WDW Ticket Prices

[ford91exploder]

I am pretty sure 91 Ford Exploder is not a hater, I am sure he/she has spent countless hours and lots of money at the Parks. I am assuming he/she is disappointed in the way Disney has treated it's guests for the last 15 years.

Correct, And it's only been the past 3-4 years where I have been really disappointed in the treatment of the guests, Yes since 2001 there have been declines some due to necessary cutbacks due to 9/11 but recently it's a double whammy of price increases and cuts seemingly for the sake of cutting.

 

[ford91exploder]

When comparing prices over time, it's difficult to appreciate what they mean without some point of reference. I prefer to use Median Household Income because this gives a sense of cost relative to income.

Earlier I posted a graph of multiple WDW ticket types against Median Household Income. Looking at the ratio between the two, it's apparent that there are 3 eras of WDW ticket prices.

The first is the Walt Disney Legacy Era when ticket prices were relatively inexpensive. Walt Disney always emphasized to his subordinates that the company needed to provide its Guests with "good value". This pricing philosophy remained in place until Eisner took charge. Those who remember the time might have thought WDW was expensive but, relative to income, WDW was never less expensive.

The second is the Michael Eisner Era when ticket prices quickly increased by roughly 50% relative to Median Household Income and then held relatively steady for 15 years. As I mentioned earlier, there was a strong opinion in the industry in the mid-1980s that Disney theme park tickets were underpriced, and so the competition was relieved when Eisner hiked prices, even if WDW fans were furious.

The third is the Paul Pressler/Jay Rasulo Era when price increases began a steady climb faster than Median Household Income. This era is dominated by a more analytical approach to pricing. "What's the biggest price increase we can get away with without negatively impacting the bottom line." This is the era we are in today.

For those of you who are interested, this is what graphing WDW ticket prices relative to Median Household Income looks like:

View attachment 80255

The difference in the Eisner era - while there were increases in price there was also a stream of new attractions across the range from A to E ticket. In the Pressler/Rasulo era we have price increases along with cuts to attractions and amenities.

 

[jakeman]

Correct, And it's only been the past 3-4 years where I have been really disappointed in the treatment of the guests, Yes since 2001 there have been declines some due to necessary cutbacks due to 9/11 but recently it's a double whammy of price increases and cuts seemingly for the sake of cutting.

Then stop giving them your money.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Then stop giving them your money.

Openly complaining about the price of anything is a healthy part of free markets.

Consumers have a right to complain about products and prices. Smart businesses listen to those complaints. There always are outliers; those who will complain no matter what. However, when a sufficient number complain, smart businesses make adjustments before current customers become former customers.

 

[Mike S]

Then stop giving them your money.

I wouldn't say he should stop giving Disney money. What he should do is go to Disneyland.

 

[ford91exploder]

I wouldn't say he should stop giving Disney money. What he should do is go to Disneyland.

Thing is I DO go to Disneyland That's why I have a Premier Passport it's an AP which works at WDW -AND- DL.

 

[ford91exploder]

Openly complaining about the price of anything is a healthy part of free markets.

Consumers have a right to complain about products and prices. Smart businesses listen to those complaints. There always are outliers; those who will complain no matter what. However, when a sufficient number complain, smart businesses make adjustments before current customers become former customers.

The thing is TDO seems to think there is an endless supply of NEW customers to replace the ones they lose.

 

[Figments Friend]

This was us too, for years. My husband and I started doing this in college and we kept doing it for probably close to a decade or so. Then the last time I went to buy a new no-expiration pass a few years ago, I actually went as far as ringing it up in the Disney store...when I saw the price come up on the register I almost passed out. I just couldn't go through with it. Even the CMs at the store were like, "yeah, adding no expiration is insanely expensive now." We ended up buying a 4 or 5 day pass instead, and that's what we'll likely be doing from here on out. Sigh.

I know just what you are talking about!
Disney finally figured out people like us were 'beating the system' by purchasing the 10-day No-Exp PH options back in the day and spreading them out between multiple year visits.

I especially enjoyed using the 10-day non-Exp Park Hopper passes during the early 'Free Dining' promotions.
Back in the first few years of the promotion ( when it was actually a truly GREAT deal..) you had to purchase at least a one-day ticket and add it to your package to qualify for the offer.
So...a smart dragon would buy the one day, $79 ticket and use 3 to 4 days on a pre-owned 10-day pass.
This is part of the reason why i was able to make my passes last so long...as i usually only had to use a few days at a time each visit.

Of course...that changed over the years as far as the Dining Promo goes...i believe now you have to buy admission for 4 or more days now and we all know how the options have been seriously downgraded or removed outright.
Originally you could pretty much dine anywhere...and there were multiple options included in your meal.
That has all changed, not to mention menu changes and overall lower quality.
Now the 'Free Dining' deals are a joke when compared to the original offers.
Not worth it at all, in my opinion.

Ahhh..but it was a sweet period in the early to mid 2000s with those 10-day passes.

Of course, the even sweeter deal was having pre-bought Park tickets from years prior...back when EVERY Park ticket was 'non-expiring' automatically.
None of this 'have to pay to make it Non-Exp' jazz.
As Disney Marketing would proudly proclaim in associated promotional material -

" When we say your ticket does not expire, we mean it does not expire until YOU do!"
( quoted from a Official Guide Book 'WDW Without Kids' edition from 2001 ! )

I still have valid 'WorldPassport' tickets from 1983 that are still valid for admission to EPCOT and MK.
I also still have tickets from 1989 that are still valid for three Parks ( no DAK back then..).
Cool to still have those options....but i would be nuts to use them up.

I don't visit WDW these days anyway.
My last 10-day pass was used up at just the right moment when my interest transitioned out West.
Now i am in love with Disneyland.
Crazy as it may sound, i actually bought my first AP last year to ANY Disney Theme Park in the 35+ years i have been visiting.
Yeah...that's how much i love it out there.

 

[jakeman]

Openly complaining about the price of anything is a healthy part of free markets.

Consumers have a right to complain about products and prices. Smart businesses listen to those complaints. There always are outliers; those who will complain no matter what. However, when a sufficient number complain, smart businesses make adjustments before current customers become former customers.

I don't think anyone is debating rights, but this here isn't effective and it's fairly delusion to think it is.

 

[flynnibus]

Iremember when onexpiring tickets were part of the disney customer service... Knowing that your ticket would bring you back in the future. It was a symbyotic thing and disney looked like a saint for it

Then they started playing shell games trying to manipulate you more and more... Making the longer term tickets too lucrative for scalping/abuse... And giving away 'too much' of a discount compared to what they want to be making. So after all of that the practice is no longer sutainable.... And disney will get a black eye from its current fans, and cause customer servive issues in the future.

Where if all along they had just kept to simple ticketing that wasnt so manipulative and hence didnt need such long durations, and discounting to make it practical.... They could keep their saintly image and both disney and the customer would be happy.

 

[ford91exploder]

Iremember when onexpiring tickets were part of the disney customer service... Knowing that your ticket would bring you back in the future. It was a symbyotic thing and disney looked like a saint for it

Then they started playing shell games trying to manipulate you more and more... Making the longer term tickets too lucrative for scalping/abuse... And giving away 'too much' of a discount compared to what they want to be making. So after all of that the practice is no longer sutainable.... And disney will get a black eye from its current fans, and cause customer servive issues in the future.

Where if all along they had just kept to simple ticketing that wasnt so manipulative and hence didnt need such long durations, and discounting to make it practical.... They could keep their saintly image and both disney and the customer would be happy.

Yes I do remember when non-expiring tickets were part of the Disney Magic, DW's mother STILL has one or two from one of the Disney trips she did as a kid.

Disney is running on nostalgia these days, Unfortunately it's doing very little to CREATE nostalgic experiences with the nuts to butts crowding which is becoming increasingly common and this is going to have a long tail effect.

Example look at all the special holiday shows at UNI Mannheim Steamroller, Grinchmas, MACY's parade, Mannheim Steamroller is a MAJOR holiday act that USUALLY charges $90-300 per ticket at some fairly large venues. Yet unlike Disney it's part of your admission to Universal whereas at WDW they whack you $70 bucks for a parade with hot cocoa and inedible cookies.

 

[jakeman]

Yes I do remember when non-expiring tickets were part of the Disney Magic, DW's mother STILL has one or two from one of the Disney trips she did as a kid.

Disney is running on nostalgia these days, Unfortunately it's doing very little to CREATE nostalgic experiences with the nuts to butts crowding which is becoming increasingly common and this is going to have a long tail effect.

Example look at all the special holiday shows at UNI Mannheim Steamroller, Grinchmas, MACY's parade, Mannheim Steamroller is a MAJOR holiday act that USUALLY charges $90-300 per ticket at some fairly large venues. Yet unlike Disney it's part of your admission to Universal whereas at WDW they whack you $70 bucks for a parade with hot cocoa and inedible cookies.

Again...then stop going.

 

[ryguy]

Listen this is a cat and mouse game between Disney and its smarter guests. Disney caters to the dummies. Those of us who have been around eventually find loop holes to save some money when we go. I will say over the last decade Disney has been much better at finding the holes and eliminating the good values. Magic Kingdom Club, Passholder benefits and pricing, the dining plan, etc...

I am sure Under Cover Tourist is in the cross hairs, no expiration is for sure too. Basically they have out priced the no expiration so no sane person would add it.

Disney is in the perception game, they want you to think your getting a good deal, but if you run the numbers it's iffy at best. That applies to most aspects of their business.

The one day ticket price is simply praying on those who only want or can only visit for a short time. Disney doesn't like that and those guests are being punished for it. Oh and one day tickets are the most purchased ticket, so to me its seedy at best.

If Disney was a company that had a history of financial struggle then I would be more willing to accept their practices, but they have been killing it for a long time now. Can they not throw a bone to their most loyal guests? It seems they are doing just the opposite.

For those of you in business how do you treat your best and most loyal customers? It's not a financial question it's an ethics question. Do you go out of your way for them, or do you try screwing them at every turn? I grew up in a small family business and we always went out of way for our most loyal customers. It was our way of saying thanks and that we don't take you for granted. We would give them better pricing because we knew we would make it up because they kept coming back. But the bean counters at WDW only look at the numbers, annual passholders are small compared to say Disneyland's so guess what, they don't go out of their way for them. The number of passholders shouldn't matter when making the decision, it should be based on rewarding those who are loyal. And are a advocate for your company.

The last two CEO's have been New York City boys and they are a different breed of cat. In order to survive in the city you have be able to know how to play the game, be tough, no mercy. If not there is another guy right behind you willing take your place. The company since Eisner has been run with a Northeast feel, not a midwest one. In the end for those of us who have been going for years we can clearly see the line. Financially it's clear, but the culture has changed during these years. Just look at the garbage live action films they produce nowadays. When I was a kid seemed like all the kid movies were made by Disney. Back in the 70's and 80's cast members loved their jobs and didn't focus on the money because the workplace culture was like family. Eisner came on and quickly changed the culture and those values haven't been seen since. It's about the "Street" now not the "Family".

I understand in the end it's a business but I just believe you can run a good business and make money doing it. Chick-Fil-a is a good example. I think Disney doesn't put value on people anymore. Or at least like they used too. It's just a numbers game, but they are in a people business. They pray on those who haven't experienced Disney when it was run right, and pray on those who have memories as kids and want to relive that experience with their children or grandchildren. Basically they are resting on their laurels and eventually that always catches up to you.

 

[RSoxNo1]

WDW always has offered 1-day tickets but multiday tickets have come and gone, sometimes more than once. To understand how ticket prices have changed, a baseline value of "1" was established in 1971 (WDW's first year) and deltas to existing ticket prices were compared and averaged. This was plotted against changes to Median Household Income, which also used a baseline value of "1" in 1971.

This resulted in the following graph:

View attachment 80210


Unlike something I posted elsewhere, this graph does not compare 2004 Park Hopper tickets with 2005 base Magic Your Way (MYW) tickets. Base MYW tickets do not include the 'Park Hopper' or 'Water Parks & More' benefits found on earlier multiday tickets.

This graph does not include 'No Expiration' tickets. Price increases there have been huge, but I suspect most Guests don't buy these types of tickets. Including these tickets would have made the increases since 2005 seem worse than I suspect they have been for most Guests.

People that have followed me posting on this site or others recognize that I'm typically not an apologist. But one thing that isn't represented here is how undervalued a Disney ticket was previously. Yes, the prices are too high right now, but they were undervalued for so long, they had no choice but to have the price increase at a rate faster than the median household income.

 

[Mike S]

Thing is I DO go to Disneyland That's why I have a Premier Passport it's an AP which works at WDW -AND- DL.

Lol how could I forget. You kept saying how MM+ doesn't work because of your pass.

 

[SnarkyMonkey]

The thing is TDO seems to think there is an endless supply of NEW customers to replace the ones they lose.

So far that has been true. For every guest who has stopped going to WDW because it's too expensive (which is a very small number of people), 100 new customers come. The place is packed. People might complain but they are paying the prices. Therefore, they must be finding enjoyment there that they feel is worth the value because sane people don't throw money away. I always find the complaining to be nothing but idle threats.

 

[Mike S]

So far that has been true. For every guest who has stopped going to WDW because it's too expensive (which is a very small number of people), 100 new customers come. The place is packed. People might complain but they are paying the prices. Therefore, they must be finding enjoyment there that they feel is worth the value because sane people don't throw money away. I always find the complaining to be nothing but idle threats.

You know, it is possible to find overall enjoyment in something you really like and criticize certain aspects of it that you don't at the same time. Ask any sports fan that continues to pay to go to home games even when their team isn't doing so well. It's the same with most of us here and WDW. We still find enjoyment but are finding more and more things worthy of our criticism.

 

[SnarkyMonkey]

You know, it is possible to find overall enjoyment in something you really like and criticize certain aspects of it that you don't at the same time. Ask any sports fan that continues to pay to go to home games even when their team isn't doing so well. It's the same with most of us here and WDW. We still find enjoyment but are finding more and more things worthy of our criticism.

I don't disagree that critique is healthy. Sorry...didn't mean to imply that.

I was replying directly to your comment that I quoted. You seemed to imply that Disney won't be able to find enough new customers to replace the ones they lose from the price hike. I was only disagreeing with that.

 

[Mike S]

I don't disagree that critique is healthy. Sorry...didn't mean to imply that.

I was replying directly to your comment that I quoted. You seemed to imply that Disney won't be able to find enough new customers to replace the ones they lose from the price hike. I was only disagreeing with that.

That wasn't my post, it was @ford91exploder's that you originally quoted and I responded to.

 

[ford91exploder]

You know, it is possible to find overall enjoyment in something you really like and criticize certain aspects of it that you don't at the same time. Ask any sports fan that continues to pay to go to home games even when their team isn't doing so well. It's the same with most of us here and WDW. We still find enjoyment but are finding more and more things worthy of our criticism.

Exactly - until relatively recently Boston sports fans have not had much to cheer since the 70's and 80s - but we STILL went to the games in hopes things would improve.