WDW To MCO Rail

[Missing20K]

I'm not sure the 16B has anything to do with roads/bridges. I'm guessing the vast majority is going to the LA/LV link because that is what Sen Reid wants and he has lots of investments in Nevada that it would benefit.

If the money is spent on little projects like Natural Gas busses for this city or that city then it will have little impact overall. It will be interesting to watch how they spend 800 Billion overall and not have it be a "corporate handout". It's all a corporate handout, including the proposed health care bill.

If they are going to spend that much money it would be nice to see it have a real impact that is actually beneficial. I know, I'm a dreamer!

Well true it is all a corporate "handout" but somebody has to do all the work. That whole thing is an odd situation in that the gov't is spending the money but in order to spend it they have to give it to private businesses and citizens in order for it to work. Or at least that's what they want you to believe. :snore:

Back to the topic, I disagree that if you converted an entire cities buses or DME's in this case, wouldn't have an impact. I can't think of anyway to obtain the actual numbers, but I would guess that the amount of diesel used by DME, and in turn the amount of carbon DME releases into the atmosphere, has to be very large. I would then guess that the same would be true for large cities also. :shrug:

This topic has got me thinking...

 

[TTATraveler]

You say it's not going to happen and then list all the reasons something needs to happen. I believe a short line from the airport to WDW is much more likely than the city of Orlando building an effective light rail system. Please, talk about something that ain't gonna happen. Orlando can't even get a beltway built around the city. It must be miserable for people to have to live in that town year round.

Not sure what the Seminole county project would have to do with this. I'm not seeing the connection.

I definitely think Central Florida needs a reliable mass transportation system, however, I don't see it happening in the immediate future. A commuter rail or light rail system from Seminole County to Poinciana in Osceola County would primarily be used by people who live in Central Florida and commute on a daily basis to Downtown Orlando and the office parks surrounding Orlando. This could take a lot of cars off I-4, the 408, 17-92/441, 436, and John Young Parkway. I believe there is a much bigger need for this commuter-type system then a system that would be geared towards tourists traveling between OIA and Disney. That's not to say that the two systems couldn't be connected or integrated in some way.

Orlando is not a major city, I consider it a small city trying to become a larger city but has growing pains. Due to all the development, sprawl is abundant and everyone needs a car to get anywhere. The improvements to I-4 and 408 only bring those roads to where they should have been 10 years ago.

Some type of rail system from OIA to Disney only eliminates traffic on the 528 and some parts of I-4. 417 really doesn't have bad traffic but that is probably due to the ridiculous tolls. Consequently, it may take traffic off of 192 and 535 in Kissimmee, but again this only benefits the tourists. I think the main focus of any money and opportunities that come this way should be a mass transportation system for Orlando Metro area. If Disney and Universal want to pump in money to benefit their properties that is perfectly fine.

Keep in mind that any line that is from OIA to Disney has to run along either state or county property. I think Disney will have a very hard time getting a line that is exclusive to their property.

 

[RedDeath]

Can I just point out this is a flawed idea from the word go. Having a train system directly into WDW would be stupid. It would mean having a train run into every single resort that already uses the magical express service. Now unless you plan on having a highway of trains running all over WDW I don't think it's gonna work. It'll ruin the theming of the resorts. Create to much noise. It'll need a complex system to get them all back onto the main line. It's just not viable. And Having only 1 train station located in the heart of WDW just won't work, guests will then have to get buses to get from the station to their hotels ultimately beating the purpose of the train.

 

[TP2000]

The MagLev doesn't go to Los Angeles, it's actually a route from Anaheim to Las Vegas. And 8 Billion of that federal 16 Billion has been earmarked for the Anaheim MagLev route.

Anaheim is already moving ahead with its ARTIC (Anaheim Regional Transportaion Intermodal Center) station a few blocks east of Disneyland on Katella Avenue, next to Angel Stadium. This link to the California High Speed Rail website (which is separate from the MagLev proposal) has a nice flyover/flythru of the new Anaheim ARTIC station, also showing a monorail link to the Disneyland Resort to the west. http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/gallery.aspx Down towards the bottom of the list of station video options.

The ARTIC is also the first terminus in the separate project, California High Speed Rail (CHSR), which was passed by the voters in a 20 Billion Dollar state bond measure last year. Anaheim to LA is the first leg to be built on the main Anaheim-San Francisco trunk route, not only because the city of Anaheim is home to the biggest tourist destination in the state (DISNEYLAND USA!) but also because Anaheim is so far along on its development of the ARTIC facility. An existing 1990's train station already exists on the ARTIC site, serving approximately two dozen Metrolink and Surfliner commuter trains each day on several SoCal routes. The ARTIC would continue to serve Metrolink and Surfliner trains, in addition to the approved and funded CHSP to the Bay Area, and the proposed and initially funded MagLev to Las Vegas, and the proposed civic monorail line serving Angel Stadium, Honda Center and Disneyland.

Clearly, California has a head start on Florida when it comes to recently approved funding for multiple pre-planned high speed rail and MagLev projects, to the tune of 28 Billion dollars. And Anaheim is now the epicenter of that planning, with two seperate high speed rail lines having their terminus in the new ARTIC facility.

If Florida, and Orlando, want to move in the direction Anaheim has and grab some of these funds that are now available from the federal government, they need to get moving ASAP and come up with a viable plan and a structured state governmental entity to handle the plans and allocation of funds.

 

[cloudboy]

Two separate (actually three separate) transportation proposals had been put forth in the past. Each failed less because of the amount o be spent as much as opposition from certain interests.

Two were mass transit lines - one airport to Disney, one I Drive corridor. The Airport to Disney ended up failing because Disney was not willing to put any money towards it if they had to make intermediate stops. The second simply got voted down because it would have been all about tourists and the local public didn't like the idea. Disney was not too keen on that one, either.

The other was a high speed line Tampa to Orlando to Miami. That really ended up getting voted down due to conflicts with CSX and in particular Lakeland's aversion to the idea.

There IS a commuter rail project moving ahead - it will benefit from the stimulus bill but was already approved. That will be a commuter train from Deland to Kissimmee called the SunRail. That, however, will not stop at the airport, and is not really a tourist operation as a true commuter train.

 

[Yensid_Robert9]

I'm sure there are many pros to this, and I agree it would be totally awesome to go straight from MCO to WDW but you gotta think of all the cons (some have already been listed).

1. Will it be non stop to the property?
2. Who's gonna do the construction? Imagineers? Public construction firms?
3. Should it really be a free ride all the way?
4. No matter where you go there's gonna be trouble makers. If it has multi-stops which would be very likely in my opinion, people are gonna be bothered by someone trying to sell something, causing some sort of disturbances. Taking advantage of tourists. Doesn't matter how many security officers are patroling the rails. Case and point L.A. Metro System, D.C. Metro system. Not so much in Denver because hey we got nothing. But Anywhere you go people are gonna try to make money from or take advantage of tourists.

 

[Kamikaze]

Orlando has become a major city.

The advantage, as I see it, is to ease traffic congestion and displace fossil fuels which we are too reliant on IMO. So an airport to WDW link is a system that could have a MAJOR impact for a relatively small investment. It would eliminate the Magical Express and thousands of rental cars that jam I-4, along with taxis and other busses that serve LBV. Because the right of way is mostly available along the new expressway to the airport, I think it could be done rather easily.

I think a deal where the Federal/State/Local government builds the track and Disney provides the trains could work quite well.

I know that Orlando is a major city, but an MCO to WDW system would not be designed to service Orlando.

An MCO to Orlando system would be set up completely differently than MCO to WDW.

Can I just point out this is a flawed idea from the word go. Having a train system directly into WDW would be stupid. It would mean having a train run into every single resort that already uses the magical express service. Now unless you plan on having a highway of trains running all over WDW I don't think it's gonna work. It'll ruin the theming of the resorts. Create to much noise. It'll need a complex system to get them all back onto the main line. It's just not viable. And Having only 1 train station located in the heart of WDW just won't work, guests will then have to get buses to get from the station to their hotels ultimately beating the purpose of the train.

No, you'd run one to somewhere on property, say the TTC for instance, and then buses to the resorts. That part of it would work, because running buses 5miles to resorts is a heck of a lot more efficient than 40 miles each way from MCO to WDW.

 

[jt04]

I know that Orlando is a major city, but an MCO to WDW system would not be designed to service Orlando.

An MCO to Orlando system would be set up completely differently than MCO to WDW.



No, you'd run one to somewhere on property, say the TTC for instance, and then buses to the resorts. That part of it would work, because running buses 5miles to resorts is a heck of a lot more efficient than 40 miles each way from MCO to WDW.

Great posts everyone. I'm just responding to kamikaze because he has summed it up well.

My whole point about MCO to WDW is due to absolute numbers and not a Disney fanboy perspective. WDW gets huge numbers coming from the airport that Sea World/Uni/Convention Center just don't generate.

So by adding a relatively short line which I estimate at 15 to 20 miles there could be a huge impact on fuel consumption and also the eliminating of a lot of traffic congestion. It is just a way to get the most bang for the buck which I think any responsible government would look at first! And if it is a direct line Disney will offset a huge part of the cost. Again I think if the federal gov't and the state of Florida would lay the track, Disney would provide the trains. The airport could fund the station on their end and Disney could build a hub at their end.

Also, while it would probably be free for Disney guests, there could be a charge for folks traveling to LBV hotels so it could generate some revenue also to the state through taxes on those tickets.

 

[jt04]

The MagLev doesn't go to Los Angeles, it's actually a route from Anaheim to Las Vegas. And 8 Billion of that federal 16 Billion has been earmarked for the Anaheim MagLev route.

Anaheim is already moving ahead with its ARTIC (Anaheim Regional Transportaion Intermodal Center) station a few blocks east of Disneyland on Katella Avenue, next to Angel Stadium. This link to the California High Speed Rail website (which is separate from the MagLev proposal) has a nice flyover/flythru of the new Anaheim ARTIC station, also showing a monorail link to the Disneyland Resort to the west. http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/gallery.aspx Down towards the bottom of the list of station video options.

The ARTIC is also the first terminus in the separate project, California High Speed Rail (CHSR), which was passed by the voters in a 20 Billion Dollar state bond measure last year. Anaheim to LA is the first leg to be built on the main Anaheim-San Francisco trunk route, not only because the city of Anaheim is home to the biggest tourist destination in the state (DISNEYLAND USA!) but also because Anaheim is so far along on its development of the ARTIC facility. An existing 1990's train station already exists on the ARTIC site, serving approximately two dozen Metrolink and Surfliner commuter trains each day on several SoCal routes. The ARTIC would continue to serve Metrolink and Surfliner trains, in addition to the approved and funded CHSP to the Bay Area, and the proposed and initially funded MagLev to Las Vegas, and the proposed civic monorail line serving Angel Stadium, Honda Center and Disneyland.

Clearly, California has a head start on Florida when it comes to recently approved funding for multiple pre-planned high speed rail and MagLev projects, to the tune of 28 Billion dollars. And Anaheim is now the epicenter of that planning, with two seperate high speed rail lines having their terminus in the new ARTIC facility.

If Florida, and Orlando, want to move in the direction Anaheim has and grab some of these funds that are now available from the federal government, they need to get moving ASAP and come up with a viable plan and a structured state governmental entity to handle the plans and allocation of funds.

Great post! Do you have a link to the Las Vegas maglev project.

 

[jt04]

Wouldn't the fossil fuel reduction be dependent on how many people want to drive for personal reasons, just as they might now, how many people are staying on property versus off property, cause it would depend on where it stops, and how much energy the train (or maglev or whatever) uses? Granted, it's bound to be less than the DME buses plus rental cars, but by how much? Enough to make it worthwhile to spend such a large amount of capital? I'm not sure, I'm just asking rhetorically.

I think a lot would depend on what type of route it would take. Would it be straight from MCO to Disney property? Take a stop at Universal? What about International Drive or I-4 or maingate off property hotels?

Again, I think the money could be better spent. For example, what if you take the $1b you are proposing and convert all the DME's to natural gas, or hydrogen, or some other unforeseen, innovative, alternative energy source? That's they type of project I would like to see.

P.S. Can I just say how I really enjoy the "nerd" threads that happen here at magic. It's always fun to discuss cool science-y topics with like-minded people.

If Disney is going to convert the DME's it should be on their dime IMO.

If I had my way the stimulus would fund or subsidize the conversion of the nation's school busses to Natural Gas or propane. Now that would have an impact on gasoline and diesel prices for the better!

Yeah, I love the nerd, I mean geek tech talk. :lol:

 

[VillanovaBlue]

Great posts everyone. I'm just responding to kamikaze because he has summed it up well.

My whole point about MCO to WDW is due to absolute numbers and not a Disney fanboy perspective. WDW gets huge numbers coming from the airport that Sea World/Uni/Convention Center just don't generate.

So by adding a relatively short line which I estimate at 15 to 20 miles there could be a huge impact on fuel consumption and also the eliminating of a lot of traffic congestion. It is just a way to get the most bang for the buck which I think any responsible government would look at first! And if it is a direct line Disney will offset a huge part of the cost. Again I think if the federal gov't and the state of Florida would lay the track, Disney would provide the trains. The airport could fund the station on their end and Disney could build a hub at their end.

Also, while it would probably be free for Disney guests, there could be a charge for folks traveling to LBV hotels so it could generate some revenue also to the state through taxes on those tickets.

Responsible Government??? Looking for the best "Bang for the Buck"???

:lol::ROFLOL::lol::ROFLOL::lol:


But wait, seriously,



:lol::ROFLOL::lol::ROFLOL::lol:

 

[uklad79]

Looks good! Like a tidy modern Woolworths would look like if it had evolved with decent management. I think Butlers tried to create something like this with a limited product range which didn't work but this place seems to have the right product mix to pull people in. Hopefully it will work as it looks like a store I will use. They even sell buckets for 99p, try finding a bucket in the city centre.

 

[marni1971]

So by adding a relatively short line which I estimate at 15 to 20 miles there could be a huge impact on fuel consumption and also the eliminating of a lot of traffic congestion.

There`s no way that would happen. Disney would have to pay for the line since it`s essentially private, which they won`t, and everywhere else would object to the plans any which way they could. It`s make DME look like a marriage made in heaven.

 

[Dayma]

I can't see this happening at all. The DME is just fine the way it is.

 

[goofntink]

It's not going to happen. They have been talking about commuter rail starting in Seminole County (Deland, I beleive) and extending south to Poinciana. The rail lines are already there but I believe they are owned by CSX. The plan seemed to be close to happening but the State trial lawyers got involved and that put a major crimp in the plan. The gist of the story is that they were fighting over who would be responsible for the rail lines, should there be a disaster. There was also a problem with a Polk County Commisioner who was fighting the plan since it would apparently send more CSX trains into the Lakeland area. While I don't think the plan is 100% dead, I don't think it is close to a reality at this point.

So what do we have, horrible traffic on I-4 and parts of the 408, not to mention all the secondary roads. The road infrastructure in Central Florida is severly undersized and inadequate for all the development that has occured over the years. A light rail line to Disney from the airport is only one small part of the problem. The City of Orlando could be so much more if it had light rail service from the airport to Downtown Orlando and light rail service servicing the commuters from Seminole, Orange, and Osceola Counties. Mass transportation is the key to any major city and Orlando does not have that bonus (I don't consider Lynx the solution either). 417 is the eastern part of the expressway/beltway around Orlando. 429 is the western part but still needs to be extended north of Apopka to connect with I-4. Ideally, light rail service within the expressways/beltways would be awesome and greatly relieve the traffic congestion.

It is going to happen that is why D.O.T bought all of our 1 square block of property we owned on Ronald Reagan Blvd & 436 in Altamonte Springs. They are going to use it for the light rail station and parking.They have already demolished most of our old buildings we sold them already.The issue with the rail usage from CSX was settled last year. Light rail will have to build it's own side rail at each of the proposed stations,so as to not interfere with the CSX freight trains or AMTRACK.

 

[jt04]

I can't see this happening at all. The DME is just fine the way it is.

No, it really isn't.

 

[jt04]

It is going to happen that is why D.O.T bought all of our 1 square block of property we owned on Ronald Reagan Blvd & 436 in Altamonte Springs. They are going to use it for the light rail station and parking.They have already demolished most of our old buildings we sold them already.The issue with the rail usage from CSX was settled last year. Light rail will have to build it's own side rail at each of the proposed stations,so as to not interfere with the CSX freight trains or AMTRACK.

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[Astro_Digital]

What I find stupid about the whole railroad thing is I taken I-4 maybe a hundred times and had "Zero" and I mean "Zero" problems.

At rush hour maybe a dozen times and the traffic is minor compared with a major city. No bumper to bumper traffic jams where it took me an hour or more to travel a few dozen yards.

But...... You know I am not American so I really can not care much about how America wastes money it really does not have.

 

[barrettismyhero]

Here's my two cents being a railroad fan.

How many trains would they be operating at once? Would this system be double tracked? Since that increases the amount of trains that can run at a single time.

If they have a small fleet of trains (3-5 locomotives and 20 passenger cars/ 1 engine with around 5 cars give or take a few per train), even at a 15-25 mile line. Tourists can back up very easily at either side of the stations MCO/TTC. There needs to be more units back and forth at quicker times, trains don't always allow for that.

In my opinion while the train idea is a great idea. Magical Express is a better option at this point. In the future a mass transit train line to WDW would be awesome.

 

[Kobe!!]

The numbers in this thread are making my head hurt!!!:hammer: