Were the lines really shorter back in the day or do we imagine this?

[KBLovedDisney]

I'm not sure I agree with that. I would ride Space Mountain all the time if it were a 10 minute wait.

We know Space Mountain had long queues before FastPass, so I believe the ride itself stands on its own.

People are already inside the parks...I don't think Disney cares if you ride something or not. In fact, they'd probably rather you spend money elsewhere (which is the real reason Fastpass was invented, so you didn't waste your time in lines).

Didn't Space Mountain utilize both sides for the queue line prior to FastPasses? (Think this might have been before the 2009 refurb). When both sides were used for regular queue, the lines flowed better. Now, you have one side barely used because of FastPasses it seems, and the other Standby line is always over 80 minutes or so.

Ugh. I miss those days. I also miss pre-2009 Space Mountain.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Didn't Space Mountain utilize both sides for the queue line prior to FastPasses? (Think this might have been before the 2009 refurb). When both sides were used for regular queue, the lines flowed better. Now, you have one side barely used because of FastPasses it seems, and the other Standby line is always over 80 minutes or so.

Ugh. I miss those days. I also miss pre-2009 Space Mountain.

I am remembering back even earlier where I think there was literally a single line (the other side was routinely not used) and it split at the tracks to Alpha and Omega. I remember waiting outside Space Mountain when the wait was ~90 minutes or so. It usually took 30 min to get to the track area and 60 minutes to go through the maze of back and forth when SpaceMountain TV played on the monitors.

 

[beertiki]

There were a couple times this year where the People Mover had a 25 minute wait. In 20 years I had never seen it above 15 min.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I don't know that I agree. It is also addictive to dodge a long wait. Many people like the rush they get from that kind of experience as well.

It is a little like gambling: sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose.

Most people actually enjoy complaining. A story isn't a story unless it has a conflict. We want our vacations to be adventures. We enjoy talking about our problems.

Case in point: Is somebody forcing us to post here?

I don't know what you are smoking, but, would you mind sharing some of it? I don't mind you or others getting a rush out of whatever turns you on, but, not if it is at my expense. Seriously though, the rush that one gets out of pushing ahead of others and the feeling of winning is quickly canceled out if we figure in the extra time spent in standby in the attractions where they can't get a FP. People may think that they are zooming through the park, but, the chances are they are actually seeing less of it because of that small victory of a few attractions.

Fastpass = greater DEMAND. (as in, Supply and Demand)

Fastpass = bandwagon = a very effective form of advertising.

That is the purpose of Fastpass. Disney has used it very effectively in recent years. Seven Dwarfs isn't a great ride, but the demand is super. Fastpass helped Disney to create demand for it.

Fastpass = Perceived greater DEMAND. (as in, Supply and Demand) At this point nothing more then smoke and mirrors directed at those new visitors that don't know any better. And almost all rides are FP now, so does that mean that everyone is worthy of demand.
Fastpass = bandwagon = a very effective deceptive form of advertising.

As far as 7DMT is concerned, Fastpass had nothing to do with it's popularity. It was a new ride after a long drought and just because you didn't like it doesn't mean other don't. It is a fun little ride and a combination coaster and dark ride. Many think it is a great ride. The length of it has no bearing on quality and enjoyment.

 

[Goofyernmost]

There were a couple times this year where the People Mover had a 25 minute wait. In 20 years I had never seen it above 15 min.

I've never seen it when I didn't just get right on it over the past 35 years. Once when it had a minor stoppage there was a small line, but as soon as it started up again, it was a walk on.

 

[SteamboatJoe]

In 1993, I waited nearly 40 minutes for Splash Mountain but it was a hot day in the peak season of July and Splash was relatively new. I can remember my dad chatting up a guy behind us from England to pass the time.

 

[Professortango1]

So by that thought, removing SDMT, adding the rest, and then tossing on six more rides at 25minutes a piece, you will have spent nearly 6hrs of your day waiting in line. Keep in mind total time added is for 10 rides. I don't think ten rides in a day is to much to ask when gate costs are over one hundred dollars. So .. 100 bucks, 10 rides, and six hours of waiting in line. When you start to break it down like that, it doesn't seem so enticing.

We're talking 25 minutes or less for other rides. And if you look at it by park, that's less than 2 hours of long waits and 0-25 minutes for everything else. Epcot, almost everything is a walk on except Test Track and Soarin'. Disney Studios only has a few attractions and the wait was minimal for Star Tours and TOT and non-existent for Muppets and the shows. Everything in Animal Kingdom was a walk on, including Everest. So....if you spend one day per park like most do, you can easily ride quite a bit in a day. We did everything and were usually killing time in the late afternoon/early evening while waiting for nighttime spectaculars. With AK, we ended up leaving before dark because we were getting so tired of re-riding everything while waiting for Rivers of Light.

 

[Willmark]

It all boils down to some kind of simple math. As park attendance increases, and no real rides are added, the waits will simply get longer and longer.

Absolutely, one of the main problems and one the reasons were tapping out after this December.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

People are already inside the parks...I don't think Disney cares if you ride something or not. In fact, they'd probably rather you spend money elsewhere (which is the real reason Fastpass was invented, so you didn't waste your time in lines).

Nobody would go to WDW if they didn't have exciting things to do. If nobody rode any attractions WDW wouldn't stay open very long. They need to have customers using the products they offer.

They don't want us to finish everything too quickly; because then we'd leave. We would eat our meals offsite, and that would be bad.

Mostly though, Fast pass helps Disney control demand, and to regulate flow.

I don't just mean overall demand, I also mean Fastpass helps to regulate demand on an hourly basis. Think about it.

Without FP, where would guests go every morning when the park opens? FP helps Disney to control guest distribution.

Further, the newest version of FP vastly improves Disney's ability to regulate waits and control guest distribution far better than old FP. If a queue gets too short, the system just spits out 100 FP, and suddenly the back side of the park has a nice number of guests again.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Nobody would go to WDW if they didn't have exciting things to do. If nobody rode any attractions WDW wouldn't stay open very long. They need to have customers using the products they offer.

They don't want us to finish everything too quickly; because then we'd leave. We would eat our meals offsite, and that would be bad.

Mostly though, Fast pass helps Disney control demand, and to regulate flow.

I don't just mean overall demand, I also mean Fastpass helps to regulate demand on an hourly basis. Think about it.

Without FP, where would guests go every morning when the park opens? FP helps Disney to control guest distribution.

Further, the newest version of FP vastly improves Disney's ability to regulate waits and control guest distribution far better than old FP. If a queue gets too short, the system just spits out 100 FP, and suddenly the back side of the park has a nice number of guests again.

That's all true, but they aren't hyping attractions with FP. I just don't think that makes sense and we know there were long lines before FP too.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I don't mind you or others getting a rush out of whatever turns you on, but, not if it is at my expense. Seriously though, the rush that one gets out of pushing ahead of others and the feeling of winning is quickly canceled out if we figure in the extra time spent in standby in the attractions where they can't get a FP. People may think that they are zooming through the park, but, the chances are they are actually seeing less of it because of that small victory of a few attractions.

fun fact: I didn't say I got a rush.

Seriously, have you never heard of Pavlovian theory?

People don't act rationally. They act emotionally. Disney wants to promote a conditioned response, not a rational one in their customers. FP gives their customers a rush. It has nothing to do with how long anyone else waits.

 

[Hockey89]

This is not even a debate.... I used to go in Aug for a few years and pretty much walked on most rides... I remember doing Aero Smith and walking on the ride... That is not the case ever anymore...

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

That's all true, but they aren't hyping attractions with FP.

Er, really?

Per the WDW website:

"A priceless perk."
"Imagine having the freedom to choose from over 60 of your favorite WDW experiences- with the flexibility to change your plans at any time-from anywhere!"
"for one park per day of your visit, secure up to 3 FP selections for popular attractions..."

Sounds like hyping to me.

 

[disneyflush]

Lines were certainly comparable but the impartiality of the 'absolute line' (no shortcuts) didn't leave much room for argument or interpretation which kept a lot of feelings out of it. I don't think the new way is all bad and I don't think the old way was all good. Cram more people in a space and you'll need to figure out a new way to distribute them unless you increase the size of your space. FP+ is likely one of the most variably tuned parts of Disney behind the scenes. Its not a set it and forget it mechanism. Hopefully they will find a sweet spot where most people are able to make the most of their vacation.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Er, really?

Per the WDW website:

"A priceless perk."
"Imagine having the freedom to choose from over 60 of your favorite WDW experiences- with the flexibility to change your plans at any time-from anywhere!"
"for one park per day of your visit, secure up to 3 FP selections for popular attractions..."

Sounds like hyping to me.

That's just marketing. You're inferring they created FP to "hype" rides. That's not the purpose. It's so you don't spend your entire day standing in lines and not spending money.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

80's July MK lines were hell!

Speedway, 20k, Skyway, Dumbo, Swan Boats took forever, barely moving. Outdoor queues too. Snow, Pan, Jungle, Thunder, Canoes were pretty dismal too. Queues were mostly outside, barely sheltered. At best some canopy, such as the Mansion has retained to this day.

Space took so long I only ever did it after the fireworks. But at least Disney had learned by 1975 that Orlando isn't Anaheim and had moved to indoor queues.


EPCOT by contrast was a marvel (back when that word to Disney meant magical rather than franchise). The eight wonder of the world. Every ride an E ticket, every E ticket a crowd guzzler. Amazing. Here is a MAGICal thought for all those used to 2010s WDW: at EPCOT, everywhere you spend more time on the ride than in the line. What a theme park.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

That's just marketing. You're inferring they created FP to "hype" rides. That's not the purpose. It's so you don't spend your entire day standing in lines and not spending money.

Marketing is hyping. I'm not sure I get what you are trying to say, but no matter.

If you don't want to consider the Pavlovian aspect of FP, okay. I was just pointing it out for anyone who wishes to consider that aspect of it.

If that doesn't interest you, okay.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Marketing is hyping. I'm not sure I get what you are trying to say, but no matter.

If you don't want to consider the Pavlovian aspect of FP, okay. I was just pointing it out for anyone who wishes to consider that aspect of it.

If that doesn't interest you, okay.

So confusing. FP is a benefit that can be marketed. It doesn’t mean FP was created to market or “hype” rides. I already told you why it was created.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

EPCOT by contrast was a marvel (back when that word to Disney meant magical rather than franchise). The eight wonder of the world. Every ride an E ticket, every E ticket a crowd guzzler. Amazing. Here is a MAGICal thought for all those used to 2010s WDW: at EPCOT, everywhere you spend more time on the ride than in the line. What a theme park.

I wasn't all that old when Epcot first opened, but I recall it as a place where the attention was not really on what I'd call e-rides.

I've always viewed the back half of Epcot - more or less - as a pretty shopping mall. There were a few attractions, but they weren't the main focus. Epcot was more about exploring at your own pace. You could stop and see live performers, shop, and maybe see one of the "circle-vision 360" films.

Many of the early Future World rides were roughly in the style of Spaceship Earth and the recently closed Energy Pavilion (though that was before the exciting Ellen overlay). They were educational with lots of animatronics, but they weren't what I'd consider to be classic E-rides. There were no coasters, or anything like Test Track.

Mostly, I've always thought of Epcot as a park that isn't centered on thrill rides.

I remember the original Innoventions ( Communicore) had a giant population clock. Communicore and post-ride Imagination had interactive areas that were similar to the kind of displays found in a science museum. That was the first place I saw a pin (art) toy. I also remember we had to wait our turn to see each of the stations I the post-ride Imagination. It wasn't one long line, but it took a rather long time to see everything.

The Future World Pavilions were roughly equal to each other, and big draws, but I would not say they were ever "e-rides' in the same sense as Space Mtn. is an e-ride.

 

[dieboy]

We're talking 25 minutes or less for other rides. And if you look at it by park, that's less than 2 hours of long waits and 0-25 minutes for everything else. Epcot, almost everything is a walk on except Test Track and Soarin'. Disney Studios only has a few attractions and the wait was minimal for Star Tours and TOT and non-existent for Muppets and the shows. Everything in Animal Kingdom was a walk on, including Everest. So....if you spend one day per park like most do, you can easily ride quite a bit in a day. We did everything and were usually killing time in the late afternoon/early evening while waiting for nighttime spectaculars. With AK, we ended up leaving before dark because we were getting so tired of re-riding everything while waiting for Rivers of Light.

That is not status quo, feel lucky you got to experience the parks as you describe, because it seriously only happens once or twice a year now lately.