Volcano Hotel

[Bairstow]

Again, you need to read Marty's book - Dream It! Do It! The plans for the Studio park were started long before Universal's announcement. Did it cause them to maybe up the timeline and open it a bit sooner? Sure, why not. But the park itself was not an answer to a Universal park.

I don't know how you can say that EPCOT came together quickly, when they were working on it for 10 years prior to opening.

Eisner was privy to Universal's Florida plans, even specific attraction concepts, long before they were publicly announced.

 

[rushtest4echo]

Eisner was privy to Universal's Florida plans, even specific attraction concepts, long before they were publicly announced.

This.

Funny how plenty of those concepts showed up in one form or another around Disney's parks once Eisner came over to Disney. Such a coincidence.

Universal's announcement came a few years before ground was broken, but that ground was owned by the parent company for Universal well before any plans were solidified/announced. Concepts and plans for Universal Florida long predate any announcements. We're talking before EPCOT opened here. This wasn't exactly an industry secret. Eisner's employer at the time (Paramount) was involved with a joint venture with Universal, who proposed a co-branded theme park enterprise in Orlando. (hint hint, why do you think Disney co-branded with MGM- they had a big enough catalog to avoid it and did it anyway). Again, this is just common knowledge for people who followed those companies back then.

I've read Marty's books. I don't think he's ever said that Disney marches to the beat of it's own drum here in Orlando- especially with the other parks here in town. And if he has, that's sheer arrogance. As far as EPCOT though. Working on it blue sky wise and then suddenly doing the biggest/most expensive construction project Disney's ever done in a span so short are two different things. I'm not even saying there's a link, that's why I'm wondering if Martin can offer an opinion on the subject since it's painfully obvious that all other park decisions in Florida that Disney has done have been reactionary to Universal.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Eisner was privy to Universal's Florida plans, even specific attraction concepts, long before they were publicly announced.

I'm sure that's true, but according to Marty, they were working on many of the attraction concepts long before that. Some of those that they came up with were supposed to be for EPCOT, but Eisner wanted a new park. Again, I just don't think that Disney is concerned about what Universal Florida does with their theme parks. They have their own plans in mind that they are going to follow through on.

I will absolutely admit that this is my opinion, but I come to this conclusion after reading Marty's book.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

This.

Funny how plenty of those concepts showed up in one form or another around Disney's parks once Eisner came over to Disney. Such a coincidence.

Universal's announcement came a few years before ground was broken, but that ground was owned by the parent company for Universal well before any plans were solidified/announced. Concepts and plans for Universal Florida long predate any announcements. We're talking before EPCOT opened here. This wasn't exactly an industry secret. Eisner's employer at the time (Paramount) was involved with a joint venture with Universal, who proposed a co-branded theme park enterprise in Orlando. (hint hint, why do you think Disney co-branded with MGM- they had a big enough catalog to avoid it and did it anyway). Again, this is just common knowledge for people who followed those companies back then.

I've read Marty's books. I don't think he's ever said that Disney marches to the beat of it's own drum here in Orlando- especially with the other parks here in town. And if he has, that's sheer arrogance. As far as EPCOT though. Working on it blue sky wise and then suddenly doing the biggest/most expensive construction project Disney's ever done in a span so short are two different things. I'm not even saying there's a link, that's why I'm wondering if Martin can offer an opinion on the subject since it's painfully obvious that all other park decisions in Florida that Disney has done have been reactionary to Universal.

So you're saying that Universal is pulling the strings, and Disney is dancing to their beat.

 

[rushtest4echo]

You opinion is contrary to the facts though. Eisner wanted the movie park because he wanted to beat Universal to the punch. This was a reactionary move to Universal finally getting serious about building in Orlando. Disney "reacted" by turning a ride into a park and getting it built as quickly as possible, which is why the park only opened with 2 rides and a handful of other attractions.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

You opinion is contrary to the facts though. Eisner wanted the movie park because he wanted to beat Universal to the punch. This was a reactionary move to Universal finally getting serious about building in Orlando. Disney "reacted" by turning a ride into a park and getting it built as quickly as possible, which is why the park only opened with 2 rides and a handful of other attractions.

Which again means you are saying that Universal is pulling the strings, and Disney is only reacting to everything the other park is doing, right?

 

[rushtest4echo]

So you're saying that Universal is pulling the strings, and Disney is dancing to their beat.

Not sure how you gleaned that from what I said. But this is simple business economics. Don't be so naive to think that Disney doesn't look at what their nearest competitor does and react to that. It doesn't mean Disney is following Universal. If anything, it means that they wish to remain in a position ahead of their competitor- that's just common sense.

I'm no Universal fanboy. In fact I think most of the people here are far to eager to dismiss Universal mis-steps, congratulate them for improvements, and pretty much do the opposite for Disney. I whine about it all the time. But I don't need to make a case for Disney being reactionary to Universal's moves here in Orlando or anywhere else around the world. Opinion isn't needed. The facts bear this stuff out.

This is a back-and-forth, a tit-for-tat. Unviersal bought Port Aventura for a short time simply out of vanity because they wanted a park in Europe like Disney. Universal's building in Beijing in an attempt to do the same for China. Even Singapore/Korea were reactions to Hong Kong. There's nothing wrong with any of this though, but it's still all factual. Even specific rides like BTTF were direct reactions to rides like Star Tours. Pandora is a reaction to Wizarding World. Back and forth, and us here in Orlando are all the richer for it.

 

[Bocabear]

I think sometimes Disney is ahead, sometimes Universal is... it's a back and forth thing, and Disney definitely knew about Universal's plans on building the theme park... Disney MGM Studios may have opened first, but was a shell of a park that Universal had much more developed...Disney's movie park was a joke when it first opened...

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Not sure how you gleaned that from what I said. But this is simple business economics. Don't be so naive to think that Disney doesn't look at what their nearest competitor does and react to that. It doesn't mean Disney is following Universal. If anything, it means that they wish to remain in a position ahead of their competitor- that's just common sense.

I'm no Universal fanboy. In fact I think most of the people here are far to eager to dismiss Universal mis-steps, congratulate them for improvements, and pretty much do the opposite for Disney. I whine about it all the time. But I don't need to make a case for Disney being reactionary to Universal's moves here in Orlando or anywhere else around the world. This is a back-and-forth, a tit-for-tat. Unviersal bought Port Aventura for a short time simply out of vanity because they wanted a park in Europe like Disney. Universal's building in Beijing in an attempt to do the same for China. Even Singapore/Korea were reactions to Hong Kong. There's nothing wrong with any of this though, but it's still all factual.

While I certainly agree that Disney is watching what Universal does, I just cannot see Disney execs in a meeting saying "Universal just opened a new coaster in Florida, what are we going to do to counter it?". That's the part that makes no sense to me.

Did they open MGM earlier and with fewer attractions just to get it open before Universal? Sure, I already admitted that part.

 

[Bairstow]

Which again means you are saying that Universal is pulling the strings, and Disney is only reacting to everything the other park is doing, right?

It would be more fair to say that Disney has long been taking strategic moves to protect its market share which often take the form of imitation. That being said, it is far easier to find examples where Disney's competitors have been the ones doing the copying. Disney still is, after all, the industry leader.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

I think sometimes Disney is ahead, sometimes Universal is... it's a back and forth thing, and Disney definitely knew about Universal's plans on building the theme park... Disney MGM Studios may have opened first, but was a shell of a park that Universal had much more developed...Disney's movie park was a joke when it first opened...

And still is a joke compared to the rest of them, at least for the next few years!

 

[LuvtheGoof]

It would be more fair to say that Disney has long been taking strategic moves to protect its market share which often take the form of imitation. That being said, it is far easier to find examples where Disney's competitors have been the ones doing the copying. Disney still is, after all, the industry leader.

And that was my point. I guess I didn't really state it very well.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

So what was this in response to? Volcano Bay? One ride compared to a new water park? Not a good response if that is true.

 

[HitOfDisney]

I'm sure that's true, but according to Marty, they were working on many of the attraction concepts long before that. Some of those that they came up with were supposed to be for EPCOT, but Eisner wanted a new park. Again, I just don't think that Disney is concerned about what Universal Florida does with their theme parks. They have their own plans in mind that they are going to follow through on.

I will absolutely admit that this is my opinion, but I come to this conclusion after reading Marty's book.

You've made some solid points but this just can't be true. The drop off from perception between say WDW to Uni isn't that large as say the drop off between Uni and Sea World or Six Flags. To say Disney isn't concerned about their #1 competition would be naive.

I believe everything they do is to stay ahead of the curve or attempt to. Do they hear what Uni is doing and put a team of people to try and counter it? Not likely, I think they just strategically take concepts they have been working on and change them accordingly.

 

[HitOfDisney]

While I certainly agree that Disney is watching what Universal does, I just cannot see Disney execs in a meeting saying "Universal just opened a new coaster in Florida, what are we going to do to counter it?". That's the part that makes no sense to me.

Did they open MGM earlier and with fewer attractions just to get it open before Universal? Sure, I already admitted that part.

Why doesn't that make sense? Harry Potter came out and now they have 3 IP based lands in development. They didn't have that before did they?

 

[Kman101]

I can't believe any of you think that Disney builds something because of anything that Universal does. I don't believe one single thing being built or already built was "in response" to something built at Universal or any other theme park.

Exactly. I don't either. Universal does their thing, WDW does theirs. I'm sure there's some interest from each other on what the other is doing but there's room for both. It's not really the competition some want it to be. I know some won't be able to believe that but it's true. Universal wants to be the resort WDW is, and is well on their way. But many will believe there's some heated rivalry.

 

[Kman101]

I can't believe any of you think that Disney builds something because of anything that Universal does. I don't believe one single thing being built or already built was "in response" to something built at Universal or any other theme park.

Exactly. I don't either. Universal does their thing, WDW does theirs. I'm sure there's some interest from each other on what the other is doing but there's room for both. It's not really the competition some want it to be.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Why doesn't that make sense? Harry Potter came out and now they have 3 IP based lands in development. They didn't have that before did they?

So you think that these are "answers" to Potter, and that Disney never would have built them if Potter was never built?

 

[Bocabear]

YES! I really do...
Disney loves to skate by on past glory...

 

[LuvtheGoof]

YES! I really do...
Disney loves to skate by on past glory...

So Disney is spending over $3 billion dollars on Pandora and SWL to skate by on past glory?

 

[HitOfDisney]

Exactly. I don't either. Universal does their thing, WDW does theirs. I'm sure there's some interest from each other on what the other is doing but there's room for both. It's not really the competition some want it to be.

It seems like you guys have no idea how corporations work. Share Holders for sure notice things like these and look at those numbers. Why would Disney ever want to risk losing customers to their biggest rival? Do you think the people at Uni want more money?? I don't know them personally but I bet they do! When is #2 ever content with being #2? Not long because you quickly slip to #3 if so.