WFTV: Brawl between 3 guests at Epcot caught on video

[Lucky]

Sooo to put everything into perspective and set the record straight.

I know many people in that area of Future World East and worked at TT, so I know exactly who the CM is in that video and most of the details of what happened.

As far as to what happened, what some of you guessed is true: the fight started due to people cutting each other post-Design Studio. It's something that's been happening more and more lately at TT for some odd reason, but this is definitely the most extreme of the situation. They went at it for a good bit verbally before the physical part of the altercation came out, hence how the video was able to be shot.

Security was called in, but never showed up until 8 minutes in. It greatly saddens me that they took this long to get there, but it was a perfect storm of miscommunication that resulted in both management and security arriving later than anticipated. Even in regular emergency situations, there have been times where it's taken more than 5 minutes to get to the scene (waiting 10 minutes for Reedy Creek to show up when you have a girl that suddenly fell unconscious and is shaking all over isn't fun). Security followed them through but from what I've been told, weren't able to follow them after trailing both parties for a while.

In regards to the CM: He's a great guy. He's been with the company in the same area for several years and knows what he's doing. Going from personal experience, situations like these are not rare among us who work E-ticket rides. Granted, this is definitely one of the worst I've ever seen, but he's been at TT since the start of his career at WDW, so this isn't a new experience for him. It's also funny that some of you have been mentioning about being a teacher can help with these kinds of situations; he himself is actually a teacher at his regular job.

We're all worried right now as to what's going to happen with him (especially given the current state of the area), but everyone there is in agreement that he did the right thing. Did he touch the guest? By the video's details, obviously. Was it warranted? Absolutely. We're talking about not only two groups of people getting into it, but other guests surrounded on all sides of them that could've gotten injured, especially for the fact that a personal belonging was used as a weapon. As for him reaching out like that, you have to remember: that part of the queue is the bend right before you into Load. There's going to be many people behind, in front, and next to them. The fastest way to get through that area (and, in this case, your own personal protection) is to stay behind the railings in the Single Rider queue. It wasn't only a matter of protecting the other guests around him, but also self-defense.

What IS good news is that the manager on duty that night has experience from being in Security within WDW AND has previous law enforcement experience, so we're hoping that helps a lot from their own perspective.

Lastly on the question of whether or not we're trained to handle these kinds of situations: Not. at. all. We're only told to call a coordinator or manager when we feel that there is a possibility of something about to happen, if a situation is getting out of hand, etc, and then only call Security when absolutely needed. In the event of something like this happens, you try and get them to calm down and lead them away from other guests, but when it comes to large scale situations such as these, there isn't really a clear procedure in place.

Believe me when I say this: these kinds of things happen far more often than you realize.

Thanks for all of this inside info, as disturbing as it is.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Sooo to put everything into perspective and set the record straight.

I know many people in that area of Future World East and worked at TT, so I know exactly who the CM is in that video and most of the details of what happened.

As far as to what happened, what some of you guessed is true: the fight started due to people cutting each other post-Design Studio. It's something that's been happening more and more lately at TT for some odd reason, but this is definitely the most extreme of the situation. They went at it for a good bit verbally before the physical part of the altercation came out, hence how the video was able to be shot.

Security was called in, but never showed up until 8 minutes in. It greatly saddens me that they took this long to get there, but it was a perfect storm of miscommunication that resulted in both management and security arriving later than anticipated. Even in regular emergency situations, there have been times where it's taken more than 5 minutes to get to the scene (waiting 10 minutes for Reedy Creek to show up when you have a girl that suddenly fell unconscious and is shaking all over isn't fun). Security followed them through but from what I've been told, weren't able to follow them after trailing both parties for a while.

In regards to the CM: He's a great guy. He's been with the company in the same area for several years and knows what he's doing. Going from personal experience, situations like these are not rare among us who work E-ticket rides. Granted, this is definitely one of the worst I've ever seen, but he's been at TT since the start of his career at WDW, so this isn't a new experience for him. It's also funny that some of you have been mentioning about being a teacher can help with these kinds of situations; he himself is actually a teacher at his regular job.

We're all worried right now as to what's going to happen with him (especially given the current state of the area), but everyone there is in agreement that he did the right thing. Did he touch the guest? By the video's details, obviously. Was it warranted? Absolutely. We're talking about not only two groups of people getting into it, but other guests surrounded on all sides of them that could've gotten injured, especially for the fact that a personal belonging was used as a weapon. As for him reaching out like that, you have to remember: that part of the queue is the bend right before you into Load. There's going to be many people behind, in front, and next to them. The fastest way to get through that area (and, in this case, your own personal protection) is to stay behind the railings in the Single Rider queue. It wasn't only a matter of protecting the other guests around him, but also self-defense.

What IS good news is that the manager on duty that night has experience from being in Security within WDW AND has previous law enforcement experience, so we're hoping that helps a lot from their own perspective.

Lastly on the question of whether or not we're trained to handle these kinds of situations: Not. at. all. We're only told to call a coordinator or manager when we feel that there is a possibility of something about to happen, if a situation is getting out of hand, etc, and then only call Security when absolutely needed. In the event of something like this happens, you try and get them to calm down and lead them away from other guests, but when it comes to large scale situations such as these, there isn't really a clear procedure in place.

Believe me when I say this: these kinds of things happen far more often than you realize.

Thanks for the update.

8 minutes? Thats pretty awful considering the proximity TT is to the cast services building.

 

[t3techcom18]

Thanks for the update.

8 minutes? Thats pretty awful considering the proximity TT is to the cast services building.

Security itself is now HQ'ed at the old kennel actually, but it's true, it really is sad. We have those roaming Security folks around the entire park because it has them 'responding to the situation faster', but in the end, you just have a whole bunch of Security folks roaming around and when they get the call, they're completely desensitized to it. Many automatically think it's a little thing blown out of proportion and take a simple walk instead of hauling rear to get over there.

 

[Lucky]

I remember people posting in older threads that Disney had a lot of plainclothes security throughout the parks, who would be all over any situation. It always seemed like wishful thinking to me.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Security itself is now HQ'ed at the old kennel actually, but it's true, it really is sad. We have those roaming Security folks around the entire park because it has them 'responding to the situation faster', but in the end, you just have a whole bunch of Security folks roaming around and when they get the call, they're completely desensitized to it. Many automatically think it's a little thing blown out of proportion and take a simple walk instead of hauling rear to get over there.

I'm getting a sense of what the culture has become inside security and I'm not liking it.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I remember people posting in older threads that Disney had a lot of plainclothes security throughout the parks, who would be all over any situation. It always seemed like wishful thinking to me.

Different day and time. When I worked research, i knew who the undercover LPs were and occasionally I would have to discreetly ask them to go after a person. Once a guest let themselves in by hitting a command on the turnstyle and a second issue was when a husband raised his fist and acted like he was going to hit his wife. Tho that was 2004.

 

[englanddg]

Sometimes fights or other incidents can go on for awhile without any CM's being able to do much about it, or security even arriving at all. In this situation from Disneyland back in April, the CM's were helpless to resolve anything, and without the aid of security, they had to pretty much stand aside & let the idiocy calm itself down. When chaos has the numbers & the upper hand, sometimes all you can do is let chaos run it's course.

Edit: And if you notice around 2:05 into the video, a guest in a black jacket tries to seek safety by hiding from the fight behind two CM's. Yet the CM's eventually just walk away, allowing the blonde-haired aggressor to run up & try to clobber the woman seeking safety. Security never arrived.

The blond haired lady with the sparkly shirt sortof resembles Caitlyn Jenner.

Also that video would be a million times better if it were put to Yakety Sax.

 

[englanddg]

I'm getting a sense of what the culture has become inside security and I'm not liking it.

 

[bhg469]

The blond haired lady with the sparkly shirt sortof resembles Caitlyn Jenner.

Also that video would be a million times better if it were put to Yakety Sax.

Wouldn't they all?! Benny Hill had that figured out!/

 

[tissandtully]

Sorry to take this off-topic but I don't understand the moderation of this board, I had a comment removed that may have seemed I guess crass to someone who didn't know what the Disney version of the acronym stood for. Do we think children read this board about the latest board and business decisions by the Walt Disney company? Why are rather benign posts removed when there isn't a complaint? I know I can go somewhere else obviously but I think there needs to be a serious discussion about who really thinks we need the heavy handed comment moderation, I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

 

[tissandtully]

Sooo to put everything into perspective and set the record straight.

I know many people in that area of Future World East and worked at TT, so I know exactly who the CM is in that video and most of the details of what happened.

As far as to what happened, what some of you guessed is true: the fight started due to people cutting each other post-Design Studio. It's something that's been happening more and more lately at TT for some odd reason, but this is definitely the most extreme of the situation. They went at it for a good bit verbally before the physical part of the altercation came out, hence how the video was able to be shot.

Security was called in, but never showed up until 8 minutes in. It greatly saddens me that they took this long to get there, but it was a perfect storm of miscommunication that resulted in both management and security arriving later than anticipated. Even in regular emergency situations, there have been times where it's taken more than 5 minutes to get to the scene (waiting 10 minutes for Reedy Creek to show up when you have a girl that suddenly fell unconscious and is shaking all over isn't fun). Security followed them through but from what I've been told, weren't able to follow them after trailing both parties for a while.

In regards to the CM: He's a great guy. He's been with the company in the same area for several years and knows what he's doing. Going from personal experience, situations like these are not rare among us who work E-ticket rides. Granted, this is definitely one of the worst I've ever seen, but he's been at TT since the start of his career at WDW, so this isn't a new experience for him. It's also funny that some of you have been mentioning about being a teacher can help with these kinds of situations; he himself is actually a teacher at his regular job.

We're all worried right now as to what's going to happen with him (especially given the current state of the area), but everyone there is in agreement that he did the right thing. Did he touch the guest? By the video's details, obviously. Was it warranted? Absolutely. We're talking about not only two groups of people getting into it, but other guests surrounded on all sides of them that could've gotten injured, especially for the fact that a personal belonging was used as a weapon. As for him reaching out like that, you have to remember: that part of the queue is the bend right before you into Load. There's going to be many people behind, in front, and next to them. The fastest way to get through that area (and, in this case, your own personal protection) is to stay behind the railings in the Single Rider queue. It wasn't only a matter of protecting the other guests around him, but also self-defense.

What IS good news is that the manager on duty that night has experience from being in Security within WDW AND has previous law enforcement experience, so we're hoping that helps a lot from their own perspective.

Lastly on the question of whether or not we're trained to handle these kinds of situations: Not. at. all. We're only told to call a coordinator or manager when we feel that there is a possibility of something about to happen, if a situation is getting out of hand, etc, and then only call Security when absolutely needed. In the event of something like this happens, you try and get them to calm down and lead them away from other guests, but when it comes to large scale situations such as these, there isn't really a clear procedure in place.

Believe me when I say this: these kinds of things happen far more often than you realize.

Wow, appreciate the update.

 

[s8film40]

Welcome to the thunder dome, just let the customers fight to the death.

So if CM's can do nothing then where exactly is this mythical and never seen security Disney has?? I think you folks think Disney is much safer then it really is. It's a simple mob rule kind of place, the crowd fights till someone wins.

Yes and even security CM's are not allowed to get involved. However it is impressive what can be done without actually using force if you know how to handle a situation.

I was at DTD once and saw a fight in the parking lot, this was a REAL fight punches and heads being pounded into the ground etc. Some guests ran up to the security guard in his vehicle he refused to do anything at all, wouldn't get out of the vehicle and just called it in on his radio. A few moments later a bicycle security CM raced up threw his bike down and started yelling at them, this managed to break up the fight. It was impressive what he was able to do without touching or even getting close, probably because he created the illusion that he could get physical even though he couldn't.

 

[Arthur Wellesley]

Yes and even security CM's are not allowed to get involved. However it is impressive what can be done without actually using force if you know how to handle a situation.

I was at DTD once and saw a fight in the parking lot, this was a REAL fight punches and heads being pounded into the ground etc. Some guests ran up to the security guard in his vehicle he refused to do anything at all, wouldn't get out of the vehicle and just called it in on his radio. A few moments later a bicycle security CM raced up threw his bike down and started yelling at them, this managed to break up the fight. It was impressive what he was able to do without touching or even getting close, probably because he created the illusion that he could get physical even though he couldn't.

So all security can do is yell at you?? Interesting.

Next time someone plans a riot, they need to have it in Adventureland rather than some city street. It truly is amazing what one can get away with while visiting the Mouse...

 

[PhotoDave219]

Sorry to take this off-topic but I don't understand the moderation of this board, I had a comment removed that may have seemed I guess crass to someone who didn't know what the Disney version of the acronym stood for. Do we think children read this board about the latest board and business decisions by the Walt Disney company? Why are rather benign posts removed when there isn't a complaint? I know I can go somewhere else obviously but I think there needs to be a serious discussion about who really thinks we need the heavy handed comment moderation, I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

Oddly, i find they don't moderate enough in some cases. FWIW I had no problem with your remark.

Alas, its been explained to me many times that this is a family forum and I should choose my words/thoughts much more carefully or simply start ignoring the poster.

 

[tissandtully]

Oddly, i find they don't moderate enough in some cases. FWIW I had no problem with your remark.

Alas, its been explained to me many times that this is a family forum and I should choose my words/thoughts much more carefully or simply start ignoring the poster.

This will be my last comment on this to prevent further derailment but I'm fine with moderation to keep things civil, but language moderation seems a bit much when there are only adults on this board. I can take this to another thread if anyone else agrees with me.

 

[lazyboy97o]

So all security can do is yell at you?? Interesting.

Next time someone plans a riot, they need to have it in Adventureland rather than some city street. It truly is amazing what one can get away with while visiting the Mouse...

Having the numbers is everything.

Security not being allowed to touch people is nothing unique to Disney. In a few cases it turns out poorly but for many more it would simply escalate situations. Disney's issues with failure to maintain standards of conduct are much bigger than the response to physical altercations.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Security not being allowed to touch people is nothing unique to Disney.

It may not be unique to Disney but a friendly warning to all who visit Vegas, security here is allowed to use equal force, that could mean anything from politely escorting someone to their room if they are being polite to physically tackling and restraining someone who is combative. I've seen several people who tried to fight security end up leaving in an ambulance with a police escort, security does everything they can to avoid physical altercations (usually by numbers and show of force) but I love that security here isn't handcuffed with ridiculous rules that prevent them from keeping the public safe when things happen quickly and they can't respond with numbers.

 

[englanddg]

It may not be unique to Disney but a friendly warning to all who visit Vegas, security here is allowed to use equal force, that could mean anything from politely escorting someone to their room if they are being polite to physically tackling and restraining someone who is combative. I've seen several people who tried to fight security end up leaving in an ambulance with a police escort, security does everything they can to avoid physical altercations (usually by numbers and show of force) but I love that security here isn't handcuffed with ridiculous rules that prevent them from keeping the public safe when things happen quickly and they can't respond with numbers.

True, but Vegas doesn't exactly have the same style of reputation that Disney does. Bad press about a drunk getting kicked out of a casino for fondling a lady and being obnoxious doesn't have quite the same impact as "I took my kids to Disney and the security guard roughed me up!"...

That said, it does seem ridiculous.

 

[xdan0920]

Sorry to take this off-topic but I don't understand the moderation of this board, I had a comment removed that may have seemed I guess crass to someone who didn't know what the Disney version of the acronym stood for. Do we think children read this board about the latest board and business decisions by the Walt Disney company? Why are rather benign posts removed when there isn't a complaint? I know I can go somewhere else obviously but I think there needs to be a serious discussion about who really thinks we need the heavy handed comment moderation, I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

There doesn't need to be that discussion. Wether or not kids populate these boards is irrelevant. Steve wants his boards run a certain way, thats that. Also, how do you know no one complained about your language?

Oddly, i find they don't moderate enough in some cases. FWIW I had no problem with your remark.

Alas, its been explained to me many times that this is a family forum and I should choose my words/thoughts much more carefully or simply start ignoring the poster.

Give me a break. You've appointed yourself the on topic police. You want the moderators to make sure threads you participate in stay on whatever topics you deem worth discussing. Meanwhile, your fake ladies man act pushes the boundaries of decency past their breaking points.

 

[unkadug]

Sorry to take this off-topic but I don't understand the moderation of this board, I had a comment removed that may have seemed I guess crass to someone who didn't know what the Disney version of the acronym stood for. Do we think children read this board about the latest board and business decisions by the Walt Disney company? Why are rather benign posts removed when there isn't a complaint? I know I can go somewhere else obviously but I think there needs to be a serious discussion about who really thinks we need the heavy handed comment moderation, I'm sure I'm not alone in this.

This will be my last comment on this to prevent further derailment but I'm fine with moderation to keep things civil, but language moderation seems a bit much when there are only adults on this board. I can take this to another thread if anyone else agrees with me.

That's probably best.

This thread is NOT read by ONLY adults. That is why it was moderated. And to answer your question...threads generally get moderated when there is a complaint.