Walt, Ub & Mickey...

[007mickey]

I had previously posted this question before but didn't get any responses but with the Ub Iwerks special on t.v. last night I thought I would put it back out.

The program indicated Ub was charged to come up with a new character to replace Oswald after Walt got back from New York. Really made it out that he was, I dare say, the creator of Mickey and Walt simply helped with Mickey's personality.

I always thought the story was the one (seen at DHS in "One Man's Dream") of Walt coming back on the train from New York after the Oswald rights debacle and coming up with the idea for Mortimer / Mickey (thanks Lilly). With Walt's sketches and idea, he worked with Ub to "refine" Mickey.

I have never done any real research on the subject, but is there really any debate over this or did I just misunderstand how they presented the "creation" story on the Ub special or did I misunderstand "One Man's Dream"?

 

[Scooter]

I think One Man's Dream purposely gives you the impression that Walt was the creator of Mickey Mouse when in fact it was Ub Iwerks that came up with the original concept of a Mouse character.

The story I read was that Mr Iwerks drew up a bunch of animal cartoon charactors and a Mouse was one of them. Walt picked the mouse and gave him the name of Mortimer which was eventually changed to Mickey. (Walts wife's idea)

So while it did indeed, all start with a Mouse, it was Ub Iwerks mouse character that evolved into the present day Mickey Mouse. Walt gave Mickey a name and a personallity. Teamwork at it's best!

 

[007mickey]

With my curiousity peaked, I was able to find the audio/video of the segment in "One Man's Dream" that I was referring to in my earlier post. It goes like this (from Walt):

"He popped out of my mind onto a drawing pad from the train ride from Manhattan to Hollywood..."

Now this is a little different than the version portrayed in the Ub Iwerks special. I'm sure to most this sounds nonsensical to worry or ask about such a thing but I'm a detail oriented guy who just found it odd that there seems to be a difference in the initial creation of an icon like Mickey.

And in the end, it really doesn't matter how it all happened...I'm just glad it did.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Neal Gabler cites both Mickey "creation stories" in his biography, leaving it up to the reader to pick between them or synthesize them. It seems plausible that Walt came into the studio with a mouse drawing he'd made on a train and then charged Iwerks with refining the character into something usable, just as a way of accepting both versions.

However, another recurring theme in Gabler's book is the idea that Walt often exaggerated, dramatized or just invented from whole cloth parts of his life story, so it's also plausible that the whole train ride story was just made up for PR purposes. I don't know if there's a really definitive answer.

 

[mcjaco]

Ub really was the mastermind behind most of the characters in the warly years. I think Walt just added character and direction to Ub's drawings.

 

[007mickey]

I'm sure the truth lies somewhere between the Disney version and the Iwerks version. I just found it interesting that there are two stories surrounding the creation of Mickey Mouse.

Does Neal Gabler have ties or realtionships with Disney (the man or company)?

 

[Wilt Dasney]

Does Neal Gabler have ties or realtionships with Disney (the man or company)?

Not officially that I know of, but he does claim to be the only biographer given complete access to the Disney archives.

 

[wdwmemories]

I can see how both stories could have bits of truth, and the real answer is that there was collaboration. Thanks for sharing the info!

 

[oochr1soo]

If you read one of those disney books, i forget the name but i think Bob THomas is the author, it also mentions Ub coming up with Mickey i believe.. I 'll have to skim back in the chapters to find if it matches up with that..

 

[princess_dboo]

I just wanted to say I just did the Mickey's Magical Milestones tour at MK and our tour guide also went with the train story. I too believe it was the collaboration of the two that made Mickey. Our tour guide, Scott told us that Walt was quickly trying to come up with a character to present so he wouldn't lose his job, and sketched out a mouse...the whole Mortimer/Mickey story is the same. Our tour guide gave us pieces of paper and had our group try to draw Mickey on the train....so who knows? LOL

Very interesting.

 

[007mickey]

It does make for an intriguing difference between the two stories.

No one can deny Walt's creativity and I can certainly see the purpose of declaring Walt the initial creator of Mickey with that infamous train ride home from New York. I can also see the Iwerks family feeling like Ub never got his due with Walt's success that went beyond the animation field.

On the other hand, I can see how giving someone other than Walt credit for Mickey just doesn't have the same "charm" to it for all the Walt Disney loving fans out there and for p.r. purposes of the Disney empire.

It would seem to me that the true animation lovers can't mention Walt without including Ub. Quite honestly, that is the way it should be. It's very rare somebody makes it big without some help from some good friends along the way. In Walt's case, you can't discount the impact that Ub (the talent) and Roy (the business man) had on Walt (the visionary) and his success.

 

[Missing20K]

I could be wrong but I thought there was a lawsuit somewhat recently between the estate of Iwerks and Disney over some of the characters. Anyone else remember this or have info? I did a quick search but came up empty.

 

[maelstrom]

According to my mother, who is currently reading Neal Gabler's book, Ub Iwerks created Mickey Mouse, with Walt getting the majority of the credit. People would come up to Walt and ask him to draw Mickey Mouse, and he'd hand the paper to Ub for him to draw Mickey, and then Walt would sign it. Eventually, Ub became fed up with this and told Walt to "draw his own damn Mickey". I'll read the book myself when she's done.

 

[C&D]

Drawing the mouse and coming up with the idea is two different things. I think the 'idea' is paramount to the actual cartoon (although the correct image is pretty important too). Not taking away from Ub, but Walt is the architect here.

 

[Scooter]

For what it's worth...Here's Wikipedia's version:

In the spring of 1928, Disney lost control of the Oswald character, and much of his staff was hired away; Disney soon left Universal afterwards.[6] Disney asked Ub Iwerks, who stayed on, to start drawing up new character ideas. Iwerks tried sketches of frogs, dogs, and cats, but none of these appealed to Disney. A female cow and male horse were created at this time by Iwerks, but were also rejected. They would later turn up as Clarabelle Cow and Horace Horsecollar.[7] Ub Iwerks eventually got inspiration from an old drawing. In 1925, Hugh Harman drew some sketches of mice around a photograph of Walt Disney. These inspired Ub Iwerks to create a new mouse character for Disney, eventually called Mickey Mouse.[8] Thus, in a very real sense, Iwerks can be called the true creator of Mickey Mouse because Iwerks, and not Disney, originated the character.

 

[the-reason14]

Wow, I never knew that. It makes you look at things differently, or atleast think about things differently.

 

[007mickey]

One would think on an issue as big as this one is to Disney and fans alike that the truth would not be so hard to find.

"One Man's Dream" is probably a little slanted as well as the Ub version. It is easy to imagine a rift there with what all went on between Walt and Ub.

You know Walt had some hand in creating the character we all love since he voiced Mickey and brought the personality to him. So, right or wrong (since no one can prove otherwise), I'll go with Walt coming up with the idea and Ub bringing it alive on paper.

 

[C&D]

And........................Walt had a pet mouse at one time; might as well throw that out into to mix.