WDW To MCO Rail

[jt04]

So now that congress has committed 16 Billion dollars :xmas: to new mass transportation systems, does this make it possible for Disney to join forces with government to build a transportation system from WDW to the airport? Hmmmm? :shrug:

Anyone know more?:lookaroun Seems like a win for Orlando, Disney and I-4!

 

[Kamikaze]

$16b is nothing.

A WDW to MCO rail would take at least 20% of that entire budget.
For instance, to show how little $16b is these days, it is going to cost $500 million for a 10 lane, 1/2 mile long bridge up here as part of an overall project to redo 13 miles of existing road at a total of $2b dollars. And thats with the land already paid for.

Also, while it would be nice, I think spending that money on mass transport system for a major city rather than a vacation resort would be much more sensible.

 

[jt04]

$16b is nothing.

A WDW to MCO rail would take at least 20% of that entire budget.
For instance, to show how little $16b is these days, it is going to cost $500 million for a 10 lane, 1/2 mile long bridge up here as part of an overall project to redo 13 miles of existing road at a total of $2b dollars. And thats with the land already paid for.

Also, while it would be nice, I think spending that money on mass transport system for a major city rather than a vacation resort would be much more sensible.

Orlando has become a major city.

The advantage, as I see it, is to ease traffic congestion and displace fossil fuels which we are too reliant on IMO. So an airport to WDW link is a system that could have a MAJOR impact for a relatively small investment. It would eliminate the Magical Express and thousands of rental cars that jam I-4, along with taxis and other busses that serve LBV. Because the right of way is mostly available along the new expressway to the airport, I think it could be done rather easily.

I think a deal where the Federal/State/Local government builds the track and Disney provides the trains could work quite well.

 

[uklad79]

I wouldn't think it would mean much. 16 Billion across the USA is very little money $320m per state

 

[krankenstein]

I doubt it will ever happen.

 

[jt04]

I wouldn't think it would mean much. 16 Billion across the USA is very little money $320m per state

It will be targeted to very specific projects as it appears now. A large sum will probably go to a high speed rail between LA and Las Vegas.

But I would think that if 1 billion from the federal government went to an electric rail between the airport and WDW, and with TWDC and the state of Florida contributing 1 Billion then it would be feasible. It might not even cost that much. It really is not far from south of the airport along the Greenway to International Drive South. Looking at google earth there are large tracts of land (which may even be owned by Disney) that would make a great hub which the on property monorail system could be connected to someday.

There are only a few areas where the money could have a real impact and be financially beneficial and I think this is one of them. I also think the LA/LV link makes good sense. There are also projects in Seattle and a couple other places that make sense to me. Just my opinion.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

I believe there were serious talks at some point to have it happen, but there were too many disagreements. I believe the city wanted Disney to contribute a large amount of money to the project. However, Disney didn't want to do that with proposed stops for the convention center and Universal areas. I think Disney was looking for a more direct system and the city didn't want to fund that either.

 

[jt04]

I believe there were serious talks at some point to have it happen, but there were too many disagreements. I believe the city wanted Disney to contribute a large amount of money to the project. However, Disney didn't want to do that with proposed stops for the convention center and Universal areas. I think Disney was looking for a more direct system and the city didn't want to fund that either.

Yes but now federal money is on the table. I guarantee you if the city of Orlando does not have to put up any funding they wouldn't have a problem with it going forward. I'm fairly certain the state owns the Greenway right of way also. So the whole Universal/Convention Center issue would no longer be a problem. Again just my opinion.

 

[Figment1986]

There was talk of bringing up doing leg 1 of the abandoned high speed rail from the airport, to the convention center, to disney... (Disney's idea was skip the convention center if i remember) this could let the parks on I-drive use the convention center stop as a hub for their own transit since universal and seaworld is not far from there.

but I doubt it will happen... look at what the state did last time they had a chance at it.

 

[jt04]

There was talk of bringing up doing leg 1 of the abandoned high speed rail from the airport, to the convention center, to disney... (Disney's idea was skip the convention center if i remember) this could let the parks on I-drive use the convention center stop as a hub for their own transit since universal and seaworld is not far from there.

but I doubt it will happen... look at what the state did last time they had a chance at it.

But again, there is a lot of federal money that is going to be spent somewhere so I think that changes everything (potentially) with respect to this project.

 

[marni1971]

As mentioned above, it has been tried with both light rail and Maglev. Too many people arguing their point - Disney vs Universal vs Mears vs I-Drive vs the city. It got daft - Disney wanted an exclusive line to on property. Universal threatened to sue if this happened. Universal then wanted an exclusive station, Disney threatened to sue if this happened etc. etc.

In the end, Disney offered land for a termini - near the 192/I4 junction with no plans to connect into the property transport network. Call it sour grapes. The Mouse wants a captive audience. That`s why Magical Express was developed. They won`t want to make it easier to leave property to go visit Uni or SW - and the plan will stall without the rest of Orlandos tourist traps signing up. Catch 22.

 

[jt04]

As mentioned above, it has been tried with both light rail and Maglev. Too many people arguing their point - Disney vs Universal vs Mears vs I-Drive vs the city. It got daft - Disney wanted an exclusive line to on property. Universal threatened to sue if this happened. Universal then wanted an exclusive station, Disney threatened to sue if this happened etc. etc.

In the end, Disney offered land for a termini - near the 192/I4 junction with no plans to connect into the property transport network. Call it sour grapes. The Mouse wants a captive audience. That`s why Magical Express was developed. They won`t want to make it easier to leave property to go visit Uni or SW - and the plan will stall without the rest of Orlandos tourist traps signing up. Catch 22.

I still think that with federal and state money involved it changes everything. The federal government wants more mass transit. The money approved will be spent and no matter where it is allocated someone won't like it. But that won't matter because, again, the money will be spent and that means jobs. So states can find a way to use the money or they will be shut out.

It kills me that Universal choose to move to Orlando and then every chance they get they complain about Disney wanting to keep guests on property. That is sour grapes in my opinion.

 

[TTATraveler]

I still think that with federal and state money involved it changes everything. The federal government wants more mass transit. The money approved will be spent and no matter where it is allocated someone won't like it. But that won't matter because, again, the money will be spent and that means jobs. So states can find a way to use the money or they will be shut out.

It kills me that Universal choose to move to Orlando and then every chance they get they complain about Disney wanting to keep guests on property. That is sour grapes in my opinion.

It's not going to happen. They have been talking about commuter rail starting in Seminole County (Deland, I beleive) and extending south to Poinciana. The rail lines are already there but I believe they are owned by CSX. The plan seemed to be close to happening but the State trial lawyers got involved and that put a major crimp in the plan. The gist of the story is that they were fighting over who would be responsible for the rail lines, should there be a disaster. There was also a problem with a Polk County Commisioner who was fighting the plan since it would apparently send more CSX trains into the Lakeland area. While I don't think the plan is 100% dead, I don't think it is close to a reality at this point.

So what do we have, horrible traffic on I-4 and parts of the 408, not to mention all the secondary roads. The road infrastructure in Central Florida is severly undersized and inadequate for all the development that has occured over the years. A light rail line to Disney from the airport is only one small part of the problem. The City of Orlando could be so much more if it had light rail service from the airport to Downtown Orlando and light rail service servicing the commuters from Seminole, Orange, and Osceola Counties. Mass transportation is the key to any major city and Orlando does not have that bonus (I don't consider Lynx the solution either). 417 is the eastern part of the expressway/beltway around Orlando. 429 is the western part but still needs to be extended north of Apopka to connect with I-4. Ideally, light rail service within the expressways/beltways would be awesome and greatly relieve the traffic congestion.

 

[jt04]

It's not going to happen. They have been talking about commuter rail starting in Seminole County (Deland, I beleive) and extending south to Poinciana. The rail lines are already there but I believe they are owned by CSX. The plan seemed to be close to happening but the State trial lawyers got involved and that put a major crimp in the plan. The gist of the story is that they were fighting over who would be responsible for the rail lines, should there be a disaster. There was also a problem with a Polk County Commisioner who was fighting the plan since it would apparently send more CSX trains into the Lakeland area. While I don't think the plan is 100% dead, I don't think it is close to a reality at this point.

So what do we have, horrible traffic on I-4 and parts of the 408, not to mention all the secondary roads. The road infrastructure in Central Florida is severly undersized and inadequate for all the development that has occured over the years. A light rail line to Disney from the airport is only one small part of the problem. The City of Orlando could be so much more if it had light rail service from the airport to Downtown Orlando and light rail service servicing the commuters from Seminole, Orange, and Osceola Counties. Mass transportation is the key to any major city and Orlando does not have that bonus (I don't consider Lynx the solution either). 417 is the eastern part of the expressway/beltway around Orlando. 429 is the western part but still needs to be extended north of Apopka to connect with I-4. Ideally, light rail service within the expressways/beltways would be awesome and greatly relieve the traffic congestion.

You say it's not going to happen and then list all the reasons something needs to happen. I believe a short line from the airport to WDW is much more likely than the city of Orlando building an effective light rail system. Please, talk about something that ain't gonna happen. Orlando can't even get a beltway built around the city. It must be miserable for people to have to live in that town year round.

Not sure what the Seminole county project would have to do with this. I'm not seeing the connection.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

What's the need? They already have DME.


Or maybe they should just build a Airport in WDW...no...Wait...that's too 1966 for their tastes.

 

[jt04]

What's the need? They already have DME.


Or maybe they should just build a Airport in WDW...no...Wait...that's too 1966 for their tastes.

A rail line would not only displace the DME busses from the bee line and I-4 but also thousands of rental cars from I-4. Not only reduces traffic but would greatly reduce fossil fuel use.

Of course I am sure you want a bullet train from south Florida to Epcot's front gate.

Hey now there is an idea :lol:

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

A rail line would not only displace the DME busse from the bee line and I-4 but also thousands of rental cars from I-4. Not only reduces traffic but would greatly reduce fossil fuel use.

Of course I am sure you want a bullet train from south Florida to Epcot's front gate.

Hey now there is an idea :lol:

Meeeeybe?:lookaroun:ROFLOL:

 

[Missing20K]

Based on conservative estimates, Florida draws roughly 80-90 million visitors per year. What percentage fly into MCO and frequent the central FL/ Orlando are may be difficult to tell, but even if it's 80% (a high estimate in my opinion) that would equate to roughly 64-72 million visitors per year. By comparison, New York City alone brings in approx. 47 million visitors per year. While it would be neat, I think the money could be better spent elsewhere. Using your numbers, if the money being spent in total is $16b and if the Fed. Govt. spends $1b on this project, they are devoting over 6% of the total transportation budget on a "Disney" project. That is far too great a percentage to one project, Disney or not, when the nation's highways, railroads, and ports are in serious disrepair. I can't imagine any project in the country getting such a large percentage of the funds, let alone a project that, rightly or wrongly, would be projected in the media and the public to be a corporation getting another handout for a pet project. I personally would much rather see the money spent on upgrading our highways, expanding mass transit in major cities (no Orlando is not a major city, even if you want it to be, there are only 2 million residents in the metro area, and if not for WDW and conventions, they wouldn't even be that big) as well as to and from major cities (it blows my mind we don't have bullet trains here) and increasing CAFE standards.

Just my opinion, jt.......though it would be awesome to hop on a train straight from MCO to the TTC. I would feel so

 

[Missing20K]

A rail line would not only displace the DME busses from the bee line and I-4 but also thousands of rental cars from I-4. Not only reduces traffic but would greatly reduce fossil fuel use.

Of course I am sure you want a bullet train from south Florida to Epcot's front gate.

Hey now there is an idea :lol:

Wouldn't the fossil fuel reduction be dependent on how many people want to drive for personal reasons, just as they might now, how many people are staying on property versus off property, cause it would depend on where it stops, and how much energy the train (or maglev or whatever) uses? Granted, it's bound to be less than the DME buses plus rental cars, but by how much? Enough to make it worthwhile to spend such a large amount of capital? I'm not sure, I'm just asking rhetorically.

I think a lot would depend on what type of route it would take. Would it be straight from MCO to Disney property? Take a stop at Universal? What about International Drive or I-4 or maingate off property hotels?

Again, I think the money could be better spent. For example, what if you take the $1b you are proposing and convert all the DME's to natural gas, or hydrogen, or some other unforeseen, innovative, alternative energy source? That's they type of project I would like to see.

P.S. Can I just say how I really enjoy the "nerd" threads that happen here at magic. It's always fun to discuss cool science-y topics with like-minded people.

 

[jt04]

Based on conservative estimates, Florida draws roughly 80-90 million visitors per year. What percentage fly into MCO and frequent the central FL/ Orlando are may be difficult to tell, but even if it's 80% (a high estimate in my opinion) that would equate to roughly 64-72 million visitors per year. By comparison, New York City alone brings in approx. 47 million visitors per year. While it would be neat, I think the money could be better spent elsewhere. Using your numbers, if the money being spent in total is $16b and if the Fed. Govt. spends $1b on this project, they are devoting over 6% of the total transportation budget on a "Disney" project. That is far too great a percentage to one project, Disney or not, when the nation's highways, railroads, and ports are in serious disrepair. I can't imagine any project in the country getting such a large percentage of the funds, let alone a project that, rightly or wrongly, would be projected in the media and the public to be a corporation getting another handout for a pet project. I personally would much rather see the money spent on upgrading our highways, expanding mass transit in major cities (no Orlando is not a major city, even if you want it to be, there are only 2 million residents in the metro area, and if not for WDW and conventions, they wouldn't even be that big) as well as to and from major cities (it blows my mind we don't have bullet trains here) and increasing CAFE standards.

Just my opinion, jt.......though it would be awesome to hop on a train straight from MCO to the TTC. I would feel so

I'm not sure the 16B has anything to do with roads/bridges. I'm guessing the vast majority is going to the LA/LV link because that is what Sen Reid wants and he has lots of investments in Nevada that it would benefit.

If the money is spent on little projects like Natural Gas busses for this city or that city then it will have little impact overall. It will be interesting to watch how they spend 800 Billion overall and not have it be a "corporate handout". It's all a corporate handout, including the proposed health care bill.

If they are going to spend that much money it would be nice to see it have a real impact that is actually beneficial. I know, I'm a dreamer!