News WDW Resorts to add fees for parking

[GoofGoof]

The initial post said that under 30 minutes would be free, so under that plan the Uber/Lyft stuff should be a non-issue.

Good point.

 

[21stamps]

The problem with charging for parking in an attempt to get more guests to use Magical Express is that they have been billing it as a "free" service. Does it really feel so free anymore if, besides taking a cab/Uber, your only alternative is paying a large parking fee?

Also, I think it would feel a little stingy to charge more for parking at the deluxes when you've already paid a premium to be there. As it is there aren't enough perks for the price, and maybe if there were it would help with the occupancy rates. More than $10 or $15 makes sense nowhere imo.

I agree with this. Transportation and convenience is how I would think most people justify the price of the monorail or even Epcot resorts. Sure there's other amenities too, but a lot of those are open to anyone on Disney property. That's again where I was saying they can't be compared to 5 star places. 5 star resorts aren't sharing their amenities with a neighboring hotel selling at 1/4 (or more) the price of that one. Adding a resort fee and parking fee to those already high resorts may push people away just on principle alone.

I think the car rentals will stay as long as they are still profitable. Uber and Lyft are interesting problems. How will the front gates treat Uber drivers if they arrive to pick up a guest? Will they charge a fee to get in? Can I just tell them I'm an Uber driver and beat the parking fee? Does Uber/Lyft give drivers ID cards or some way to validate they actually are working for the company? I've used Uber but I've never asked for identification.

I can't see them banning Uber/Lyft. It's becoming too mainstream in society today.

Taxi drivers have already been around for several years...way before Uber and Lyft. I don't think they're going anywhere.
Twice during our last trip we were stopped at the gate and I had to scan my magic band. Both times were at WL, which I thought was odd.

Believe it or not though, Alamo actually has some very decent rates from Disney Car Care. Especially with offer codes. I found one as low as $22 for one day. I didn't check weekly. In 2015 I used ME to take us back to the airport and pick up a rental car the day before we checked out. I went thru some small company and paid around $160ish for 8 or 9 nights ..but then add the Sunpass fee and it was a lot higher.lol

 

[L.C. Clench]

According to SEC filings the occupancy is up, not down in recent quarters but I'm sure they just lie in those SEC filings anyway

The sales tax treatment is also an area of question. In a lot of states (including Florida) there is regular sales tax and then an additional tax on hotel rooms. The resort fee is always subject to standard sales tax but it's a grey area as to whether the resort fee should also be subject to the hotel room tax. Some states have decided that because the fee is mandatory it should be considered part of the room cost so is subject to the additional hotel tax. At WDW the regular sales tax is 6% and the hotel tax is 6.5%. So for a resort fee you still pay 6% tax and at best you are beating the additional 6.5% but that loophole could be closed at any time and has been in some other states.

If I'm not mistaken empty DVC rooms don't count against occupancy as they are "sold" units so occupancy rates could be up as the number of available rooms reduces through conversion.

 

[21stamps]

If I'm not mistaken empty DVC rooms don't count against occupancy as they are "sold" units so occupancy rates could be up as the number of available rooms reduces through conversion.

But the DVC rooms count as hotel occupancy? I'm confused by this. If they're sold, and counted as "occupied", then the whole property shouldn't factor in to available rooms.
Example- 'The Poly villas and bungalows' is listed, and booked, as a separate resort from "Polynesian village"

 

[GoofGoof]

If I'm not mistaken empty DVC rooms don't count against occupancy as they are "sold" units so occupancy rates could be up as the number of available rooms reduces through conversion.

This is probably true, but there aren't a whole lot of empty DVC rooms except maybe at SSR. The DVC portion runs at close to 95% occupancy from what I've read. I know there are ways to manipulate the numbers, but DIS reported very healthy occupancy (89%). Even with fudging the numbers some they aren't hurting for guests.

 

[ford91exploder]

According to SEC filings the occupancy is up, not down in recent quarters but I'm sure they just lie in those SEC filings anyway

The sales tax treatment is also an area of question. In a lot of states (including Florida) there is regular sales tax and then an additional tax on hotel rooms. The resort fee is always subject to standard sales tax but it's a grey area as to whether the resort fee should also be subject to the hotel room tax. Some states have decided that because the fee is mandatory it should be considered part of the room cost so is subject to the additional hotel tax. At WDW the regular sales tax is 6% and the hotel tax is 6.5%. So for a resort fee you still pay 6% tax and at best you are beating the additional 6.5% but that loophole could be closed at any time and has been in some other states.

Yes I've seen the SEC filings as well, @ParentsOf4 had a breakdown and while occupancy is UP so are the out of service rooms so ??? Without seeing the internal reports we'll never really know.

As to the tax situation I was unaware that in FL 'resort fees' fell under sales tax, in my opinion FL should close the loophole (watch what happens to 'resort fees' then).

 

[SorcererMC]

Adding a resort fee and parking fee to those already high resorts may push people away just on principle alone.

This is why my money is on arrogance. Tourists hate these fees, and will avoid hotels that charge them, to the extent possible....and especially when the amenities aren't up to par. For Disney, I can see where they want in on the $$$$, but they further risk guests staying off property...up the street, for example. I think that this is trying to wring out more money from consumers who are taking shorter length of stays (eg see the 4 parks-4 days promotion).

 

[flynnibus]

It costs them next to nothing to maintain those lots.

Untrue - parking lots are very expensive, they are just eaten up as normal capital expenses by most places. That's like saying A/C costs them next to nothing because other people don't charge for it either..

You can google and find lots of reports on the cost to upkeep both surface lots and garages.

 

[L.C. Clench]

But the DVC rooms count as hotel occupancy? I'm confused by this. If they're sold, and counted as "occupied", then the whole property shouldn't factor in to available rooms.
Example- 'The Poly villas and bungalows' is listed, and booked, as a separate resort from "Polynesian village"

Completely separate parts of the company. DVC reports its own numbers and the hotels report theirs. When they convert rooms to DVC it comes out of their numbers. They can still rent them out but they no longer factor into the hotel occupancy counts.

This is probably true, but there aren't a whole lot of empty DVC rooms except maybe at SSR. The DVC portion runs at close to 95% occupancy from what I've read. I know there are ways to manipulate the numbers, but DIS reported very healthy occupancy (89%). Even with fudging the numbers some they aren't hurting for guests.

Not saying they are hurting for guests but they are reducing their inventory of hotel rooms by converting to DVC and taking rooms out of the counts for refurbishment helps inflate the numbers. It makes for good headlines but may not be real.

 

[ford91exploder]

I think the car rentals will stay as long as they are still profitable. Uber and Lyft are interesting problems. How will the front gates treat Uber drivers if they arrive to pick up a guest? Will they charge a fee to get in? Can I just tell them I'm an Uber driver and beat the parking fee? Does Uber/Lyft give drivers ID cards or some way to validate they actually are working for the company? I've used Uber but I've never asked for identification.

I can't see them banning Uber/Lyft. It's becoming too mainstream in society today.

I can see them banning Uber/Lyft, One it's private property and Uber/Lyft cars DONT have hackney licenses, So I'm sure Disney will block them sooner than later just as MCO does and it will be ostensibly to 'Protect' guests against drivers who have not had proper background checks etc. I'm not saying the reason for the ban will have any basis in reality just that it will happen and because Disney is private property they are within their rights to deny anyone for any reason.

 

[21stamps]

This is why my money is on arrogance. Tourists hate these fees, and will avoid hotels that charge them, to the extent possible....and especially when the amenities aren't up to par. For Disney, I can see where they want in on the $$$$, but they further risk guests staying off property...up the street, for example. I think that this is trying to wring out more money from consumers who are taking shorter length of stays (eg see the 4 parks-4 days promotion).

Yes. A couple of points here,
I've already said, and I know some dispute it, that I think a lot of people have some kind of travel budget in mind before planning a vacay. It doesn't mean that it's set in stone, but a rough idea..and the price of something is not always the sole motivation if it fits in the budget.
Let's say Poly or GF for from $600+ to fees that now make it $670. Not a raise in price, added fees. "People" don't like that. I disagree with those here who think that people who stay at those resorts do so because they don't know any better, or don't travel elsewhere. I think most of these people are the ones who take more than Disney vacations, and more likely stay at higher end hotels when doing so. They know resort fees, they don't like them, but, based on the resort they may be willing to pay bc there isn't another comparable hotel...and mainly, because they can justify the amenities provided. If GF, Poly, and CR (etc) start charging for parking/resort fees..I think people could cut back their nights.. maybe by even only 1..because the value of expanding the budget wouldn't be there. How much would Disney benefit from people leaving 1 night early? Disney would be losing 1.5 days of spending. Maybe more..

 

[GoofGoof]

Untrue - parking lots are very expensive, they are just eaten up as normal capital expenses by most places. That's like saying A/C costs them next to nothing because other people don't charge for it either..

You can google and find lots of reports on the cost to upkeep both surface lots and garages.

I'm not going to split hairs on what it costs to pave or repair the parking lots. I'm wrong it's very expensive. The point was that the $30 per night per car is way more than it would cost to maintain the lots. It's a huge profit grab.

 

[21stamps]

Completely separate parts of the company. DVC reports its own numbers and the hotels report theirs. When they convert rooms to DVC it comes out of their numbers. They can still rent them out but they no longer factor into the hotel occupancy counts.


Not saying they are hurting for guests but they are reducing their inventory of hotel rooms by converting to DVC and taking rooms out of the counts for refurbishment helps inflate the numbers. It makes for good headlines but may not be real.

I thought you just said they counted in occupancy. That's why I was confused.lol

 

[GoofGoof]

I can see them banning Uber/Lyft, One it's private property and Uber/Lyft cars DONT have hackney licenses, So I'm sure Disney will block them sooner than later just as MCO does and it will be ostensibly to 'Protect' guests against drivers who have not had proper background checks etc. I'm not saying the reason for the ban will have any basis in reality just that it will happen and because Disney is private property they are within their rights to deny anyone for any reason.

I think that could actually upset some guests more than a resort fee.

 

[ford91exploder]

I think that could actually upset some guests more than a resort fee.

I agree but you have to look at it in context of the Mears/WDW relationship, I can't imagine that Mears is happy with Uber/Lyft cannibalizing their WDW business, Banning Uber/Lyft will please Mears who is the big dog in Taxi service at WDW plus runs the Mears Shuttle/Magical Express Buses

 

[GoofGoof]

I thought you just said they counted in occupancy. That's why I was confused.lol

I don't want to start a big debate over this because it's getting somewhat off topic, but DVC rooms are actually part of the occupancy numbers included in the SEC filings. They are converted to 2 bedroom equivalent rooms. I got this from a pretty reliable source. DVC is virtually full so that does inflate the occupancy numbers. Either way, the numbers are still very healthy. I think on one of the recent earnings calls they actually mentioned needing to add to available room capacity at WDW.

 

[GoofGoof]

I agree but you have to look at it in context of the Mears/WDW relationship, I can't imagine that Mears is happy with Uber/Lyft cannibalizing their WDW business, Banning Uber/Lyft will please Mears who is the big dog in Taxi service at WDW plus runs the Mears Shuttle/Magical Express Buses

What I think they could do is start their own Uber like service exclusive to WDW. Then ban Uber and Lyft. I think they had some surveys recently asking about people's desire to have more personal transportation services for a fee of course. Maybe they can use all the local Lifestylers as drivers

 

[21stamps]

I don't want to start a big debate over this because it's getting somewhat off topic, but DVC rooms are actually part of the occupancy numbers included in the SEC filings. They are converted to 2 bedroom equivalent rooms. I got this from a pretty reliable source. DVC is virtually full so that does inflate the occupancy numbers. Either way, the numbers are still very healthy. I think on one of the recent earnings calls they actually mentioned needing to add to available room capacity at WDW.

I get that. So are they counted as occupied because they are occupied on whatever night(s), or because they are 'sold' units?
P.s. I don't know where a debate is. It's Sunday. I'm sitting in a church undercroft.. can we skip the nastiness tonight?

 

[21stamps]

I agree but you have to look at it in context of the Mears/WDW relationship, I can't imagine that Mears is happy with Uber/Lyft cannibalizing their WDW business, Banning Uber/Lyft will please Mears who is the big dog in Taxi service at WDW plus runs the Mears Shuttle/Magical Express Buses

This is happening all over Orlando though..and everywhere else. I don't think you could find one car or taxi service who is happy about Uber and Lyft.lol

 

[L.C. Clench]

I don't want to start a big debate over this because it's getting somewhat off topic, but DVC rooms are actually part of the occupancy numbers included in the SEC filings. They are converted to 2 bedroom equivalent rooms. I got this from a pretty reliable source. DVC is virtually full so that does inflate the occupancy numbers. Either way, the numbers are still very healthy. I think on one of the recent earnings calls they actually mentioned needing to add to available room capacity at WDW.

Iger has said they want to add more hotels and I'm fairly sure there will be a rush to have at least one if not two done by the 50th. I also think that's when you'll most likely see resort fees put in place. People will come for the 50th regardless and they'll pay the fee because it's part of the deal with attending the 50th celebration. Once they do it then for return trips it's just part of the equation.

One final point on occupancy rates though. At the same time they announced occupancy was up I believe they also announced attendance was slightly down. Are we really to believe there are large numbers of people visit Orlando and stay on property but don't visit the parks?