Walls down - Fantasyland soft opening status

[CaptainShortty]

Wondering if anyone knows yet what the latest in the day CM preview times are scheduled for new Fantasyland? (i guess next week we'd know)
Was curious if the preview for cast members would be most of the day and later in the afternoon they would open up new Fantasyland to the general public until 6:00???
Can there be that many CMs and friends to warrant having it open and staffed for a week or two? Maybe...maybe not.
Just asking since I'll be there 23rd - 25th.

There are over 60,000 WDW CMs and each CM is allowed to bring up to the number of people allowed on their Main entrance pass which is generally 3 however it could be more depending on the CM. So, it could be as many as over 180,000 CMs. For a piece of the park that small they need to have that many days to accommodate all those people. Will all the days be full, probably not, but they need to have the dates open just in case.

 

[marni1971]

You can't necessarily blame the time difference on Fastpass, yesterday was a weekday, this is a weekend day and this is the first day that people have actually known ahead of time that this would be open.

And yesterday the line was fully used plus more and didn't stop moving. It was busier yesterday. This afternoon once FP was active it was a mess.

 

[dreamscometrue]

FastPass. Creates. Lines.

Doesn't. Make. Sense.

Hope you're not a lawyer.

 

[csm]

Doesn't. Make. Sense.

Hope you're not a lawyer.

Enjoy the massive standby lines at Mermaid on your next trip from December 26 - January 5! I had a great time riding it twice yesterday before FastPass was activated. Guess we'll talk after January 6 and you can tell me if it still doesn't make sense.

 

[janoimagine]

Doesn't. Make. Sense.

Hope you're not a lawyer.

Yes. It. Does.

Use. Your. Head.

 

[danlb_2000]

Yes. It. Does.

Use. Your. Head.

If it makes so much sense, why hasn't anyone been able to provide a full explanation of why Fastpass makes the standby line longer? Yes, the sand-by line will move slower because fastpass is being merged into it, but why isn't that offset by the fact that there should be fewer people in the standby line?

 

[maxairmike]

And yesterday the line was fully used plus more and didn't stop moving. It was busier yesterday. This afternoon once FP was active it was a mess.

Yep, this. I waited in a line that was spilling out into the pathway, and I was probably a good 20+ feet from the entrance in that line. I was on the ride in less than 20 minutes.

Of course, all the money they spent on the interactive features are useless unless they implement FastPass and increase the Stand By time because of it.

 

[disney fan 13]

OTPN has a massive 10 part update...

http://orlandoparksnews.blogspot.com/2012/10/the-new-fantasyland-part-1-maurices.html

 

[maxairmike]

If it makes so much sense, why hasn't anyone been able to provide a full explanation of why Fastpass makes the standby line longer? Yes, the sand-by line will move slower because fastpass is being merged into it, but why isn't that offset by the fact that there should be fewer people in the standby line?

On an Omnimover, when you add FastPass they are automatically reducing the line flow from 100% to 20% because the split they are supposed to use is 80/20 in favor of FastPass. Now the FastPass won't always require that ratio, and then sometimes it requires a 100/0 split, which really wreaks havoc on the stand by line. Add in operational inefficiencies that arise from having to switch the line flows, arguments at the merge point, etc. and you reduce the actual hourly capacity in addition to reducing the stand by line to a crawl with their FP ratio. It all adds up to an increase in stand by waits. I need to get back to football, though, so if you want numbers, you'll have to get those from someone else. That's the short of it, though.

 

[doctornick]

On an Omnimover, when you add FastPass they are automatically reducing the line flow from 100% to 20% because the split they are supposed to use is 80/20 in favor of FastPass. Now the FastPass won't always require that ratio, and then sometimes it requires a 100/0 split, which really wreaks havoc on the stand by line. Add in operational inefficiencies that arise from having to switch the line flows, arguments at the merge point, etc. and you reduce the actual hourly capacity in addition to reducing the stand by line to a crawl with their FP ratio. It all adds up to an increase in stand by waits. I need to get back to football, though, so if you want numbers, you'll have to get those from someone else. That's the short of it, though.

Are you suggesting that FP causes there to be empty ride vehicles running when there is a line of people waiting? While I don't want to suggest that's impossible, I have certainly never seen it and don't think it would ever happen. They always have plenty of people in the loading area far enough in advance to ensure all the vehicles are filled.

And if ride vehicles are always filled, then ride capacity is not reduced.

Operational inefficiencies would cause gaps in the queue at times, but people will "catch up" before getting to the loading area and not impact overall hourly capacity.

I agree with the obvious point that FP use increases standby times. I don't agree with the idea that it de facto makes overall wait times for a visitor worse, because that person while suffering through longer standby times would benefit from shorter wait times while using FP. Basically put, someone who is familiar with using FP and efficiently uses the system is likely to reduce their overall total wait times in a park. Someone who is less familar with the system and uses it inefficiently or doesn't use it at all (we've all heard the stories of people who thought they had to pay for FP or just didn't get the system) will see their total overall wait time higher. But since ride capacity is unaffected, the idea that more total time is spent waiting for ride doesn't make any sense.

Standby people wait longer, FP users wait shorter.

 

[Neverland]

Take it from someone who was merging guests both yesterday (without FPs) and today (with FPs) - fastpass has wreaked horrible havoc on this attraction. The standby is reduced to a crawl when there is a sustained FP line, even a short one. And I'm someone who is good at merging. If any of you were there waiting in the standby line today, I formally apologize. Add in the fact that the ride was down for a fourth of the day, meaning anyone with a fastpass during those downtimes would then flood the FP line when the ride was up again, and you've got one slow standby line.

 

[disney fan 13]

Take it from someone who was merging guests both yesterday (without FPs) and today (with FPs) - fastpass has wreaked horrible havoc on this attraction. The standby is reduced to a crawl when there is a sustained FP line, even a short one. And I'm someone who is good at merging. If any of you were there waiting in the standby line today, I formally apologize. Add in the fact that the ride was down for a fourth of the day, meaning anyone with a fastpass during those downtimes would then flood the FP line when the ride was up again, and you've got one slow standby line.

Glad we have someone who actually works at the attraction to explain it, thank you.

 

[muteki]

On an Omnimover, when you add FastPass they are automatically reducing the line flow from 100% to 20% because the split they are supposed to use is 80/20 in favor of FastPass. Now the FastPass won't always require that ratio, and then sometimes it requires a 100/0 split, which really wreaks havoc on the stand by line. Add in operational inefficiencies that arise from having to switch the line flows, arguments at the merge point, etc. and you reduce the actual hourly capacity in addition to reducing the stand by line to a crawl with their FP ratio. It all adds up to an increase in stand by waits. I need to get back to football, though, so if you want numbers, you'll have to get those from someone else. That's the short of it, though.

Is it really 80% fastpass at the merge? That much? I can understand 20%, but if you are having to dedicate 80% of your throughput to fastpass then you are giving out too many.

I don't think there can really be an argument about fastpass' impact on standby waits. They will increase no matter what.

The question is whether you find a shorter wait for some when planned ahead more favorable, or a moderate wait for everyone all the time. Not saying this is going to be the case in every scenario, but in rides like this it is.

 

[SyracuseOrange]

Take it from someone who was merging guests both yesterday (without FPs) and today (with FPs) - fastpass has wreaked horrible havoc on this attraction. The standby is reduced to a crawl when there is a sustained FP line, even a short one. And I'm someone who is good at merging. If any of you were there waiting in the standby line today, I formally apologize. Add in the fact that the ride was down for a fourth of the day, meaning anyone with a fastpass during those downtimes would then flood the FP line when the ride was up again, and you've got one slow standby line.

Why was the ride down 1/4 of the day yesterday?

 

[RSoxNo1]

Doesn't. Make. Sense.

Hope you're not a lawyer.

The fastpass line makes the standby line longer. If you have 500 people in a standby line and Fastpass isn't used, you only have to wait for those 500 people to get on before you. With Fastpass, that same line of 500 standby guests takes longer because there is a separate line that has priority. This separate line will also include people that aren't even in line when you start. He doesn't have to be a lawyer, he had to take an introductory business operations class and/or pass a high school math class.

 

[RSoxNo1]

If it makes so much sense, why hasn't anyone been able to provide a full explanation of why Fastpass makes the standby line longer? Yes, the sand-by line will move slower because fastpass is being merged into it, but why isn't that offset by the fact that there should be fewer people in the standby line?

There is a certain time that people are willing to wait for an attraction. Fastpass makes that number shorter. Crowds in the park make that mindset change as well. Right now, demand for Little Mermaid exceeds capacity, as such your theory of fewer people in the standby line doesn't really play out. You have people that acquired Fastpass eating up some of that demand to ride, and then you have people in Standby that aren't dissuaded by a longer line. Yes, the people that are riding Fastpass for a brand new attraction probably would have also ridden standby, but once an attraction is established that's not always the case.

Many people would never wait 90 minutes for Toy Story Mania, but 15 minutes with Fastpass isn't a problem. The biggest thing is that the demand for riding an attraction isn't constant, it varies based on length of the wait. Some people will not go on an attraction if they have to wait more than 20 minutes, for others that number might be 40, 60 or 120 minutes. If you visit the park on New Year's Eve perfectly rational people like myself will wait 45 minutes to ride Journey Into Your Imagination with Figment, however any other day of the year I wouldn't wait 5 minutes for it.

 

[MissM]

Looks like seeing pictures coming in via Orlando Attractions Magazine the land is staying open for the evening as opposed to the rumored 6pm close. Can anyone confirm?

I don't know how late it was open today but I can tell you that we didn't even get in line for Enchanted Tales with Belle until after 6pm. It was close to 7pm when we were heading out of New Fantasyland and they were still letting people in.

Why was the ride down 1/4 of the day yesterday?

I don't know, but I do know we got in line and it was moving along really quick. Like, almost non-stop movement through the first half of the queue. Then we just....stopped. We didn't move for a good 10-15 minutes. Some guys in Maintenance uniforms came through the line and about 5-10 minutes after that, the line started moving again pretty fast and we got on shortly thereafter. So something definitely happened late Saturday afternoon that took it down for awhile.

 

[RSoxNo1]

On an Omnimover, when you add FastPass they are automatically reducing the line flow from 100% to 20% because the split they are supposed to use is 80/20 in favor of FastPass. Now the FastPass won't always require that ratio, and then sometimes it requires a 100/0 split, which really wreaks havoc on the stand by line. Add in operational inefficiencies that arise from having to switch the line flows, arguments at the merge point, etc. and you reduce the actual hourly capacity in addition to reducing the stand by line to a crawl with their FP ratio. It all adds up to an increase in stand by waits. I need to get back to football, though, so if you want numbers, you'll have to get those from someone else. That's the short of it, though.

There will be waves when it's 80/20, but that's not the norm. As far as I know it's probably in the 50/50 to 60/40 range most of the time.

Are you suggesting that FP causes there to be empty ride vehicles running when there is a line of people waiting? While I don't want to suggest that's impossible, I have certainly never seen it and don't think it would ever happen. They always have plenty of people in the loading area far enough in advance to ensure all the vehicles are filled.

And if ride vehicles are always filled, then ride capacity is not reduced.

Operational inefficiencies would cause gaps in the queue at times, but people will "catch up" before getting to the loading area and not impact overall hourly capacity.

I agree with the obvious point that FP use increases standby times. I don't agree with the idea that it de facto makes overall wait times for a visitor worse, because that person while suffering through longer standby times would benefit from shorter wait times while using FP. Basically put, someone who is familiar with using FP and efficiently uses the system is likely to reduce their overall total wait times in a park. Someone who is less familar with the system and uses it inefficiently or doesn't use it at all (we've all heard the stories of people who thought they had to pay for FP or just didn't get the system) will see their total overall wait time higher. But since ride capacity is unaffected, the idea that more total time is spent waiting for ride doesn't make any sense.

Standby people wait longer, FP users wait shorter.

Fastpass makes overall wait times worse unless every person in the park is using it at 100% efficiency. It's a system that favors those that use it most efficiently. Fastpass causes operational issues at high capacity attractions where it should only be used seasonally. At these attractions it's conceivable that the cast member working merge can be overwhelmed by waves of FP guests, or simply guests not following directions.

At Haunted Mansion, this is creating problems in the stretching rooms and that's becoming the bottleneck of the attraction, not load/unload.

Take it from someone who was merging guests both yesterday (without FPs) and today (with FPs) - fastpass has wreaked horrible havoc on this attraction. The standby is reduced to a crawl when there is a sustained FP line, even a short one. And I'm someone who is good at merging. If any of you were there waiting in the standby line today, I formally apologize. Add in the fact that the ride was down for a fourth of the day, meaning anyone with a fastpass during those downtimes would then flood the FP line when the ride was up again, and you've got one slow standby line.

What's the official policy on late returns when the attraction is down? Are you re-issued a new Fastpass or are late returns simply allowed for a certain time period?

Also, I have to ask - Magic Kingdom Fastpass paper or new "Little Mermaid" fastpass paper?

 

[wannab@dis]

Fact. Fastpass increases the wait in a standby line.
Fact. The actual number of riders does NOT change whether fastpass is used or not.
Fact. If those that used fastpass had used standby, you would have the same wait since the capacity of the attraction doesn't change when fastpass is on or off.

None of those items can be argued. They are simple facts. I know some hate fastpasses and that's fine. But let's discuss the facts. If 500 people have a fastpass and 500 get into the standby line, it will take exactly the same amount of time for those 1000 people to get through the attraction as it would have if all 1000 had stood in standby.

The only difference is the order that you get on the attraction.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Fact. Fastpass increases the wait in a standby line.
Fact. The actual number of riders does NOT change whether fastpass is used or not.
Fact. If those that used fastpass had used standby, you would have the same wait since the capacity of the attraction doesn't change when fastpass is on or off.

None of those items can be argued. They are simple facts. I know some hate fastpasses and that's fine. But let's discuss the facts. If 500 people have a fastpass and 500 get into the standby line, it will take exactly the same amount of time for those 1000 people to get through the attraction as it would have if all 1000 had stood in standby.

The only difference is the order that you get on the attraction.

The one caveat is that people can arrive in the Fastpass line after you arrive in the Standby line, and the Fastpass person will have priority if the Standby person hasn't made the merge point yet. What's true is that the aggregate wait time of all Fastpass and Standby people would be exactly the same if the same number of people were in a Standby line and Fastpass didn't exist. However, simply eliminating Fastpass for attractions doesn't allow us to predict standby lines as an exact science. As I mentioned previously, human nature will result in some people willing to wait in lines of a certain length that others will not wait in.

To summarize all this, Little Mermaid should have Fastpass... seasonally. The same can be true for just about every attraction, even if "seasonally" means 3 days a year. If the system is shifted to a 100% electronic system this could in theory be easier. However when they unnecessary complication of scheduling attractions in advance of your trip is factored in, it creates the false value that people are so upset about. Right now, Little Mermaid just opened and it's quite popular. Fast forward a year from now, and the attraction could exist without Fastpass and never see wait times over 20 minutes except on peak days. Disney felt that the Fastpass system was broken, it was to a certain extent, but what they aim to "fix" with NextGen wasn't the broken part.