Walt, Bob, IP

[It Is What It Is]

After reading today's article in the NY Times on Bob Iger, my respect for the man goes up. He is what this company needed. And this company isn't only about Parks.

 

[Lilofan]

After reading today's article in the NY Times on Bob Iger, my respect for the man goes up. He is what this company needed. And this company isn't only about Parks.

I read it too. Not only the company, Wall Street and shareholders like myself.

 

[FigmentJedi]

I feel like one of the reasons park fans get so emotionally attached to park-original content is that they often explore genres and settings Disney scarcely digs into in film. Like there's a ton of "Fantasyland" movies in Disney's Animation output, but not a lot that fall under the other cardinal realms (Plus most of their "Adventureland" movies are talking animal stories). And I'm pretty sure the Venn Diagram of "People who enjoy the S.E.A. lore" and "Atlantis the Lost Empire fans" is a near perfect circle.

 

[bubbles1812]

Frequently.

It’s all about balance. And the Bobs have none.

Ah... those times it gets up to a 15 minute wait then? I’m kidding, I’m kidding... but it’s never crowded and obviously not a huge draw. (I’ll allow that it moves a ton of people around very quickly).

I agree on the balance thing but having finally now seen some of the changes (ie Star Wars, Toy Story Land, ect) people have been griping about on the boards, I’ll be honest and say I think the OP has a point. Many on the board hold on so hard to the past that it’s impossible for them to embrace any changes other than what they think Walt would approve of, despite the long years since his death.

 

[NickMaio]

I waited 45 minutes for Living with the Land when I was last at Epcot in early March. The kids on the boat with me were very interested in the greenhouse items.

We shouldn’t dumb things down just so they will appeal to kids. That’s one thing Walt most certainly did not do.

“You’re dead if you aim only for kids.” - Walt Disney

Amen.....sadly though things are changing and some not for the better.
Edutainment is sadly a dying artform. That is why I grew up loving Epcot as a child. It was the one place I could learn and remember things without trying. Epcot really spoke to all the curious minds of the world.

 

[MuteSuperstar]

Test Track 2.

Shocked on that one.

 

[Walt Disney1955]

There has to be a nice balance. Walt originally had a very good balance with Disneyland. Even up until his death he was doing both. Matterhorn was not a movie. Pirates, Small World, Lincoln, Carousel of Progress, Country Bears, Haunted Mansion, etc. This was up until his death. The last movie he was part of I believe was Jungle Book. To this day, strangely, never an attraction based on it. Basically we have an 11 year window to see what Walt actually did and he did both, it wasn't lopsided. He had original ideas.

Disney needs this again.

 

[Walt Disney1955]

Amen.....sadly though things are changing and some not for the better.
Edutainment is sadly a dying artform. That is why I grew up loving Epcot as a child. It was the one place I could learn and remember things without trying. Epcot really spoke to all the curious minds of the world.

When I saw how depleted Innovations was at Epcot last year I was stunned. I doubled checked with a cast member that the Innovations East must have moved somewhere. No, it didn't. I don't know, what can you do?

 

[NickMaio]

When I saw how depleted Innovations was at Epcot last year I was stunned. I doubled checked with a cast member that the Innovations East must have moved somewhere. No, it didn't. I don't know, what can you do?

So crummy .. right.
I guess all these changes are part of a bigger picture that we can't see yet.
Call me crazy but my family really enjoys the opportunity to learn something new on vacation.

 

[It Is What It Is]

There has to be a nice balance. Walt originally had a very good balance with Disneyland. Even up until his death he was doing both. Matterhorn was not a movie. Pirates, Small World, Lincoln, Carousel of Progress, Country Bears, Haunted Mansion, etc. This was up until his death. The last movie he was part of I believe was Jungle Book. To this day, strangely, never an attraction based on it. Basically we have an 11 year window to see what Walt actually did and he did both, it wasn't lopsided. He had original ideas.

Disney needs this again.

Unfortunately Walt is dead. Are there any living candidates that you believe would do the job like Walt would? I don't know of anyone.

Me, I've got to live in the present. Iger isn't Walt, but in my opinion he has run the company well. Are the Parks IP heavy? Sure, but I still enjoy them. I think most people on these forums enjoy them to, or they wouldn't be on these forums. Just that many older ones here would rather live in days past.

I don't think Disney is looking what an old guy like me wants in the parks. They're only interested in me if they think I've got money to spend on cruises, pricey restaurants, DVC, etc. For attractions, I'm sure it's the younger generations Disney is handing the surveys to. They are the ones who have 30, 40, 50 years ahead to spend in the parks. And I wonder, do they care about IP over saturation?

 

[mharrington]

It is fascinating to watch the IP debates on the forums. So much angst. And part of me gets it: your beloved parks are changing. Change is very hard for some people, yet change is inevitable.

I'm sure I've crossed over into the latter half of life. A few years ago, I saw a commercial that didn't make sense to me, a younger friend said, “I learned that if you see an ad that you don't get, it wasn't made for you.” And the lightbulb went off: a lot of the time, I'm not the targeted demographic.

I think of this when I read the forums: the parks are changing for the younger generations. So many can't handle this but, it's going to happen. And a lot of it has to do with IP. When I think of IP, I'm sure these will be fighting words for many, I see similarities in Walt and Bob. Let me explain:

A young Walt, an entrepreneur, wanted to be in control of his destiny. Animation in film was the future and he was interested in getting involved. He dabbled in the business for a few years until Oswald the Lucky Rabbit did well in 1927. His first somewhat successful IP. An argument could be made that was a take on Felix the Cat which had been doing well since it's debut in 1919. Universal leveraged Oswald away from Walt in 1928. Mortimer Mouse took his place, I mean Mickey (thank you Lillian)! Walt was not the most talented artist in the room, Ub Iwerks was. But Walt, an entrepreneur, thought outside the box, “let's add sound!” Steamboat Willy/Mickey Mouse took off.

“Let's make a movie!”, decided Walt. Did he use original IP? No, he adapted a story that some German guy wrote nearly a century before and we now have Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. Pinocchio, Bambi, Cinderella, original IP? No, no, no. All works by someone else. Winnie the Pooh and Mary Poppins? Purchased IP.

Moving on to Disneyland, Walt the entrepreneur, saw how bad amusement parks were run before Disneyland. “I'm going to make a family friendly one”, the man thought. And he did. Walt saw something and knew how to plus it!

Let's look at the lands: Fantasyland, we know they were based on the film's which were not his IP. Frontierland? What was the hot show of 1954? Davy Crockett, king of the wild frontier, which is based on the man named Davy Crockett. Original IP? I don't think so. Main Street? Kind of based on the small towns of Walt’s life. Tomorrowland and Adventureland? Little boys were fascinated with space and safaris. There wasn't an internet to watch videos of your favorite subject back then. Bring that to the kids. It was smart business.

Rides: Haunted Mansion? Haunted homes walkthroughs became a thing during the Great Depression, Walt plussed the concept. He plussed it very well. Pirates of the Caribbean? Yes. Obviously, pirates had been around, but putting animatronics, pirates and a boat ride together was brilliant! Small World? Sure. But as you can see, the majority of what Walt did was based on existing ideas or works.

Walt is awesome and I'm glad his dreams came true because my life is better because of his dreams. The man, in my opinion, should be considered one of the best entrepreneurs of all time. Walt, as an entrepreneur, set the mold for Steve Jobs, Elon Musk and others.

But, what about Bob? No, the man is not an entrepreneur. But looking at the numbers, I would say that Bob is a better businessman than Walt. The Walt Disney Company was close to collapse a couple times under Walt. After Walt’s passing. the company got itself into financial trouble and was close to hostile takeover. It is unlikely now that there will be a takeover of the company. which would be all for the legacy of my favorite entrepreneur. Financially, the Walt Disney Company is in the best shape its ever been.

What about Bob and the Parks? Bob has invested in the Parks. I might not be the biggest Guardians of the Galaxy fan, doesn't mean the new roller coaster in Epcot isn't going to be well done. I didn't like the idea of Tower of Terror in California Adventure transitioning to GotG, but after riding it, I thought it was a better ride than ToT. Doesn't mean that I still don't like the concept of ToT better, but it is what it is. Three new ships coming online, very exciting! Galaxy's Edge looks incredible, I'm looking forward to that visit! Toy Story Land, better than I expected. Watching Epcot evolve, I'm fascinated by it. Brazil in World Showcase? Hopefully! What the minds of these Imagineers can up with, wow! Have you ridden Flight of Passage?

Bob is buying relevant IP and he is adding it to the parks at lightning speed. More and more IP is going to get added as the years go by. If that's what is going to draw the younger generations, that is what is going to happen. I'm sure Bob would like a redo with Harry Potter and JK Rowling, the young people in my life love Harry Potter. Simpson's in the parks one day? I'm not crazy about it, but it is what it is. There is a balance to appeasing the older and younger. And sometimes Disney adjusts, not right, not wrong, as with the case with putting merchandise in the Main Street Cinema in Disneyland. The older generations didn't like it and Disney pulled the merchandise out. But one day, unless it's given a Historical Landmark status, it will change, as it's usually empty in there and you don't see many young people in it. Why go stand in a room watching videos when they can do that anytime on their phones? But would Walt have bought and used the IP that Bob has? Who knows, but we know Walt was a buyer of IP and he used it in the parks. Bob is a buyer of IP and he uses it in the parks.

Change is happening under Bob. Dory and Nemo added to Small World. It's possible the younger generations like seeing these in Small World. Could Zootopia possibly be coming to Animal Kingdom? Could be, and I'll check it out if it does. Do you ever see more than a ten minute wait for Living with the Land? What if you added some IP to it? I bet you could get it up to a twenty minute wait easily. Paradise Pier becoming Pixar Pier? What is Bob thinking? We don't know, but if we don't like it or don't understand it, it's probably not meant for us.

Thanks a bunch for that statement! I think many people seem to forget or don't understand that Walt Disney and Bob Chapek are really two sides of the same coin, when it comes right down to it.

And also, isn't it kind of subjective what kind of IP is "bad" IP?

 

[HongKongFu]

Do you ever see more than a ten minute wait for Living with the Land?

What a baseless piece of rhetoric. You just threw that in to pad your argument thinking nobody would call you on it, no?

It often, like so many other attractions in WDW, has well over 10 minutes.

 

[Trackmaster]

I think that it would be foolish to think that a park like Disney -- with access to the best possible theme park IP available to them -- would never build any rides with IP. And if you think it, it wouldn't make sense to have a theme park chain with the name Disney to not have ANY.

I just think it needs to be a healthy mix. I just think that going back for many years, I really can't think of ANY non-IP rides that are new and not just refurbished or updated versions of older rides. I'm pretty sure that at least at WDW, all of the rides in the last several years, and all of the announced rides that I can think have ALL been IP related. Unless I'm missing any.

Think about Pirates of the Caribbean. It was an original ride and it even sparked a movie series. There's a lot of good that non-IP can do. And if you haven't seen the movie, you might be missing out on a ride.

But that being said, there a lot of benefits to IPs. You have the exposition out of the way, and the guests know the characters already, so thee's more you can do in a ride. With non-IPs its hard to have actual stories, as the ride is so short, and ride experiences aren't really great at telling narrative. This is an area where Universal messes up: they always try to tell a full story, and it comes off as clunky and cheesy. I like the Disney approach of no story but immersive details, visuals, sounds, and experiences.

 

[It Is What It Is]

What a baseless piece of rhetoric. You just threw that in to pad your argument thinking nobody would call you on it, no?

It often, like so many other attractions in WDW, has well over 10 minutes.

Read the thread, I have been called out on this before.

But lets check, here at 8pm on Wednesday, September 25, not the biggest crowds of course, but currently 35 minute wait for Test Track and Frozen, 10 minutes for Soarin, 0 minutes for LwtL.

 

[It Is What It Is]

I must confess - I saw LotL at a 20 minute wait the other day on the app. I checked a few minutes later and it was lower, but still, a first for me: over ten minutes.

 

[trainplane3]

I must confess - I saw LotL at a 20 minute wait the other day on the app. I checked a few minutes later and it was lower, but still, a first for me: over ten minutes.

On my trip last week LwtL was typically 25 minutes and Soarin' was 40-50. It's even better when you see LwtL having a longer wait then Soarin' which happened a few times.

 

[Trackmaster]

LwtL doesn't really have that much queue space. If it ever got to 30 minutes, I'd imagine that the line would be spilling over into the dining area.