought it was going to be to the north by the TT train station, as illustrated in the original blueprints.

 

[jt04]

There was two sets of blueprints showing Dumbo in two different places. Somewhat similar to the mock up but much more official looking.