Were the lines really shorter back in the day or do we imagine this?

[Walt Disney1955]

Came back from a trip and it got me thinking a bit. We went to Epcot and Magic Kingdom and I don't think you can pick a day anymore at Magic Kingdom that isn't busy. I think it is inevitable. Epcot wasn't bad, other than Test Track and Frozen being consistently long all day. Magic Kingdom was busy. We never got on Peter Pan and the Mine Train. That was it though. Other than that we hit the core of the rides, even if it took 13 hours and rushing to Space Mountain after the fireworks. Thunder Mountain was just 20-25 minutes and Splash was 50 minutes. We were unable to get a fast pass for either. Pirates was quick and we hit the Haunted Mansion early and had a fast pass for Jungle Cruise. The rest of the stuff was moderate I guess you can say. No one normally waits long for Tiki Birds or things like that so we did what we wanted to do.

Here is the question though.................were lines always this long? Has fastpass sort of ruined things by making some of the big lines even more unbearable on the big rides? It got me thinking, I can remember back in the 1990s always waiting 20-25 minutes for Thunder Mountain prior to fastpasses. Is it our imagination that they were shorter? Were they actually?

A couple of things come to mind for me. I always remember practically walking on Small World and Jungle Cruise back in the 1990s. Now Small World actually has a line. I guess Peter Pan was always busy but did I wait 45+ minutes for it? Not that I remember. Or am I wrong? Were the lines still long then and we are just looking at things with rose colored glasses? I can go only go back to the 1990s but what about people who visited in the 1970s? Were the lines long then when you look at things objectively?

 

[sxeensweet]

There was less people in the parks back then than now on most days. Attendance has increased each year. So lines will increase too.

 

[Jon81uk]

Standby lines are longer because of FastPass, but the parks are also busier, attendance has increased pretty much every single year.

 

[John park hopper]

Been going since 1972 and yes the parks have gotten more crowded with each passing year. The Florida and US population keeps growing simply more people to go.

 

[marni1971]

Quite a few attractions had higher capacity too, and the majority of rides were so managed that the line kept shuffling steadily forwards for the most part. Yes, there were long lines depending on the time of year but you rarely stood on the same spot for long.

 

[winstongator]

I do have a better capacity to handle them now, but my two memories from trips as a kid were unbearable lines and hearing my parents complain about how expensive everything was.

I waited over 2 hrs for FoP, but besides that, in 3 years as a passholder we rarely waited in long lines. We used fp and rope dropped. Would catch rides when they were less busy = mine train not backed up all the way to first fp tapstiles, might not be the 90 min posted wait. Rope drop plus three early fp can get you 6 rides by lunch, at that point many my kids want to swim. I did one Epcot day with them where we rope dropped frozen, explored world showcase with my parents, met a friend and his daughters who were a little younger than mine, and ended up staying till Illuminations. Saturday at f&w, so huge local crowd. The Epcot parking lot filled. If I asked my daughters what they remember, it won’t be waiting in lines. We went at mostly busy times: thanksgiving, spring break, other holidays, and summer. How a passholder who lives 3 hours away tours the parks is much different than a once a lifetime visit or once a year visitors.

 

[marni1971]

One of my fondest memories is late June 1990. Journey into Imagination. A ride so designed to continuously load. The queue began outside, the switchbacks ran from the entrance to the bathrooms again and again. Then it went into the foyer and circled around the front of the spiral staircase before heading towards load.

And it kept moving forwards. We didn’t stop. Even mum mentioned it. The parks were renowned for handling huge amounts of people. It was an art.

 

[Shouldigo12]

Yes, the lines are probably larger. There's more people visiting the parks, so it only makes sense that lines would be longer (especially considering the fact that for a decade there, there wasn't much growth in parks). Nostalgia can play around with our memories, but that doesn't mean memories are entirely inaccurate.

 

[smile]

One of my fondest memories is late June 1990. Journey into Imagination. A ride so designed to continuously load. The queue began outside, the switchbacks ran from the entrance to the bathrooms again and again. Then it went into the foyer and circled around the front of the spiral staircase before heading towards load.

And it kept moving forwards. We didn’t stop. Even mum mentioned it. The parks were renowned for handling huge amounts of people. It was an art.

got in line so far away from wom we could barely see the building - and my lad self was initially saddened...
yet, while i remember it being one of the lengthiest queues i've ever stood in, i recall my elation it constantly moved as a grand example of a frown turned upside down

 

[Lou Filerman]

They keep building more and more hotels, but no 5th gate....it will only get worse. This is why i’m a fan of price increases, though they don’t seem to be working for what I want them to work for.

 

[DisneyJoe]

They keep building more and more hotels, but no 5th gate....it will only get worse. This is why i’m a fan of price increases, though they don’t seem to be working for what I want them to work for.

Onsite hotels are not solely responsible for park crowds - there are hundreds of off-site locations that drive attendance too.

Yes, on-site resorts contribute to bus and emh crowds.

 

[Lensman]

In a related question, I was wondering whether you folks thought more people were going on attractions more than once more often? We tend to be "once per trip" people and don't do re-rides very much, but I've noticed that a lot of re-riding in the trip reports.

Part of the contributing factors for us might be the amount of time we spent eating at table service restaurants as well as the hours spent staking out spots for the parades and fireworks.

Anyway, I was wondering if increased re-rides might be a contributing factor to the lines beyond the obvious increased attendance, the increased Fastpass allocations, and the lower capacity of the newer attractions.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

In a related question, I was wondering whether you folks thought more people were going on attractions more than once more often? We tend to be "once per trip" people and don't do re-rides very much, but I've noticed that a lot of re-riding in the trip reports.

Part of the contributing factors for us might be the amount of time we spent eating at table service restaurants as well as the hours spent staking out spots for the parades and fireworks.

Anyway, I was wondering if increased re-rides might be a contributing factor to the lines beyond the obvious increased attendance, the increased Fastpass allocations, and the lower capacity of the newer attractions.

Before the rubber ankle bracelets were rolled out...we did repeats fairly often.

It’s now a complete rarity. The new “great” system has resulted in a +/- 30 minute wait for everything on average and that kills repeated for me.

Did I used to go on haunted mansion twice when it had a “13 minute” wait? Sure...all the time.

I won’t even go once when it’s 40...that’s a big part of the lack of proper investment in the parks and the burn.

What was billed as a “convenience” system is a ride rationing system that can’t be hidden. And that was to cover the cost of a network and Wifi upgrade...funny how that happens.

 

[KBLovedDisney]

One of my fondest memories is late June 1990. Journey into Imagination. A ride so designed to continuously load. The queue began outside, the switchbacks ran from the entrance to the bathrooms again and again. Then it went into the foyer and circled around the front of the spiral staircase before heading towards load.

And it kept moving forwards. We didn’t stop. Even mum mentioned it. The parks were renowned for handling huge amounts of people. It was an art.

I remember those days. That was the time that you wished the line actually slowed down some so you could enjoy the surroundings of the queues more...well, at least that is how it was for me in JII. That building was so beautiful with that wonderful artwork of Dreamfinder and Figment.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Yes the lines were shorter! The Fast Pass Plus system CREATED the long standby lines we see today. Before Fast Pass Plus there were such a thing as Attractions that DID NOT HAVE/NEED Fast Passes. Attractions like Space Ship Earth, Pirates of the Caribbean, were NON Fast Pass Attractions and were usually "walk on" with very low wait times.

When the Fast Pass Plus system came along, Disney could not have only the small handful of attractions that previously used the old paper Fast Pass system, so they FORCED ALL attractions to be Fast Pass attractions. This created an ARTIFICIAL DEMAND for ALL attractions, even the ones that were walk on, like Space Ship Earth.

Before Fast Pass Plus it was rare to see the outside queue of SSE completely full, today is common place!

 

[Goofyernmost]

One of the reasons why I so often curse the day that FP was invented. Yes we had long lines, but, psychologically it was a much more relaxing experience then the current fiasco. We kept moving, we continuously weaved back and forth in the switchback lines, meeting face with other people in the same line, but, always moving and, as I have said so often, when we got to the front we were next. It got to be a game after awhile. We joked back and forth with the others in the line. Shared misery made it much more palatable. You didn't have to have something to keep the kids amused because you just kept moving. No large crowd of people "cutting" ahead just when you were about to ride. It was less frustrating, but, you knew everyone was having to deal with the same thing. If you saw that the line was too long you just went to another and came back later. Now you are trapped. You know the line isn't ever going to get reasonable so you are stuck there standing still most of the time watching the gloating group pass by you.

It is true that the overall census was smaller but, there weren't four parks to spread them out in at the time. I don't notice that the crowds are any bigger now then they were back then. But, the system is awful and has been around too long to be thrown out now. In my mind, it started the anger mode in the parks that never existed previous to that. It was just better and the reason why we went back year after year. I have to wonder if the return visit situation has dropped after a couple of experiences of standing still are realized as being normal. The introduction of FP started my decline in going as often as I once did. It sucked the fun out of it. Crowds along with FP have resulted in long, long lines. If you need proof that even Disney realizes the folly of FP, lately some new attractions now are opened without any FP at all. A line that keeps moving generates very few displays of anger. A stagnant line creates all kinds of problems. We are all still human.

In short, the lines may have seemed longer, but, the time in the line was much less. It was fair because you could easily gauge how long the wait would be, you could plan your stay quickly and just plain enjoyed the time much more. If they created FP to get people to spend more time spending money in the shops they were wrong. Everyone in the standby line now has far less time to shop then the overall crowd had without it.

If FP continues it is necessary then it should be a sold pass and one that charges a significant amount to keep the masses away from it. That would speed up the standby line considerably and ease the frustration knowing that those that are still using it have paid an arm and a leg for the privilege. Of course, the best thing would just to end it completely. First come, first served still works the best.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Yes and No. Way back in the early 70's, the Haunted Mansion and Pirates both used to get long lines, but you could also say Big Thunder didn't even exist. 20,000 Leagues always had long waits. Roughly the same area then became a playground. People now experience long waits on roughly the same ground: Seven Dwarfs!

It is kind of comparing apples to oranges to say that waits are longer or shorter.

Beyond crowd levels, I think you also have to consider park hours. Over the years they have varied quite a bit. Are we talking about Small World at 11AM, or are we walking Small World at 11PM?

You also have to consider crowds as they relate to time of year, because that has also fluctuated considerably over the years.

Then there was the impact of 9/11 and fluctuations in the economy.

There have also been massive changes to dining over the years, and how much time people spend on meals each day. Table service dining takes time, especially when you include travel time. So that too has fluctuated quite a bit over the years. Quick serve, offsite, onsite table service, onsite signature dining, breakfast in the hotel room/on-the-go granola bars, etc. We went from eating cereal in our hotel room, to long character breakfasts for a time. We've sometimes lost over an hour of our day just waiting for our table to be ready!

Let us also not forget the time when people often waited 4+ hours to see Anna + Elsa! That line has gotten much shorter.

 

[BoarderPhreak]

The lines back then ranged from non-existant to "holy moly!" - but life was easy. You wanted on a ride? Get on line. No FP, no Rider Swap, no planning (online). Show and go! But even the worse lines seemed to be "not too bad" because it was Disney - and nobody does queues like Disney*. But an hour on line? Two? Sure, it happened. But that's no worse than say, FOP at HS today.

Then the crowds (and lines) got worse. Disney had to do something. No we have Single Rider lines. Fastpasses. All sorts of mental gymnastics to see who's going where and when and how many Tier 1/2 FPs have been reserved, yada yada yada.

* World of Motion was quite interesting back in the early days. 20k too. Stand in the FL sun and bake while you wait...

 

[marni1971]

20,000 Leagues always had long waits..

20K was a notorious slow load.

 

[dieboy]

It all boils down to some kind of simple math. As park attendance increases, and no real rides are added, the waits will simply get longer and longer.

WDW has tried to manage this with the FP system, and such. But the reality of it is, there are physically to many people for the amount of attractions. No sly manipulation (filling afternoons with 'dance parties', etc) will fix this problem either.

I feel they are simply going to ride it to implosion. I don't think attendance has really dropped in many many years, and to the board, that is a sign they are doing things right. It will take, a serious drop in attendance for WDW to really consider making changes for the better. Unfortunately, as I've stated before, i think that will be years upon years off, with the 50th coming up, SWL, Tron, Galaxies, etc etc.