Walkway between Shades of Green and Disney's Grand Floridian Resort to permanently close

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Never said they were. Disney has converted resorts to DVC. Reduced number of rooms. Disney was able to reduce supply in order to maintain high pricing

Ok…then why is it “inappropriate” for SOG to have convenient monorail access - as it was known to have when they built it in 1974 - unless it’s some kind of a “financial” privilege?

 

[Figgy1]

Although I didn't memtion golfers does it really change my point? The primary use of the bridge would be SoG guests seeking to use the POLY resort monorail station. Are posters suggesting golfers would be a SIGNIFICANT number of guests who would use such a bridge? 40%? 30%?

Would it even be 10%?

Just a little FYI guests at SOG are hardly a blip on each monorail run as some mornings it was just us. Also now(not sure what the current situation is with the walkway) those that can walk to the MK do so. What I can say is later in the day many guests of SOG stop by Poly to eat, drink and SHOP

 

[GimpYancIent]

Just a little FYI guests at SOG are hardly a blip on each monorail run as some mornings it was just us. Also now(not sure what the current situation is with the walkway) those that can walk to the MK do so. What I can say is later in the day many guests of SOG stop by Poly to eat, drink and SHOP

No matter how big or small each time a convenience, an ease of access, a means to freely move about is restricted or blocked it detracts from a good experience at WDW.

 

[Ayla]

Just a little FYI guests at SOG are hardly a blip on each monorail run as some mornings it was just us. Also now(not sure what the current situation is with the walkway) those that can walk to the MK do so. What I can say is later in the day many guests of SOG stop by Poly to eat, drink and SHOP

Many guests of all the disney resorts stop at the Poly to eat, drink and shop.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

Many guests of all the disney resorts stop at the Poly to eat, drink and shop.

I agree, I don't want to say it, but having been a guest at the Poly, their bars and shops are not hurting for more customers. In fact it can be downright hard to get a table or seat as it is, making this a loss of revenue issue really doesn't work.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

Disney cuts off walking access to Military Resort Hotel at Disneyworld | TexAgs

Disney cuts off walking access to Military Resort Hotel at Disneyworld discussion on the TexAgs Politics forum.

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It's interesting to get a perspective from non Disney heads. Good points made by some vets.

 

[Figgy1]

Disney cuts off walking access to Military Resort Hotel at Disneyworld | TexAgs

Disney cuts off walking access to Military Resort Hotel at Disneyworld discussion on the TexAgs Politics forum.

texags.com

It's interesting to get a perspective from non Disney heads. Good points made by some vets.

There aren't enough members here with enough time to post all the falsehoods in that thread that is more derailed than any here has been. You may have gotten better answers from bus drivers

 

[nickys]

I agree, I don't want to say it, but having been a guest at the Poly, their bars and shops are not hurting for more customers. In fact it can be downright hard to get a table or seat as it is, making this a loss of revenue issue really doesn't work.

So you want to ban the veterans from being able to do so, because there are “too many” others who do?

How nice. From someone whose country has always been proud to honour its veterans.

 

[Grumpy4196]

Anyway you look at it Disney "could" have engineered a solution to this "if" they really wanted to. A simple crosswalk with a traffic light would have been sufficient. No need for a bridge or tunnel. Completely shutting it down regardless of the reason just looks bad on Disney's part.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

So you want to ban the veterans from being able to do so, because there are “too many” others who do?

How nice. From someone whose country has always been proud to honour its veterans.

First, that's one he'll of an assumption. Who the heck am I banning? I was critical of the notion that loss of patronage at the bars and restaurants was an issue, its not. I am just understanding why a business is not in a hurry to spend multi millions to build a bridge when they are widening a road significantly. Quite honestly, I think vets deserve better pay and benefits and medical care than they get and most would agree that is way more important than some resort only a handful out of hundreds of thousands of vets actually out there use But yes just make an assumption on me about a walkway.

 

[nickys]

First, that's one he'll of an assumption. Who the heck am I banning? I was critical of the notion that loss of patronage at the bars and restaurants was an issue, its not. I am just understanding why a business is not in a hurry to spend multi millions to build a bridge when they are widening a road significantly. Quite honestly, I think vets deserve better pay and benefits and medical care than they get and most would agree that is way more important than some resort only a handful out of hubdreds of thousands of vets actually out there. But yes just make an assumption on me about a walkway.

Your post read to me that you felt it it was fine for the walkway to be closed because there were already lots of other guests crowding the Poly.

If that’s not what you meant then I mis-interpreted your words and I apologise.

 

[Brian]

The decisionmaking behind the crosswalk, and the conflicting interests of Disney and Shades of Green, were covered in the CFTOD's 'Report on Past Practices of the Reedy Creek Improvement District.'

The relevant portion is quoted below, and the full version is available at this link.

For example, when Disney’s interests conflicted with the interests of guests at the non-Disney Shades of Green resort (operated by the U.S. military for the benefit of service members), Disney achieved its preferred outcome, with the RCID’s cooperation. This conflict arose as part of the ongoing World Drive Phase III project. The World Drive Phase III project is relocating a portion of World Drive, one of the public roads that guests use to navigate within the District. The public roadway changes fall under RCID’s jurisdiction and are being funded by the RCID bonds.

The World Drive Phase III roadway project affects the entrance to the Shades of Green Resort. Shades of Green is located across the street from Disney’s Polynesian Village Resort. The Polynesian Village Resort is home to dining and shopping experiences, access to the Disney monorail transportation system, access to a Disney boat service that brings guests to the Magic Kingdom theme park, and access to walking trails that allow members of the public to walk to the Magic Kingdom theme park. Members of the public do not need a ticket to ride the monorail or boat service, nor do they need to be a Disney hotel guest. Disney affirmatively informs park guests not staying at Disney resorts that they can freely use the monorail, boat, and other forms of Disney transportation.13


Before the World Drive Phase III project, guests at Shades of Green sometimes walked across the street (or used scooters if they were disabled) to access transportation and public amenities at Disney’s Polynesian Village Resort. As part of the World Drive Phase III project, Disney leadership determined that Disney’s “preferred direction … is to eliminate ALL pedestrian activity … generated by the Shades of Green resort,” which “will be accomplished by mandating guest usage of the shuttle bus AND development of site modification … to eliminate 13 See Transportation – Frequently Asked Questions, DISNEY, , https://bit.ly/47SwGBU (last visited Nov. 29, 2023). Non-hotel guests “have complimentary access to our network of monorails, buses, and boats” and describing “recommended routes that may be convenient for Guests who are not staying at a Disney Resort hotel,” including monorail and boat connections.40 pedestrian activity altogether.” (emphasis added) Exhibit 21, Eliminate SOG Pedestrian Access, at 6.


At least initially, the RCID’s concern was for the safety of pedestrian traffic as the roadway was expanded from two to four lanes. The RCID’s position was that the location would need to be signalized for pedestrian traffic by adding a traffic signal where none existed at the time. RCID would only accept an unsignalized intersection at Shades of Green “if there is either extensive fencing or a grade-separated pedestrian crossing to accommodate any pedestrians” crossing at the location. The RCID also believed that, regardless of pedestrian traffic at the location, future signalization may still be required to accommodate bus traffic and other larger vehicle movements.


At this point, the RCID relied on Disney to provide a traffic study supporting the future direction of vehicle and pedestrian traffic at this location. Id.


As the project evolved, the RCID did not conduct a dedicated pedestrian study at the Shades of Green location but did obtain data from another traffic study indicating that a peak of 30 pedestrian platoons/groups per hour (consisting of 2-3 people each for a total of 55-75 individuals per hour) were crossing between Shades of Green and the Polynesian Village Resort. Exhibit 22, Email Chain re Pedestrian Access at SOG. In internal communications, the RCID considered three options for the project: “Signal with at grade crosswalk … - Disney doesn’t want, ” “RCID to build a pedestrian bridge … - Disney really doesn’t want”; and “All pedestrian access from Shades of Green is eliminated – Disney likes but I have been told Shades does not want.” Id. at2.


Ultimately, the RCID acceded to Disney’s wishes. In July 2022, Disney confirmed to the RCID “that the Ped[estrian] access situation across from S[hades] o[f] G[reen] is to be completely omitted.” Id.


In this circumstance, it is difficult to believe that Shades of Green’s and the veterans’ interest in pedestrian traffic to and from the resort was given equal consideration alongside Disney’s preference for ending that pedestrian traffic, particularly because the RCID employees involved in the decisions about this public roadway project were receiving Complimentary Ticket annual passes, substantial Disney discounts, and other perks reserved for Disney “cast members.”


Yet as a government entity, the RCID was obligated to serve Shades of Green and Disney on equal footing and with complete neutrality. This is one example of how Disney’s capture of the RCID appears to have affected the neutrality of the RCID’s governmental decision-making and, at the very least, created the appearance of impropriety and unfairness.

 

[Angel Ariel]

The decisionmaking behind the crosswalk, and the conflicting interests of Disney and Shades of Green, were covered in the CFTOD's 'Report on Past Practices of the Reedy Creek Improvement District.'

The relevant portion is quoted below, and the full version is available at this link.

Wish I could say I was surprised

 

[networkpro]

Wish I could say I was surprised

If you can remember, part of the initial examination of the roadway connections to other than Disney properties was found to be an artificial constraint only beneficial to Disney and detrimental to the regional traffic flow.

 

[flynnibus]

The decisionmaking behind the crosswalk, and the conflicting interests of Disney and Shades of Green, were covered in the CFTOD's 'Report on Past Practices of the Reedy Creek Improvement District.'

The relevant portion is quoted below, and the full version is available at this link.

It's a great example of the lack of objectivity in the report too.

What it highlights is RCID taking Disney's view into consideration in its choices. But it also highlights the distortion in the report.. with claims like "Yet as a government entity, the RCID was obligated to serve Shades of Green and Disney on equal footing and with complete neutrality" -- which is not true. This is not some neutral street corner between disassociated property owners. This is not about access to public resources. This is about traffic flow (including pedestrians) to DISNEY'S TRANSPORTATION HUB. Not RCID's transportation... not public transportation... not even public property. It stands to reason that Disney should be a signficant stakeholder in the design of traffic flow for it's own service.

Disney isn't out to snub the SOG - Disney is out to eliminate pedestrians walking along major roads... a pattern they have been on for many years after incidents like the kid getting killed by the bus, and others.

 

[Brian]

Disney isn't out to snub the SOG - Disney is out to eliminate pedestrians walking along major roads... a pattern they have been on for many years after incidents like the kid getting killed by the bus, and others.

A great way to eliminate that problem is to build a pedestrian bridge, or to have had their pals in RCID to do it for them.

 

[flynnibus]

A great way to eliminate that problem is to build a pedestrian bridge, or to have had their pals in RCID to do it for them.

Notice what's lacking from that report? Any detail about SOG being asked or offering to pay for that, or being denied. That's why you take citations from those sources, but you really need to be weary of their conclusions.

It also lacks the detail on an analysis of such a bridge vs demand. In short.. it's an incomplete picture, so you really gotta be careful of taking 3rd party conclusions as part of citation of fact.

 

[MagicRat]

A great way to eliminate that problem is to build a pedestrian bridge, or to have had their pals in RCID to do it for them.

I instantly thought of the stoplight between Contemporary and Magic Kingdom. I use that path often when we stay at BLT for convenience but am blown away by the people that somehow are able to Lyft/Uber to the resort and use the pathway. I am a walker so don't mind parking far away from buildings but watching these people use the system is almost as bad as the cast members who routinely take up the front parking spots at the resort. I have watched them on multiple trips come in and out of these spots at shift changes. Sorry, I got off topic but why is that particular interchange ok but not the new interchange between SOG and Polynesian?

 

[Brian]

I instantly thought of the stoplight between Contemporary and Magic Kingdom. I use that path often when we stay at BLT for convenience but am blown away by the people that somehow are able to Lyft/Uber to the resort and use the pathway. I am a walker so don't mind parking far away from buildings but watching these people use the system is almost as bad as the cast members who routinely take up the front parking spots at the resort. I have watched them on multiple trips come in and out of these spots at shift changes. Sorry, I got off topic but why is that particular interchange ok but not the new interchange between SOG and Polynesian?

Excellent question. I suspect it's so that Disney could market the Contemporary as "walking distance" to MK while stripping Shades of Green from a "walking distance" advertisement for the monorail service.

 

[twilight mitsuk]

Excellent question. I suspect it's so that Disney could market the Contemporary as "walking distance" to MK while stripping Shades of Green from a "walking distance" advertisement for the monorail service.

keeps day guests from parking there for mk