Walt - "Disney World will not be a place that is used to sink your money"

[imagineer boy]

Count me among those that really get a kick out of Dinorama. I was very suprised that people needed to be "told" the backstory. I mean, I can't think I figured out everything in that detailed backstory, but I've never been sure why people don't immediatly get
"look, it's like those great Route 66 style tourist traps that would set up around a place where dino fossils were found". I didnt need the whole story about Chester and Hester to get that and enjoy it. I've always thought it was one of the more thoughtfully themed areas in all the parks. Oh well, Dinorama is just one of those few things where I'll disagree with a vast majority on here.

As for the games, it's not like they are rigged so you cannot win like some carnivals. They dont scream at you to embarass you to play, and I've never seen anyone tied down and forced to spend their money on one of the games. They fit in exactly with the theme of the area, and are not too obtrusive or obnoxious.

I agree completely.

But even though I have been defending Dinorama, I will say this. It is rather insulting that managment thought building dinorama would encourage more visits to AK. I think dinorama is cute, but come on, I'm not going to make a special trip just for some carnival rides and games.:lol:

Plus the themeing isn't horribly cohesive in all of Dinoland. One moment you're walking through an area seriously themed to dinosaurs, then you're walking through wacky tourist dinosaur area, then back to serious dinosaurs again. If the areas were better sectioned off, it would feel better.

 

[Vernonpush]

I agree completely.

But even though I have been defending Dinorama, I will say this. It is rather insulting that managment thought building dinorama would encourage more visits to AK. I think dinorama is cute, but come on, I'm not going to make a special trip just for some carnival rides and games.:lol:

Plus the themeing isn't horribly cohesive in all of Dinoland. One moment you're walking through an area seriously themed to dinosaurs, then you're walking through wacky tourist dinosaur area, then back to serious dinosaurs again. If the areas were better sectioned off, it would feel better.

When AK first opened there was a better transition (if I remember right). From Countdown to Extinction you walked through areas that had scientific teams in a large tent working on recently discovered fossils and then there were large scale skeletal dinosaur "fossil" exhibits/ reconstructions leading to Hester & Chester's Store. I think when the research on the new fossils ended Disney panicked and threw up Dinorama to fill space. Kind of like Pooh's Playful Spot. Except in this instance, it's not a "Placeholder" like PPS. We're stuck with it for a while.

 

[fosse76]

When AK first opened there was a better transition (if I remember right). From Countdown to Extinction you walked through areas that had scientific teams in a large tent working on recently discovered fossils and then there were large scale skeletal dinosaur "fossil" exhibits/ reconstructions leading to Hester & Chester's Store. I think when the research on the new fossils ended Disney panicked and threw up Dinorama to fill space. Kind of like Pooh's Playful Spot. Except in this instance, it's not a "Placeholder" like PPS. We're stuck with it for a while.

That wasn't part of the themeing. Disney was one of several major corporations who financed the acquisition of Sue the Dinosaur for The Field Museum of Natural History in Chicago. As such, the Field Museum sent a team of scientists to do some fossil work at Disney (a team also did the work on display at the museum as well). Disney received a model of the completed dinosaur.

 

[BrerFrog]

If Disney decided to cut the FLE budget considerably, and instead of being the WS of Disney's Fantasy movies, like many of us are expecting, it turned out to be a cheap-looking forest that conveniently had a backstory that gave reason to its cheapness, would we be happy?

I know I wouldn't.

 

[Alektronic]

I agree completely.

But even though I have been defending Dinorama, I will say this. It is rather insulting that managment thought building dinorama would encourage more visits to AK. I think dinorama is cute, but come on, I'm not going to make a special trip just for some carnival rides and games.:lol:

Plus the themeing isn't horribly cohesive in all of Dinoland. One moment you're walking through an area seriously themed to dinosaurs, then you're walking through wacky tourist dinosaur area, then back to serious dinosaurs again. If the areas were better sectioned off, it would feel better.

That is one of the main reasons I don't like DinoRama, it was just a cheap subsitute of what was originally planned. They were just trying to cut costs in the good old Paul Pressler era. They actual plans had a lot better land usage and integration. Better use of the rides the "Excavator" and other things that were going to be used to tie in the Dig Site and the Boneyard. They actually had big plans for the Cretaceous Trail.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Why do people hate Dinorama so much:shrug:
There are plenty of things at Disney that I don't care for bou I don't dwell on them I just pass them by on my way to something I like because I know there are other people who do like these things and Disney is a place for everyone not my personal theme park.
Lighten up apparently there is a group of people for every attraction at Disney or they would get rid of it and build something else.

Cause Disney fanboys need something to complain about or else they won't be happy... :lol:

 

[Captain Chaos]

I don't understand all this hate. It's there and it's going to stay for a while. If you don't like it, no one is forcing you to go to Dinorama. Just enjoy your day somewhere else.

This topic always comes up, does it look cheap? Yes. It's suppose to look that way though. That's the theme.

And I agree with the comment above, these times are different. It's not the 60's anymore. Walt's ideas are still living on today but there always changing. Like Walt said we must keep moving forward. He knew Disneyland or Disney World wouldn't be the same as the times change. This is why we (well me) love going to the parks because they are always changing.

Love this quote... Funny you say this.. Disney fans are always screaming about losing the past and complain when the company makes decisions to move forward into the future... yet these same people worship a man who's entire thought process was.. MOVING INTO THE FUTURE... Kind of ironic huh???

 

[Dragonrider1227]

You also have to consider Walt's feelings about carnival midways in context with his time and the rest of his story about them.

To Walt carnivals were dirty places run by questionable folks, and carried a stigma he was trying desperately to distance himself from. He had to focus on the positive differences Disneyland would have in terms of a carnival because at the time there was no other place like Disneyland to compare it to, so people had no other frame of reference.

But today? You can't really compare the kitchy little midway in Animal Kingdom to carnivals of Walt's day because they are nothing alike. Animal Kingdom's midway is clean, harmless, and meant to evoke idealized memories of that kind of place. It's hardly any kind of literal translation showing a violation some kind of "Walt Rule."

Exactly how I feel. Plus, in Walt's day that type of carnival was everywhere but nowadays, many of them have closed (Mainly due to Disney's success) so now it's Nostalgic and if there's anything Walt was for, it was indulging nostalgia.
Wasn't Walt originally not going to put Roller Coasters in Disneyland? But then got the idea for The Matterhorn...

 

[wolf359]

Wasn't Walt originally not going to put Roller Coasters in Disneyland? But then got the idea for The Matterhorn...

That's one of the reasons I don't find a lot of benefit in worrying too much about the "what would Walt do" kind of scenarios. Not only will we never know what Walt would think about all of the many, many things that happened after his death, but when placed in context many of the things Walt said were completely contradicted by the things he actually did.

Sometimes circumstances change, and sometimes you just plain change your mind, that's just how real life works.

 

[SeaBase86]

Love this quote... Funny you say this.. Disney fans are always screaming about losing the past and complain when the company makes decisions to move forward into the future... yet these same people worship a man who's entire thought process was.. MOVING INTO THE FUTURE... Kind of ironic huh???

It is. I also find it funny that most Disney parks fans love Epcot, which was based off the idea of the future of our planet and how we are progressing in the fields of transportation, energy, etc. but are always complaining for the old Epcot. The park is about the future not living in the past. Horizons, JII, and unfortunately The Living Seas are never coming back. Let's be happy that the company is progressing and creating better experiences (FLE, ST 2.0).

Everyone will never be completely satisfied.

 

[minniemickeyfan]

I know the story behind Dinoland. I just don't like it because it just looks tacky to me, but then I have never liked Carnivals anyway. Can't they put some potted trees or something on the parking lot?

 

[Dragonrider1227]

I know Disneyland used to, but did Disney World ever use the Ticket book system? If so, then I'd call that a way to "sink your money."

It is. I also find it funny that most Disney parks fans love Epcot, which was based off the idea of the future of our planet and how we are progressing in the fields of transportation, energy, etc. but are always complaining for the old Epcot. The park is about the future not living in the past. Horizons, JII, and unfortunately The Living Seas are never coming back. Let's be happy that the company is progressing and creating better experiences (FLE, ST 2.0).

Everyone will never be completely satisfied.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/MAin/UnpleasableFanbase :lol:

 

[ScorpionX]

Because they specifically designed that part of Animal Kingdom to be a "Carnival"....there is a whole book out there devoted to why. See "The Imagineering Field Guide to Disney's Animal Kingdom."

As to Walt's original quote - he was referring to Disneyland. He wasn't even alive when Walt Disney World opened.

Disneyland has carnival-style games in Paradise Pier at Disney's California Adventure.

 

[captainkidd]

I agree completely. I think people are too hard on dinorama sometimes because they don't get the idea behind it. And believe it or not, it actually has some genuinely good themeing. Look at the pavement, its all patched up like the carnival was built over an old parking lot.

I've never had a problem with the back story or the theme of it. What I have a problem with is I think Disney Imagineers are capable of so much more. It's a theme park devoted to Animals, in a section devoted to Dinosaurs. When you see what Universal has done with Jurassic Park, then look at a cheap ride like Primeval Whirl, that brakes down constantly, it's disappointing.

 

[sublimesting]

I wish dinorama wasn't there at all. They should re-theme it to something like Beastly Kingdom.:lookaroun

 

[paul436]

Sorry, I've always been aware of the back story behind Dinorama and still think it's cheap and a waste of space.

Yeah, me too. I just think they can do something better. :shrug:

 

[jlevis]

i get irritated when we go through dinoland in ak. ... personally i feel like it cheapens the whole experience.

Agreed, it's kind of like you've made a wrong turn and ended up in a different park. I can't quite make the connection between Dinorama and the rest of the park. We avoid the area it's sleezy.

 

[LaughingGravy]

I've tried multiple times to wrap my head around the Dinoland backstory.
It still comes off as a cheap and easy thing to do in order to expand, with an "explanation of a backstory". Yeah, that's the ticket
While there is no carnival barking harassment to play the games, it simply reminds me that I'm being nickeled and dimed to death, so to speak, as it's multiple dollars to even try a game.

-Build something, as we need expansion, but x amount of property has to have a $ value return, none of these included things for the price of admission like we have at the other parks.

It's as close to gambling on property as they can get without crossing the line.

IMO...there is a whole book out there devoted to why. See "The Imagineering Field Guide to the justification of Disney's Animal Kingdom when we could have done so much better."

It's difficult enough to get my DW (not so D) to agree to spend money on a Disney Vacation, and then she gets there and sees that. I'll simply say it didn't go over well.

 

[jakeman]

I've tried multiple times to wrap my head around the Dinoland backstory.
It still comes off as a cheap and easy thing to do in order to expand, with an "explanation of a backstory". Yeah, that's the ticket
While there is no carnival barking harassment to play the games, it simply reminds me that I'm being nickeled and dimed to death, so to speak, as it's multiple dollars to even try a game.

-Build something, as we need expansion, but x amount of property has to have a $ value return, none of these included things for the price of admission like we have at the other parks.

It's as close to gambling on property as they can get without crossing the line.

IMO...there is a whole book out there devoted to why. See "The Imagineering Field Guide to the justification of Disney's Animal Kingdom when we could have done so much better."

It's difficult enough to get my DW (not so D) to agree to spend money on a Disney Vacation, and then she gets there and sees that. I'll simply say it didn't go over well.

Your argument may actually be valid if the backstory wasn't there before Dinorama.

 

[erasure fan1]

In all the years we have been going to the AK, we have never even walked past the carnival games. We just dont care. As to the dino-rama theme, here is my view. The theme is well done and they accomplished what they set out to do. This is my problem, when I first heard Disney was doing a land with dinosaurs, I completely flipped out. I was obsessed with dinosaurs as a kid so I was so excited to see what Disney would do with this area. It was all just a bit underwhelming, especially knowing what Disney is capable of. While in no way would I call it horrid, and I really like going there but I cant help but feel like there could have been something extraordinary there instead.