Walt, Bob, IP

It Is What It Is

Active Member
Original Poster
So... he's a "walking suit". That's what really confuses me about the support for Mayer over Chapek. Mayer has always been about business strategy. If anyone really believes Mayer is going to be better for fans than Chapek, then I think they're missing some critical details.

bUU, I get that. I'm watching and trying to learn about these names we hear for potential candidates for Iger's chair. What I read, I see Mayer's name most often. We've got a couple years, hopefully we will see some more names rise to the top.

For me, my first love is the Parks, but I'm routing for the company overall to be successful first and foremost. As I learn about Disney's financial past, the company has been exposed to many times for takeover. In the last twenty years, Comcast made a run at Disney around 2000 and recently Verizon was hoping to take a shot at it. Thankfully, neither succeeded, and Verizon probably didn't really have a chance.

I can think of nothing worse than my favorite company not being owned by Disney. Therefore, I must also route for the business believing that if the Parks are successful, they will keep investing in them. As the names for possible CEO come up, I go to YouTube to see if I can see them interviewed. From the little I know now, I'd have to go with Mayer. If you have other names please do tell, I would love to check them out!
 

Hakunamatata

Le Meh
Premium Member
I may be wrong. I'm curious what you feel the average wait time is? As I look at my app, now on a summers day, in the middle of the afternoon, the day before July 4th, I see a five minute wait. The last time I rode Living with the Land, my app said a ten minute wait and I didn't wait a minute, I walked right onto the boat. I experienced the under promise, over deliver strategy, “yay me, I just saved ten minutes”.

I know very little about Chapek, he comes off as a walking suit with very little personality, I hope I'm wrong on that. If he does have some personality in there, the Company needs to do a better job showcasing it. Kevin Mayer seems a little stiff, but I do see some personality in the interviews he has given, so at this point in time, if the top spot were to charge today KM would get my vote.

Iger, I like his personality. He comes off as someone who has made the most of the breaks that came his way. He may not be balanced in the Parks, but from a business standpoint, he is doing very well. Do people here think Pandora and Galaxy's Edge have been a waste of money?

Change is going to happen, I'm not advocating for or against IP being added to Living with the Land. My point is that if you did add IP to it, you would get more young people to ride it. Adding Incredibles to California Screamin, I don't think that it is a better ride, I like the old better. But my neighbors kid sure thought it was awesome. That means that change wasn't necessarily made for me. And that's okay.

(Having some fun here - As the great Walter White once said, “Say my name!”)

It Is What It Is

:)
On our recent three week trip it was easy thirty minute standby during most non Illuminations ramp up times. So much so we only rode it with FPs.

It serves a big purpose in that pavilion. If they ever re routed the attraction entrance for Soarin to outside that pavilion then it would struggle.
 

Sonconato

Well-Known Member
I may be wrong. I'm curious what you feel the average wait time is? As I look at my app, now on a summers day, in the middle of the afternoon, the day before July 4th, I see a five minute wait. The last time I rode Living with the Land, my app said a ten minute wait and I didn't wait a minute, I walked right onto the boat. I experienced the under promise, over deliver strategy, “yay me, I just saved ten minutes”.

I know very little about Chapek, he comes off as a walking suit with very little personality, I hope I'm wrong on that. If he does have some personality in there, the Company needs to do a better job showcasing it. Kevin Mayer seems a little stiff, but I do see some personality in the interviews he has given, so at this point in time, if the top spot were to charge today KM would get my vote.

Iger, I like his personality. He comes off as someone who has made the most of the breaks that came his way. He may not be balanced in the Parks, but from a business standpoint, he is doing very well. Do people here think Pandora and Galaxy's Edge have been a waste of money?

Change is going to happen, I'm not advocating for or against IP being added to Living with the Land. My point is that if you did add IP to it, you would get more young people to ride it. Adding Incredibles to California Screamin, I don't think that it is a better ride, I like the old better. But my neighbors kid sure thought it was awesome. That means that change wasn't necessarily made for me. And that's okay.

(Having some fun here - As the great Walter White once said, “Say my name!”)

It Is What It Is

:)
As an Annual Passholder, I used to go to Living with the Land very frequently; in fact every time I went to Epcot. More often than not, there is a line for the ride. Of course, nowadays I don't go to Epcot nearly as much as I used to because everything that made it great is disappearing. Even if you were correct, IP is not always the answer. Look at the former Flights of Wonder in AK: now that IP has been implemented it is on its third change within a couple of years. Besides the point, it seems that since the Iger years began the general atmosphere of the parks has changed dramatically. His method to be successful from a business standpoint, as you put it, is to cut the staff so that each individual is overworked and then charge the guests ridiculously high. And the guests are seeing it - just look at TripAdvisor. Most of them can see that they are being gouged; it's pretty plain to see. I am changing my ways too. It was pretty standard that my family and I would go to Epcot for the Fourth of July, but today we're going to SeaWorld. We just don't want to deal with the excessive crowding. This is just my two cents, anyway.
 

bUU

Well-Known Member
some change should be resisted.
I save my "resistance" for things that are really important, like justice, compassion for those less fortunate, health and well-being, etc. It is also critically important to remember that on the other side of any Disney transaction are millions of retirees who rely on dividends to pay their bills. In the calculus of prioritization for "resistance" between a fans' personal preferences and retirees paying their bills, the latter is going to prevail.

Yes, a lot of the current IP moves are paying off short term, but if they start sacrificing to many of the Disney details, the long term damage will start to overwhelm those short term gains.
Which is the same baseless scare tactic that those unhappy with change have tried to peddle for as long as there has been someplace online to have such discussions.
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
I save my "resistance" for things that are really important, like justice, compassion for those less fortunate, health and well-being, etc. It is also critically important to remember that on the other side of any Disney transaction are millions of retirees who rely on dividends to pay their bills. In the calculus of prioritization for "resistance" between a fans' personal preferences and retirees paying their bills, the latter is going to prevail.

I believe they can do both if they really want to.
 

bUU

Well-Known Member
I believe they can do both if they really want to.
They can't. The nature of the fans' personal preferences that we're talking about is such that maximizing dividends necessarily means compromising on those preferences to some extent. Satisfying guests is, and will always be, a tool for fostering the business. The sooner we guests accept that, the sooner we can really appreciate what is actually offered and relieve ourselves of the baggage of disappointment that we bring onto ourselves through baseless expectations.
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
They can't. The nature of the fans' personal preferences that we're talking about is such that maximizing dividends necessarily means compromising on those preferences to some extent. Satisfying guests is, and will always be, a tool for fostering the business. The sooner we guests accept that, the sooner we can really appreciate what is actually offered and relieve ourselves of the baggage of disappointment that we bring onto ourselves through baseless expectations.

I am not talking about catering to every fan's whim, I am talking about sticking to the principles that made Disney great. I still appreciate the parks, that why I go, but I will never just accept the things that I think they are doing badly.
 

peng

Well-Known Member
I think one of the thing the Bobs are ignoring is that a lot of the non-IP attractions have become IPs by themselves. The Haunted Mansion, Country Bears, Thunder and Space mountain, what used to be Journey into Imagination, hell even Small World have evolved into IPs. But the Bobs don't care as they don't print money like Marvel, Star Wars and Frozen. That and niche theme park stuff has become a lot more popular as of late (look at Defunctland for example), and that closing the classics may become harder if we start giving the Bobs more . The bad part is that goodwill for Disney among the public is the highest since the 90s, especially among the GP. That and a few of the people that promote some theme park stuff (DSNY for example), seem to praise every single change the Bobs make. Yes, Walt said Disneyland is not a museum, but that doesn't mean you don't have to ignore history.
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
I am not talking about catering to every fan's whim, I am talking about sticking to the principles that made Disney great. I still appreciate the parks, that why I go, but I will never just accept the things that I think they are doing badly.
Define "great". If a newcomer thinks the parks are great today, is the natural fallback "oh back when Walt was alive they were yada,byada, yada".
My coworker just returned from a trip with her family , loved it, ready to buy dvc, thinks the parks are awesome. So is it great for her or do you see " oh they're awful, in 1980 they used to do______??
General question?
 

bUU

Well-Known Member
I am not talking about catering to every fan's whim, I am talking about sticking to the principles that made Disney great.
Nonsense. You're not clamoring for a return of smoking in the park pathways. You're not clamoring for a removal of all VR simulator attractions. You're not clamoring for leveling all the moderate and budget resorts (since Walt's vision only called for hotels that rich people could afford).

You're cherry-picking the things that you personally want to go your way.
 

Naplesgolfer

Well-Known Member
They can't. The nature of the fans' personal preferences that we're talking about is such that maximizing dividends necessarily means compromising on those preferences to some extent. Satisfying guests is, and will always be, a tool for fostering the business. The sooner we guests accept that, the sooner we can really appreciate what is actually offered and relieve ourselves of the baggage of disappointment that we bring onto ourselves through baseless expectations.

Disney is being very counter productive with lowering staff levels , reduced maintenance and throttling back ride capacity. These are indefensible short term (bonus making) savings that cost them( in more ways than one) in the long term. They can accomplish good show and customer experience and grow the business at the same time. They are increasing prices twice a year!
 

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
I am not talking about catering to every fan's whim, I am talking about sticking to the principles that made Disney great. I still appreciate the parks, that why I go, but I will never just accept the things that I think they are doing badly.
I agree. I don't believe the vast majority hate change for the sake of hating change. It's the change that isn't better than what came before that people have a problem with. I know that quality is subjective and some like frozen better than Maelstrom. But the people that hate that change (myself included) don't hate it because of frozen. They hate it because it doesn't fit in Norway. It should have got a A+ new ride in the MK. You can change Maelstrom, it just needs to fit the area and improve on what was there before. If you can't do that, then don't change it until you can.
My coworker just returned from a trip with her family , loved it, ready to buy dvc, thinks the parks are awesome. So is it great for her or do you see " oh they're awful, in 1980 they used to do______??
General question?
I love talking Disney with friends, family, coworkers... I find the opposite with most of the first timers. I get a lot of, yea it was nice, not sure if I'll go back anytime soon. It's a lot of the same issues, too much planning, so expensive and oh my god it was so crowded... But I think that is Disneys model right now. They don't seem to cater to the multi trip guest. The once in a lifetime guests spend a lot more than I on an average trip. They want that one time spend and are banking on those new people.
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
I agree. I don't believe the vast majority hate change for the sake of hating change. It's the change that isn't better than what came before that people have a problem with. I know that quality is subjective and some like frozen better than Maelstrom. But the people that hate that change (myself included) don't hate it because of frozen. They hate it because it doesn't fit in Norway. It should have got a A+ new ride in the MK. You can change Maelstrom, it just needs to fit the area and improve on what was there before. If you can't do that, then don't change it until you can.

I love talking Disney with friends, family, coworkers... I find the opposite with most of the first timers. I get a lot of, yea it was nice, not sure if I'll go back anytime soon. It's a lot of the same issues, too much planning, so expensive and oh my god it was so crowded... But I think that is Disneys model right now. They don't seem to cater to the multi trip guest. The once in a lifetime guests spend a lot more than I on an average trip. They want that one time spend and are banking on those new people.
I do get the "it's expensive too". Lol I also tell people that immediately 😅 just so that don't get have ❤️ attacks when they get a look at the prices.
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
I agree. I don't believe the vast majority hate change for the sake of hating change. It's the change that isn't better than what came before that people have a problem with. I know that quality is subjective and some like frozen better than Maelstrom. But the people that hate that change (myself included) don't hate it because of frozen. They hate it because it doesn't fit in Norway. It should have got a A+ new ride in the MK. You can change Maelstrom, it just needs to fit the area and improve on what was there before. If you can't do that, then don't change it until you can.

I love talking Disney with friends, family, coworkers... I find the opposite with most of the first timers. I get a lot of, yea it was nice, not sure if I'll go back anytime soon. It's a lot of the same issues, too much planning, so expensive and oh my god it was so crowded... But I think that is Disneys model right now. They don't seem to cater to the multi trip guest. The once in a lifetime guests spend a lot more than I on an average trip. They want that one time spend and are banking on those new people.

Yeah, not only was Frozen put some place that compromised theme, they shoe horned it into an existing ride which limited the creative possibilities for the ride. A totally new ride in Fantasyland probably would have been an all around better product for not to much more cost.
 

bUU

Well-Known Member
I do get the "it's expensive too". Lol I also tell people that immediately 😅 just so that don't get have ❤ attacks when they get a look at the prices.
Yup! and I follow that up telling them about how crowded the place is most of the time, followed by making the point that high prices and crowds that get bigger and bigger are an objective measure of how great the place is and how much greater the place is becoming.
 

FettFan

Well-Known Member
It is fascinating to watch the IP debates on the forums. So much angst. And part of me gets it: your beloved parks are changing. Change is very hard for some people, yet change is inevitable.

I'm sure I've crossed over into the latter half of life. A few years ago, I saw a commercial that didn't make sense to me, a younger friend said, “I learned that if you see an ad that you don't get, it wasn't made for you.” And the lightbulb went off: a lot of the time, I'm not the targeted demographic.

I think of this when I read the forums: the parks are changing for the younger generations. So many can't handle this but, it's going to happen. And a lot of it has to do with IP. When I think of IP, I'm sure these will be fighting words for many, I see similarities in Walt and Bob. Let me explain:

A young Walt, an entrepreneur, wanted to be in control of his destiny. Animation in film was the future and he was interested in getting involved. He dabbled in the business for a few years until Oswald the Lucky Rabbit did well in 1927. His first somewhat successful IP. An argument could be made that was a take on Felix the Cat which had been doing well since it's debut in 1919. Universal leveraged Oswald away from Walt in 1928. Mortimer Mouse took his place, I mean Mickey (thank you Lillian)! Walt was not the most talented artist in the room, Ub Iwerks was. But Walt, an entrepreneur, thought outside the box, “let's add sound!” Steamboat Willy/Mickey Mouse took off.

“Let's make a movie!”, decided Walt. Did he use original IP? No, he adapted a story that some German guy wrote nearly a century before and we now have Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. Pinocchio, Bambi, Cinderella, original IP? No, no, no. All works by someone else. Winnie the Pooh and Mary Poppins? Purchased IP.

Moving on to Disneyland, Walt the entrepreneur, saw how bad amusement parks were run before Disneyland. “I'm going to make a family friendly one”, the man thought. And he did. Walt saw something and knew how to plus it!

Let's look at the lands: Fantasyland, we know they were based on the film's which were not his IP. Frontierland? What was the hot show of 1954? Davy Crockett, king of the wild frontier, which is based on the man named Davy Crockett. Original IP? I don't think so. Main Street? Kind of based on the small towns of Walt’s life. Tomorrowland and Adventureland? Little boys were fascinated with space and safaris. There wasn't an internet to watch videos of your favorite subject back then. Bring that to the kids. It was smart business.

Rides: Haunted Mansion? Haunted homes walkthroughs became a thing during the Great Depression, Walt plussed the concept. He plussed it very well. Pirates of the Caribbean? Yes. Obviously, pirates had been around, but putting animatronics, pirates and a boat ride together was brilliant! Small World? Sure. But as you can see, the majority of what Walt did was based on existing ideas or works.

Walt is awesome and I'm glad his dreams came true because my life is better because of his dreams. The man, in my opinion, should be considered one of the best entrepreneurs of all time. Walt, as an entrepreneur, set the mold for Steve Jobs, Elon Musk and others.

But, what about Bob? No, the man is not an entrepreneur. But looking at the numbers, I would say that Bob is a better businessman than Walt. The Walt Disney Company was close to collapse a couple times under Walt. After Walt’s passing. the company got itself into financial trouble and was close to hostile takeover. It is unlikely now that there will be a takeover of the company. which would be all for the legacy of my favorite entrepreneur. Financially, the Walt Disney Company is in the best shape its ever been.

What about Bob and the Parks? Bob has invested in the Parks. I might not be the biggest Guardians of the Galaxy fan, doesn't mean the new roller coaster in Epcot isn't going to be well done. I didn't like the idea of Tower of Terror in California Adventure transitioning to GotG, but after riding it, I thought it was a better ride than ToT. Doesn't mean that I still don't like the concept of ToT better, but it is what it is. Three new ships coming online, very exciting! Galaxy's Edge looks incredible, I'm looking forward to that visit! Toy Story Land, better than I expected. Watching Epcot evolve, I'm fascinated by it. Brazil in World Showcase? Hopefully! What the minds of these Imagineers can up with, wow! Have you ridden Flight of Passage?

Bob is buying relevant IP and he is adding it to the parks at lightning speed. More and more IP is going to get added as the years go by. If that's what is going to draw the younger generations, that is what is going to happen. I'm sure Bob would like a redo with Harry Potter and JK Rowling, the young people in my life love Harry Potter. Simpson's in the parks one day? I'm not crazy about it, but it is what it is. There is a balance to appeasing the older and younger. And sometimes Disney adjusts, not right, not wrong, as with the case with putting merchandise in the Main Street Cinema in Disneyland. The older generations didn't like it and Disney pulled the merchandise out. But one day, unless it's given a Historical Landmark status, it will change, as it's usually empty in there and you don't see many young people in it. Why go stand in a room watching videos when they can do that anytime on their phones? But would Walt have bought and used the IP that Bob has? Who knows, but we know Walt was a buyer of IP and he used it in the parks. Bob is a buyer of IP and he uses it in the parks.

Change is happening under Bob. Dory and Nemo added to Small World. It's possible the younger generations like seeing these in Small World. Could Zootopia possibly be coming to Animal Kingdom? Could be, and I'll check it out if it does. Do you ever see more than a ten minute wait for Living with the Land? What if you added some IP to it? I bet you could get it up to a twenty minute wait easily. Paradise Pier becoming Pixar Pier? What is Bob thinking? We don't know, but if we don't like it or don't understand it, it's probably not meant for us.

It's not about IP in the parks. Most of the people complaining never once would decry 20,000 Leagues at the Magic Kingdom or the Muppets taking over a portion of Hollywood Studios.
Hell, you don't really hear anything negative about the Tron PowerCycle Coaster currently being built in Tomorrowland.


All the complaints are about IP in the parks in places where said IP just does not fit.
Guardians of the Galaxy Roller Coaster is a GREAT idea....IF it was at Hollywood Studios.
Frozen Ever After is a GREAT idea....IF It was at the Magic Kingdom, given that the ride is just a rehash of the movie, and has absolutely no connection to the real life Norway. You wouldn't put Peter Pan's Flight at the UK Pavilion.
 

Cheekylittlerobot

Active Member
It's not about IP in the parks. Most of the people complaining never once would decry 20,000 Leagues at the Magic Kingdom or the Muppets taking over a portion of Hollywood Studios.
Hell, you don't really hear anything negative about the Tron PowerCycle Coaster currently being built in Tomorrowland.


All the complaints are about IP in the parks in places where said IP just does not fit.
Guardians of the Galaxy Roller Coaster is a GREAT idea....IF it was at Hollywood Studios.
Frozen Ever After is a GREAT idea....IF It was at the Magic Kingdom, given that the ride is just a rehash of the movie, and has absolutely no connection to the real life Norway. You wouldn't put Peter Pan's Flight at the UK Pavilion.

Finally someone with common sense!
 

bUU

Well-Known Member
All the complaints are about IP in the parks in places where said IP just does not fit.
The complaints reflect nothing but unfounded expectations that the World will array itself to one's personal preferences instead of to what best capitalizes on the interests of the entire population of prospective guests.
 
IMO Disney parks traditionally resisted change more than any institution I can think of. Many of the attractions I remember from the late 70's on still exist, or existed until very recently.

The recent changes seem sudden in the history of Disney. But, it's a publicly traded company, and people these days have a short attention span. Consumers would expect a radio to last 20+ years and be serviceable, but these days can't hold on to a $800 smartphone for more than 18 months.

Also, we have to consider foreign influence, many international tourists (China mostly) are only recently on board with Disney IP of no more than the last 20 years.

My 11 year old loves the old school rides as much as I do. In fact, if Disney only considered domestic consumers, I'd argue that they would continue to be profitable for decades to come.

But, investors/shareholders can't pass up an opportunity to take money from emerging markets (Chinese) and it doesn't hurt that youth don't mind the change. So, in comes new IP. Personally, I don't like it. But I'm grateful I grew up during the best years of Disney. Our kids won't notice!
 

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