What does WDW do during a Hard Frost?

joel_maxwell

Permanent Resident of EPCOT
Where the heaters were placed is a sorta tight area because of the enclosing foliage. Wind doesn't disturb the area as much. Those heaters are like jet engines on a stand. They throw a tremendous amount of heat. When walking past the heated area (we were directed to walk around behind the heaters without being close to them & mindful of the cords on the ground) it was quite a bit warmer than the open, non-heated area. It was pretty loud...but definitely warmer. We wanted to go wrap ourselves around the heaters. Lol!
You are right. These heaters are incredible. I walked to close to one once and it seriously singed my leg hairs. I bet in the canopy of trees of AK, I would imagine it helped a lot and obviously saved then trees.
 

sweetpee_1993

Well-Known Member
You are right. These heaters are incredible. I walked to close to one once and it seriously singed my leg hairs. I bet in the canopy of trees of AK, I would imagine it helped a lot and obviously saved then trees.

Yeah, those heaters were amazing. You could see the big flame inside. I can only liken it to seeing an afterburner on a jet engine. It was crazy. I have done some work on a natural gas terminal construction site where we had to lease really big equipment including portable a/c's, generators, heaters, etc. I know those industrial mega-heaters are expensive as all heck. What really impressed me was that all those heaters aren't leased. Animal Kingdom owns them. Their name is painted on each unit. That means they made that significant of an investment in equipment that is intended for a 'just in case' scenario. Yes, the need has been there this year & last but that frigid of weather is more an exception than a rule. So when you think about it, Disney has thought a lot thru that most folks would never even think possible and they've chosen to spend a pretty sizeable amount to prepare themselves for worst-cases that are pretty far out there. THAT is impressive to me.
 

Phonedave

Well-Known Member
I really doubt placing heaters really helped much.


You would be suprised. A difference of just a degree or two can be enough to save a plant. There are plenty of cases where trees in a hollow have died, while trees near the crest of a hill have survived a frost.

Fruit growers in Florida will spray their trees with water before a hard frost. When water freezes is releses heat. That miniscule amount of heat can be enought to save the crop.

I have early planted tomatoes in Northern NJ and kept the alive at night when we had hard frosts by putting paper grocery bags over them.

Thoese heaters just have to knock the air temp up by a few degrees.

The heated beds is an interesting idea. We used to run heated beds in our local greenhouse at one time. Of course they were indoors. Maybe the reason they dont have them at WDW is because of the cabling. The heater was like a big mat at the bottom of the bed (the beds were concrete seedling starting beds). I wonder if they would get damaged in an outdoor setting with mature plants like at WDW.

Plus they would not keep the leaves from freezing on the taller plants anyway.

-dave
 

photoflight

Well-Known Member
I was at EPCOT tonight. Most of the flower beds (or whatever else happens to be in some of those gardens) around the International Showcase and other areas were well covered with white fabric - as were the plants in front of Spaceship Earth. There was so much around the International Showcase area that someone said it made it look like it had snowed.

Tonight the temps are supposed to be in the mid-20s so a freeze, not just a frost is a reality.

I didn't take any pictures of the coverings specifically but...you can see some of them here:

Click to enlarge...
 

flavious27

Well-Known Member
I really doubt placing heaters really helped much.

Just a suggestion, there aren't many options for them when the jetstream is funneling Arctic Air into the parks. Like I asked earlier, what do they do in Tokyo and Paris because it annually snows at those parks.
 

Tom

Beta Return
We were there Jan 3-9, 2010 and also got to experience this first hand. We had never been so unprepared for a vacation in our lives. I saw the forecasts but thought, "Psssh. It's Florida, and I'm going from 0-degree Indiana. It can't REALLY be that cold." Shorts and a sweatshirt didn't cut it.

It was depressing to see them frantically covering all the plants. I think they lost a ton of them in Epcot, because they were literally ripping them out while we were in the park one day. Lots of the "Jack Frost" signs on property. A lot of the poinsettias - and several other plants - turned to "snot" after the front. Looked pitiful.

Horticulture did an awesome job though, as you can see in others' pics. They were extremely quick to cover things and save what they could. Other than the blankets on flower beds, there was little impact on the guests.
 

flavious27

Well-Known Member
Well yes and no...they don't want to do any nose-to-nose parking in the Contemporary for obvious reasons...and leaving them outside in the extreme cold could be troublesome when starting the trains in the morning. I mean it won't damage the trains...it's hard to explain but kinda like how a car needs to warm up in the extreme cold...well you can't really warm up a monorail but in the cold it's good for the trains to keep moving. I guess the best way I can describe it is like a diesel engine...in the extreme cold idling it would prevent the fuel from thickening up in the engine...but you can't really idle a monorail because there are hydraulic fluids in the train's drive system that circulates only when the train is in motion.

Almost would make sense to enlarge and enclose the stations at the TTC and EPCOT better to use as garages to keep the trains warm. But then once any permits go up there would be like 50 forums about definite plans for a monorail expansion.
 

flavious27

Well-Known Member
Yeah, those heaters were amazing. You could see the big flame inside. I can only liken it to seeing an afterburner on a jet engine. It was crazy. I have done some work on a natural gas terminal construction site where we had to lease really big equipment including portable a/c's, generators, heaters, etc. I know those industrial mega-heaters are expensive as all heck. What really impressed me was that all those heaters aren't leased. Animal Kingdom owns them. Their name is painted on each unit. That means they made that significant of an investment in equipment that is intended for a 'just in case' scenario. Yes, the need has been there this year & last but that frigid of weather is more an exception than a rule. So when you think about it, Disney has thought a lot thru that most folks would never even think possible and they've chosen to spend a pretty sizeable amount to prepare themselves for worst-cases that are pretty far out there. THAT is impressive to me.

I couldn't see disney not owning them, it would be critical equipment that they couldn't bet on a local business having working and in stock.
 

flavious27

Well-Known Member
You would be suprised. A difference of just a degree or two can be enough to save a plant. There are plenty of cases where trees in a hollow have died, while trees near the crest of a hill have survived a frost.

Fruit growers in Florida will spray their trees with water before a hard frost. When water freezes is releses heat. That miniscule amount of heat can be enought to save the crop.

I have early planted tomatoes in Northern NJ and kept the alive at night when we had hard frosts by putting paper grocery bags over them.

Thoese heaters just have to knock the air temp up by a few degrees.

The heated beds is an interesting idea. We used to run heated beds in our local greenhouse at one time. Of course they were indoors. Maybe the reason they dont have them at WDW is because of the cabling. The heater was like a big mat at the bottom of the bed (the beds were concrete seedling starting beds). I wonder if they would get damaged in an outdoor setting with mature plants like at WDW.

Plus they would not keep the leaves from freezing on the taller plants anyway.

-dave

I was thinking of the hot water systems that they use in basements to keep the floor and room warm. Disney's bean counters would need to find out if the cost of installing them would be more or less than the expenses to replace any dead plants and the cost to cover up the plants.
 

joel_maxwell

Permanent Resident of EPCOT
it was in jest, I doubt there is any intent besides that.
Yes, but a simple comment like that on a completely unrelated thread to political issues, can derail a thread faster than you can say Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious which only leads to a thread lock and no one wins.

Oh, this might make your postings a little easier on you, but the button to the right of the "Quote" button is a multi quote button. That way, you dont have to continue going back the previous page to quote/comment on someone, and, it cleans up the page a bit. :wave:
 

Monorail_Red

Well-Known Member
We were there Jan 3-9, 2010 and also got to experience this first hand.
That's around the time I started my college program. One morning I woke up and there was FROST on my windshield. Now being from New England I'm used to that kind of stuff but never would have thought I would see that in Florida.

So I went down to the Hess Express and asked if they had ice scrapers. They said to me "what's an ice scraper?" :shrug: :lol:

Almost would make sense to enlarge and enclose the stations at the TTC and EPCOT better to use as garages to keep the trains warm. But then once any permits go up there would be like 50 forums about definite plans for a monorail expansion.
Well it's only once or twice a year it gets THAT cold where they have to keep the stay-out trains moving. Plus the stations aren't long enough (the nose cones stick out of all the stations when parked) to enclose nor are they climate controlled.
 

flavious27

Well-Known Member
Yes, but a simple comment like that on a completely unrelated thread to political issues, can derail a thread faster than you can say Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious which only leads to a thread lock and no one wins.

Oh, this might make your postings a little easier on you, but the button to the right of the "Quote" button is a multi quote button. That way, you dont have to continue going back the previous page to quote/comment on someone, and, it cleans up the page a bit. :wave:

well as long as wdw magic's forums do not turn into a local newspaper's website.
 

flavious27

Well-Known Member
Well it's only once or twice a year it gets THAT cold where they have to keep the stay-out trains moving. Plus the stations aren't long enough (the nose cones stick out of all the stations when parked) to enclose nor are they climate controlled.

Well that is why I say they enlarge and enclose them. The need is not there if it only gets cold enough to have to protect them a couple times a year; if it is from dec - feb that they need to stay warm, then that might warrant them. though as I said, any new permits to the stations would send this site into a flurry because the implications could be an expansion of the monorail system. I think that the stations need to be refurbed at the TTC and EPCOT, they are showing their age.
 

raven

Well-Known Member
I really doubt placing heaters really helped much.

They are also used on some of the flower beds with topiaries that they cover with parachutes during the night. They kinda inflate when they do this and horticulture, normally arriving at 4AM, actually are there all night during these times to protect the plants.

Water fountains are also duct-taped on to keep the water from freezing in the pipes. Large fountains (like the Fountain of Nations) run all night as well in these temperatures.

Hosemen bypass bridges so they don't form ice. And after last weeks' little mishap with a morning CM, they now don't hose the monorail ramps during cold weather either. That actually could be fun though now that I think about it. :lol:
 

cblodg

Member
That's around the time I started my college program. One morning I woke up and there was FROST on my windshield. Now being from New England I'm used to that kind of stuff but never would have thought I would see that in Florida.

So I went down to the Hess Express and asked if they had ice scrapers. They said to me "what's an ice scraper?" :shrug: :lol:

155161_10150142523919535_808689534_8170456_5371160_n.jpg


That was taken last week on a bridge at SSR. The frost actually made the bridge slick and we had to tread carefully.

We were definitely not prepared for the cold weather (coming from NH we too thought it wouldn't be that cold). First stop in Animal Kingdom saw some of us buy hoodies, gloves, hats. The CMs commented that was the third time they had filled those racks and the hat my dad bought was the last one they had at their location.

RE: Monorails, I know there were several issues with the monorails on the express line from TTC to MK. Red sounded awful. Might not have been the cold though. I know Yellow was down for a while too.
 

flavious27

Well-Known Member
They are also used on some of the flower beds with topiaries that they cover with parachutes during the night. They kinda inflate when they do this and horticulture, normally arriving at 4AM, actually are there all night during these times to protect the plants.

Water fountains are also duct-taped on to keep the water from freezing in the pipes. Large fountains (like the Fountain of Nations) run all night as well in these temperatures.

Hosemen bypass bridges so they don't form ice. And after last weeks' little mishap with a morning CM, they now don't hose the monorail ramps during cold weather either. That actually could be fun though now that I think about it. :lol:

they hosed down a ramp in freezing weather? :brick:

I wonder if there is anything they could add to the water, that is non toxic, that would prevent it from freezing. I doubt that disney would add like 200 gallons of vodka to their fountains, because that would be frontpage news. Something that drops the freezing point a couple of degrees is all that is needed, if it gets down to single digits, disney would have alot more problems than the fountains' pipes freezing.
 

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