News Walt Disney World says goodbye to the final remnants of its COVID-19 safety protocols

[MisterPenguin]

Universal/IOA, SeaWorld still don't think it's crazy.

Well... in March, Universal sent out a survey asking its passholders what they thought of reservations...

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Wow, lots to address here.

1. Before the pandemic, Iger recognized that guest enjoyment of the parks were measurably lower (GSATS) when it was overcrowded. That hurt the brand. People can't pay for overpriced meals if all the restaurants are already full. They're just standing there trying to find food at QS's that don't have a 30 minute line. They leave, and they don't come back. This hurts "the brand" and "the brand" is Disney's most valuable asset. It makes people pay extra not only for really good services and goods... but they'll also give Disney a pass and pay extra for stuff that's only 'meh.'

2. So, Disney had been looking for ways to reduce peak attendance and bring in more people to the 'off times' so that the parks would be constantly and comfortably full for maximum profit.

3. So, Disney kept raising prices while offering discounts to the dead-times, to even out the highs and lows. The holiday parties in the Fall were to entice more people to those previous dead times, and that worked tremendously.

4. And yet, park overcrowding still happened, especially at MK. They were a victim of their own success. And so, let's make this clear: IT WASN'T WORKING PERFECTLY LIKE YOU CLAIM IT WAS. At least, not in the past decade. Millions more people were crowding into WDW year after year and it seemed no matter how much Disney jacked up the prices way above inflation and the cost of living, more and more people attended WDW every year. This is what happens when anyone with a ticket or AP can show up whenever they want, and they all show up on the same weekend and holiday days creating a very unpleasant overcrowding situation. It wasn't working.

5. Park reservations was the obvious answer, but, it was also the nuclear option, since guests would hate the restrictions it imposed. Something which I kept on saying on these forums for years before the pandemic.

6. When the pandemic hit, do you remember "six foot distancing"? You can't let the usual 50,000 people enter the MK and maintain six foot distancing. On top of that, the governments weren't letting large entertainment venues operate at full capacity and limited them to just 10% or 25% or 50% of normal. But, when Disney sells "any time tickets" and has tons of AP holders, how do they limit attendance? With park reservations. The pandemic pretty much forced them to limit capacity.

7. So, how do you limit capacity? Well, on Christmas or New Years Day, you can just turn people away at the tapstile and tell them you're full because there's an hour line to use the restrooms, like WDW has done in the past. (See, it didn't always work in the past). Or, you can make people make reservations so you never get to that level of attendance that overwhelms the facilities and your staffing.

8. So, yes, park reservations, which was always an option, but a nuclear one, was the only real solution, due to severe capacity reductions imposed by the pandemic.

9. And yes, of course they're keeping it. And I understand the hate for it. I struggled with it on my visits in December and May. But, it's the only solution that will work to keep capacity from overwhelming staffing (and there is still a labor shortage despite some peoples' disbelief). The only other solution is to keep raising prices dramatically until they find the tipping point at which people won't pay... and apparently, it's much, much higher than anyone thought it would be.

I understand you want to go the MK anytime you want. But so do 21 million other people. And letting them all chose whatever day they want is just crazy. There will be days that just too many show up. What do you do, let in 90,000 people into the MK to live in 2 hour long lines and scrambling to find something to eat in 40 minute lines?

[And yes, Disney's fault for not increasing capacity, but what if consumer demand constantly outstripped increased capacity?]

I don’t disagree with anything you said, I just find it odd their solution to lower guest enjoyment was creating a system that has caused more guest dissatisfaction than anything they’ve done in the parks 67 year history.

The “solution” has just changed what people are unhappy about.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I don’t disagree with anything you said, I just find it odd their solution to lower guest enjoyment was creating a system that has caused more guest dissatisfaction than anything they’ve done in the parks 67 year history.

The “solution” has just changed what people are unhappy about.

They should have just announced attendance caps and turned away thousands at the gates creating crowds that show up earlier and earlier just to make sure they can get into the park.

And *then* introduce the park reservation system. People would've been praising Disney for it!!

 

[sullyinMT]

Well... in March, Universal sent out a survey asking its passholders what they thought of reservations...

For now, UOR's system is working for them (no reservations). But the recent record attendance for Q2(?) must be pushing them to the brink of discomfort.

While I'd imagine the large majority of tickets are park to park just because of proximity and Hogwarts' Express, and I can't imagine them limiting "hopping" to after x o'clock because of WWoHP's setup, I fully expect reservations to become a thing when Epic Universe opens. At least for a season until they figure out demand patterns.

 

[Lilofan]

Wow, lots to address here.

1. Before the pandemic, Iger recognized that guest enjoyment of the parks were measurably lower (GSATS) when it was overcrowded. That hurt the brand. People can't pay for overpriced meals if all the restaurants are already full. They're just standing there trying to find food at QS's that don't have a 30 minute line. They leave, and they don't come back. This hurts "the brand" and "the brand" is Disney's most valuable asset. It makes people pay extra not only for really good services and goods... but they'll also give Disney a pass and pay extra for stuff that's only 'meh.'

2. So, Disney had been looking for ways to reduce peak attendance and bring in more people to the 'off times' so that the parks would be constantly and comfortably full for maximum profit.

3. So, Disney kept raising prices while offering discounts to the dead-times, to even out the highs and lows. The holiday parties in the Fall were to entice more people to those previous dead times, and that worked tremendously.

4. And yet, park overcrowding still happened, especially at MK. They were a victim of their own success. And so, let's make this clear: IT WASN'T WORKING PERFECTLY LIKE YOU CLAIM IT WAS. At least, not in the past decade. Millions more people were crowding into WDW year after year and it seemed no matter how much Disney jacked up the prices way above inflation and the cost of living, more and more people attended WDW every year. This is what happens when anyone with a ticket or AP can show up whenever they want, and they all show up on the same weekend and holiday days creating a very unpleasant overcrowding situation. It wasn't working.

5. Park reservations was the obvious answer, but, it was also the nuclear option, since guests would hate the restrictions it imposed. Something which I kept on saying on these forums for years before the pandemic.

6. When the pandemic hit, do you remember "six foot distancing"? You can't let the usual 50,000 people enter the MK and maintain six foot distancing. On top of that, the governments weren't letting large entertainment venues operate at full capacity and limited them to just 10% or 25% or 50% of normal. But, when Disney sells "any time tickets" and has tons of AP holders, how do they limit attendance? With park reservations. The pandemic pretty much forced them to limit capacity.

7. So, how do you limit capacity? Well, on Christmas or New Years Day, you can just turn people away at the tapstile and tell them you're full because there's an hour line to use the restrooms, like WDW has done in the past. (See, it didn't always work in the past). Or, you can make people make reservations so you never get to that level of attendance that overwhelms the facilities and your staffing.

8. So, yes, park reservations, which was always an option, but a nuclear one, was the only real solution, due to severe capacity reductions imposed by the pandemic.

9. And yes, of course they're keeping it. And I understand the hate for it. I struggled with it on my visits in December and May. But, it's the only solution that will work to keep capacity from overwhelming staffing (and there is still a labor shortage despite some peoples' disbelief). The only other solution is to keep raising prices dramatically until they find the tipping point at which people won't pay... and apparently, it's much, much higher than anyone thought it would be.

I understand you want to go the MK anytime you want. But so do 21 million other people. And letting them all chose whatever day they want is just crazy. There will be days that just too many show up. What do you do, let in 90,000 people into the MK to live in 2 hour long lines and scrambling to find something to eat in 40 minute lines?

[And yes, Disney's fault for not increasing capacity, but what if consumer demand constantly outstripped increased capacity?]

On NYE at Epcot which I enjoy attending there are thousands that stake out their place starting at 12 noon around the lake waiting for the midnight fireworks. Those folks won’t be waiting in lines .

 

[Disstevefan1]

Well... in March, Universal sent out a survey asking its passholders what they thought of reservations...

That could possibly be bad.

When Disney puts a question like that in a survey it translates to, "We will be adding a reservation requirement"

Since its Universal they could possibly actually asking the question and the obvious answer is that passholders would not like reservations.

 

[mmascari]

I understand you want to go the MK anytime you want. But so do 21 million other people. And letting them all chose whatever day they want is just crazy. There will be days that just too many show up. What do you do, let in 90,000 people into the MK to live in 2 hour long lines and scrambling to find something to eat in 40 minute lines?

I would like them to offer a way to buy yourself out of this. Sold at a price or (capped quantity) that is small enough that it works.

Perhaps a new ticket that costs twice as much (or more?). Not the best. Plus, you already pick a ticket start date.
Perhaps a much higher priced park hopper that removes all hopping time restrictions. Ticket still locked to certain days.
Perhaps a slightly higher priced park hopper that moves up the hopping time.
Perhaps a day of instead of entire stay park hopper upcharge to move up the hopping time. Maybe variable base on how much earlier.

Each of those, in reverse order, would add more cost but also remove some restrictions. Then, I could choose how much restrictions vs cost I'm willing to accept. Just like there is already Park Hopper and Park Hopper Plus at different costs. Similar to how Southwest prices Business Select, Anytime, Wanna Get Away Plus, and Wanna Get Away. They're all for the same flight but with different restrictions.

Have them figure out a way to allow me to buy my way out of the restrictions. Maybe I'll accept that, maybe I will not.

Turning people away at the turnstile is clearly the worst possible option. All of these are stop gaps to being able to support more guests than are showing up (just a little bit more, not wasteful amounts more).

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Well, the park pass reservation system is/was ALLWAYS created ONLY as staffing management tool, but TWDC USED COVID as an excuse to launch this system.

An unfortunately it is here to stay. I personally hate it BTW.

Pssst... remember when you'd sign up for FastPass+ 60 days in advance?

You've been picking your park ahead of time since 2013.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

They should have just announced attendance caps and turned away thousands at the gates creating crowds that show up earlier and earlier just to make sure they can get into the park.

And *then* introduce the park reservation system. People would've been praising Disney for it!!

Supply and demand is much simpler than that, if demand is higher than supply you raise your prices until they match.

They half heartedly tried this with surge pricing but they didn’t go far enough. Weekdays are now overpriced while weekends are still underpriced.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Pssst... remember when you'd sign up for FastPass+ 60 days in advance?

You've been picking your park ahead of time since 2013.

A super poor analogy.

Getting, or not getting, a FassPass did not prohibit me from entering any park on any given day.

There is no rationalization that will make park pass reservations look good (to me).

Perhaps if Park Pass Reservations existed since 1955 or 1971 then I wouldn't know any better and there would be no problem, but I think it's the loss of the freedom I felt as a guest after all these decades, a freedom that is now lost, that really stings.

I am sincerely happy for you @CaptainAmerica , to you, everything TWDC does or doesn't do is correct and justified. It really makes your life as a Disney fan wonderful.

 

[JoeCamel]

They should have just announced attendance caps and turned away thousands at the gates creating crowds that show up earlier and earlier just to make sure they can get into the park.

And *then* introduce the park reservation system. People would've been praising Disney for it!!

They used to be so good at managing people.....

 

[Disstevefan1]

They should have just announced attendance caps and turned away thousands at the gates creating crowds that show up earlier and earlier just to make sure they can get into the park.

And *then* introduce the park reservation system. People would've been praising Disney for it!!

For decades they did just fine at WDW; from time to time, they would close a park to capacity. I was never turned away.

I can't remember exactly since it was so rare. I think on site guests could enter the park and only folks driving in was told to go to another park. I also seem to remember the news would announce that the Magic Kingdom was closed to capacity for example.

My point is, this is not new, and they were somehow, someway able to magically handle this without park pass reservations in the past.

 

[MisterPenguin]

They used to be so good at managing people.....

Banks do a great job managing their customers, until they all want to withdraw their full account value at the same time...

 

[Sir_Cliff]

For now, UOR's system is working for them (no reservations). But the recent record attendance for Q2(?) must be pushing them to the brink of discomfort.

While I'd imagine the large majority of tickets are park to park just because of proximity and Hogwarts' Express, and I can't imagine them limiting "hopping" to after x o'clock because of WWoHP's setup, I fully expect reservations to become a thing when Epic Universe opens. At least for a season until they figure out demand patterns.

I don't know about that. I would have thought the opening of a new park would address capacity issues across the resort more than it would exacerbate them. Even if there is a mad rush to visit that particular park, I wonder whether it couldn't be dealt with in the usual way with AP previews, etc. and in the worst case scenario it just closes occasionally and guests have a relatively short trip to other Uni parks which will likely see some of their attendance cannibalised.

They could well want to introduce reservations for many of the same reasons Disney likes them, but making Universal the easier, hassle free Orlando theme park vacation destination as opposed to all the work involved in visiting WDW seems like a smart move if they are not also at the point where they can't manage attendance.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I don't know about that. I would have thought the opening of a new park would address capacity issues across the resort more than it would exacerbate them. Even if there is a mad rush to visit that particular park, I wonder whether it couldn't be dealt with in the usual way with AP previews, etc. and in the worst case scenario it just closes occasionally and guests have a relatively short trip to other Uni parks which will likely see some of their attendance cannibalised.

They could well want to introduce reservations for many of the same reasons Disney likes them, but making Universal the easier, hassle free Orlando theme park vacation destination as opposed to all the work involved in visiting WDW seems like a smart move if they are not also at the point where they can't manage attendance.

Universal is a bit like Disneyland... it's a passholder park. The risk to perceived crowding isn't more people, it's the same number of people visiting more frequently.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

making Universal the easier, hassle free Orlando theme park vacation destination as opposed to all the work involved in visiting WDW seems like a smart move if they are not also at the point where they can't manage attendance.

If they are smart they’ll avoid reservations until/unless they’re absolutely necessary, they are about to get a huge influx of people trying out other vacations.

If hotel prices are any indication Universals demand is already way up though, I’ve heard for years how cheap Universal is but there’s nothing cheap about their hotel prices next January, sure they’re cheaper than Disney but I wouldn’t call $250 a night for a moderate or $500 a night for a deluxe cheap... and $360 for 2 day park hoppers is insane, we may just pay the extra $50 and get the cheap APs just in case we decide to make another trip next year.

 

[sullyinMT]

I don't know about that. I would have thought the opening of a new park would address capacity issues across the resort more than it would exacerbate them. Even if there is a mad rush to visit that particular park, I wonder whether it couldn't be dealt with in the usual way with AP previews, etc. and in the worst case scenario it just closes occasionally and guests have a relatively short trip to other Uni parks which will likely see some of their attendance cannibalised.

They could well want to introduce reservations for many of the same reasons Disney likes them, but making Universal the easier, hassle free Orlando theme park vacation destination as opposed to all the work involved in visiting WDW seems like a smart move if they are not also at the point where they can't manage attendance.

You may very well be correct. There's a lot of hype around a new gate, though, and a big influx without crowd management of some sort could sour early expectations. I love the hassle free aspect for all that it is when we visit Universal. But it could become far less hassle free in 2025 if everyone rushes Epic's gates everyday and "nobody" is at the other parks.

Universal is a bit like Disneyland... it's a passholder park. The risk to perceived crowding isn't more people, it's the same number of people visiting more frequently.

It's a passholders' park now, but they clearly have designs to change that perception. A massive new gate and 1K+ new hotel rooms are coming that will make UOR a good choice for 6+ nights of your time, if you spend a day at VB.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

You may very well be correct. There's a lot of hype around a new gate, though, and a big influx without crowd management of some sort could sour early expectations. I love the hassle free aspect for all that it is when we visit Universal. But it could become far less hassle free in 2025 if everyone rushes Epic's gates everyday and "nobody" is at the other parks.

I guess I just don't see it as very likely that Epic Universe gets slammed while the other parks sit empty. It's a big park with a lot of attractions, so it should be able to absorb a significant amount of demand without resorting to park reservations even if that first summer is particularly crowded. It's not opening like DAK did with very few attractions, for example. Maybe there are plenty of examples where this did happen, but I am always cautious when people start predicting mad hoards descending on a new theme park as through my lifetime that never seems to have quite happened and instead far more reshuffling seems to occur between existing parks.

Uni is in a very different place now than it was then, but I remember similar predictions about how IOA was really going to burst the Orlando theme park scene wide open and that park's take-off ended up being far rockier than everyone seemed to expect until Potter showed up.

 

[EthylCooper]

Sadly I don't think we'll get back to "normal" for a long time. The things like park passes are a real pain but they've said they're keeping that.

I think the only thing that will make them up their game again will be when Epic Universe opens as that really will start to pull people away from Disney parks. They spent years putting services in place to make it easier to stay on site, not have a car, and not go to Universal. But with paid resort parking, no magical express, no dining plan (I know people here hate it, but when its handed out free as part of a deal it's absolutely worth it) it's becoming far cheaper and more convenient to stay off site.

Combine that with the fact that Uni have a vastly better water park it just spells trouble for Disney once the new park opens.

The whole process feels like they sat around a board table and litterally said "What can we do to make it harder for people to visit our parks". All over their social media theres people complaining or commenting about how complex they've made it - they are well aware, but don't care.

Universal also has their merchandise pickup and resort delivery functions running. Disney STILL hasn't brought theirs back.

Disney is starting to lag behind Universal in quality. Attendance increases are largely stable and expected, and for their first three decades, Disney handled them appropriately, by opening a new park every 10 years to increase capacity. It's been 24 years since AK opened, and they want to pretend the only way to manage crowding is to jack up the prices. This comment is correct, they are intentionally making it harder to visit the parks, and counting on loyal fans to keep pretending that pricing out families is the only way to solve the problem.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

Have you actually been on a Disney cruise? I get what you are saying but honestly a Disney Cruise is nothing like a visit to a Disney Store even during the Disney Stores hey day. DCL has superior live entertainment compared to the parks and also vastly superior guest services. That "legendary guest service" WDW was once known for.... DCL still executes on today.

I’m absolutely sure the amenities are AAA+++, but again I’m asking the question, can I ride HM, CoP, BTMRR, etc? Nope, it’s just a Disney tease for me IMHO ONLY…