Volcano Bay

[lebeau]

Yeah. That's not how I do a water park. I'm there for the slides. I've got a pool at home. I can sit in the sun or water whenever I want weather permitting. Nor would I assume that's what the majority of people dropping hundreds of dollars are wanting to do. "I know there are loads of slides, but how about another 50 minutes in the wave pool, then some lounging?"

If that's your goal, you would probably be frustrated by Volcano Bay as it currently stands. All I can tell you is, it was a nice change of pace for me and from what I observed the majority of people there seemed to be having a great time. I didn't see one person who was visibly frustrated nor did I overhear a single complaint. Just smiling faces as far as I could see. I'm sure there were disgruntled guests that I did not observe, but I don't think the negative reviews capture the majority opinion of the park's guests so far. Purely anecdotal, but it is based on first-hand experience.

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

As an aside, does anyone know if there's any space for more loungers to be placed around VB as that seems to be a huge complaint? TL and BB seem to have areas all over to set base and sit down yet aerial shots of VB seem to show a limited area in front of the wave pool as being the main area there? If you're going to wait a while in a virtual queue you're probably better having more areas to sit as not everyone (my wife for instance) wants to spend a long time standing or in the water?

I think the issue is two fold: number available vs. park attendance, and park layout/signage.

There are quite a few seating areas spread around Volcano Bay, though the vast majority is clustered on the beach in front of the wave pool. Lockers are also spread around the park, which is a bit unusual as most parks usually put them all in one location near the entrance. Now, whether there's enough chairs and lockers for everyone when the park is 80-100% full, that I don't know.

Yellow = current beach/lounge areas (there's a handful of chairs in the kids area which I didn't circle)
Orange = lounge areas under construction
Blue = lockers/restrooms

(https://twitter.com/bioreconstruct/status/867847649038409729)

I also think better signage and maps indicating that these things are spread around the park could help. It seems the park originally opened with no standalone maps (a really dumb oversight). And the temporary sign(s) that went up within the first week as a quick fix leaves a lot to be desired as it's not very detailed (don't clearly show seating areas), has tiny print, and is rather confusing as slides are marked by 15+ unique symbols rather than letters or numbers.

(https://twitter.com/insideuniversal/status/869239155162796032/photo/1)

 

[SamHunt]

Mercy! After reading a few posts from here I seriously thought the place was downright terrible and a failure. After visiting a few days ago, I have to say, the harsh negativity here is crazy. Perhaps it's the fact it lowered my expectations by a long mile that helped. Many points here are very valid without a doubt but just exaggerated from my experience.

First of all, I really liked the slides (very thrilling) and the theming of the place, but of course there are many bugs and many things still aren't complete. The food was fantastic and the staff were very nice to us. A lot of the slides experienced downtimes (which should and will be reduced after a few months) which impacted how many slides we could ride. We rode about 7 slides when we went, with the max wait time of 225 min for the water coaster. The wavepool was really nice, and we experienced different waves. We also enjoyed the two lazy rivers, and even though the view inside the volcano was hideous, we thought it was cool to see inside the volcano. I, for one, am glad they kept the sides of the lazy rivers smooth (even though it kinda killed the theme). If it were rough, I probably would've received bruises from bumping around.

After reading so many posts about TapuTapu being a automatic failure in the first weeks is hard for me to comprehend. 3 weeks isn't enough time to iron out the many, many bugs a new service or product has to offer. It's like saying the Gringotts ride system is a failure due to the fact it kept going down in the first months. It's now one of the dependable ride systems at Universal. or it's like saying a new game is a failure a few weeks after debuting.

To sum it all up, Universal rushed this without a doubt, and that was a poor choice. It's backfiring on them and impacting many guests' experience. That shouldn't be an excuse to call VB/TT a failure for the future though. From what I saw around the park, this isn't the final product. They're adding more in, and they're still working on improving TT. We aren't waterpark people, but my family did agree that they did want to come back soon with VB "guest ready". I would give VB a 8/10 for now.

 

[mergatroid]

fixing-comcasts-volcano-bay-wont-happen-overnight.aspx

I'm posting this link, not because I necessarily agree with the "Motley Fool". Too be honest, I actually dislike it as a news source and even more so as an investing source because they always side on being extremely negative and not very fair with their reporting.

However, I am posting this link because now this notion of VB being a broken park is entering the public realm and this could start to impact VB's public perception and possibly bottom line.

Ultimately, the worst part of the negative public perception is that Universal dropped the ball on this. Up to this point Universal could do no wrong even with just some of the more recent attractions that are okay to good but not great. However, this could be a halt on their past momentum and momentum is everything especially with the Mouse across the road starting to wake up a bit.

That article mentions this

Volcano Bay began limiting guests to reserve just one slide at a time over the weekend. It had originally let them include the signature water coaster as a second reservation. That will help, a little. Universal Orlando can also remove some of the slides from the TapuTapu system, a call that would make the other virtual lines longer but at least give guests willing to wait in traditional water park lines more to do during the lull between reservations

Something some of us suggested but were told "We didn't understand the sytem" for suggesting?

 

[mergatroid]

Mercy! After reading a few posts from here I seriously thought the place was downright terrible and a failure. After visiting a few days ago, I have to say, the harsh negativity here is crazy. Perhaps it's the fact it lowered my expectations by a long mile that helped. Many points here are very valid without a doubt but just exaggerated from my experience.

First of all, I really liked the slides (very thrilling) and the theming of the place, but of course there are many bugs and many things still aren't complete. The food was fantastic and the staff were very nice to us. A lot of the slides experienced downtimes (which should and will be reduced after a few months) which impacted how many slides we could ride. We rode about 7 slides when we went, with the max wait time of 225 min for the water coaster. The wavepool was really nice, and we experienced different waves. We also enjoyed the two lazy rivers, and even though the view inside the volcano was hideous, we thought it was cool to see inside the volcano. I, for one, am glad they kept the sides of the lazy rivers smooth (even though it kinda killed the theme). If it were rough, I probably would've received bruises from bumping around.

After reading so many posts about TapuTapu being a automatic failure in the first weeks is hard for me to comprehend. 3 weeks isn't enough time to iron out the many, many bugs a new service or product has to offer. It's like saying the Gringotts ride system is a failure due to the fact it kept going down in the first months. It's now one of the dependable ride systems at Universal. or it's like saying a new game is a failure a few weeks after debuting.

To sum it all up, Universal rushed this without a doubt, and that was a poor choice. It's backfiring on them and impacting many guests' experience. That shouldn't be an excuse to call VB/TT a failure for the future though. From what I saw around the park, this isn't the final product. They're adding more in, and they're still working on improving TT. We aren't waterpark people, but my family did agree that they did want to come back soon with VB "guest ready". I would give VB a 8/10 for now.

That's good to hear that you enjoyed it, I'm certainly hoping it improves like you say as I'd like to visit it when it's operating a little better. And welcome to the boards

 

[lazyboy97o]

That article mentions this

Something some of us suggested but were told "We didn't understand the sytem" for suggesting?

Doesn't mean they understand it either. Reducing effective capacity will not improve wait times and the other issues associated with poor capacity. Poor capacity is the big overall issue and that doesn't get fixed with a reduction like you keep suggesting.

 

[mergatroid]

Doesn't mean they understand it either. Reducing effective capacity will not improve wait times and the other issues associated with poor capacity. Poor capacity is the big overall issue and that doesn't get fixed with a reduction like you keep suggesting.

It would increase some lines but make available some less popular slides to ride in between 'reservations'. Everything being equal it would make no difference but people's behavior could easily change if the system did and there was the choice of queuing.

Capacity is a big issue as I've agreed I don't know how many times but until that's addressed which isn't an easy option for the owners, then other options maybe worth trying. You disagree, I get that.

 

[JoeCamel]

That article mentions this



Something some of us suggested but were told "We didn't understand the sytem" for suggesting?

Munarriz has no more knowledge than any other poster here. Don't give his word weight because he has made a habit of posting to Motley Fool. He has an account on this board as well.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It would increase some lines but make available some less popular slides to ride in between 'reservations'. Everything being equal it would make no difference but people's behavior could easily change if the system did and there was the choice of queuing.

Capacity is a big issue as I've agreed I don't know how many times but until that's addressed which isn't an easy option for the owners, then other options maybe worth trying. You disagree, I get that.

It would make a huge difference because it would exacerbate the underlying capacity problem.

Slide 1 and Slide 2 each have a capacity of 100 people per hour. X = 10 people in physical stand-by. O = 10 people in virtual stand-by.

All Physical Stand-By - Scenario 1
Slide 1: XXXXX (30 min)
Slide 2: XXXXX (30 min)
Average: 30 min

All Physical Stand-By - Scenario 2
Slide 1: XXXXX XXXXX (60 min)
Slide 2: - (0 min)
Average: 30 min

All Virtual Stand-By - Scenario 1
Slide 1: OOOOO (30 min)
Slide 2 : OOOOO (30 min)
Average: 30 min

All Virtual Stand-By - Scenario 2
Slide 1: OOOOO OOOOO (60 min)
Slide 2: - (0 min, double dipping now allowed)
Average: 30 min

Mixed Stand-By - Scenario 1
Slide 1 (Mixed): OOOOO XXXXX (60 min)
Slide 2 (Mixed): XXXXX OOOOO (60 min)
Average: 60 min

Mixed Stand-By - Scenario 2
Slide 1 (Virtual): OOOOO OOOOO (60 min)
Slide 2 (Traditional): XXXXX XXXXX (60 min)
Average: 60 min

No additional people between the two slides, but you've doubled the wait with your "fix."

 

[lazyboy97o]

Technically- its still 30 mins- because youd get to ride 2 slides in the 60 mins.
But yes- it's not a fix.

Only if everything lines up perfectly for you. So much of this is the psychology of the numbers, so you don't fix that problem because the visible numbers are higher.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Munarriz, like everyone else, has misdiagnosed the main issue with the park. He is blaming capacity issues. Which is at least closer to the real problem than blaming Tapu Tapu. Blaming Tapu Tap is simply blaming the messenger. And carrying capacity isn't an issue. The problem is that ops aren't getting anywhere close to the parks carrying capacity. Between inexperienced ride ops and down times, the through put has been abysmal. The ride ops are getting it together now, but down times are still a HUGE issue. Friday was a down time disaster. Every attraction went down at least once. The weekend went better.

 

[dreamscometrue]

Munarriz, like everyone else, has misdiagnosed the main issue with the park. He is blaming capacity issues. Which is at least closer to the real problem than blaming Tapu Tapu. Blaming Tapu Tap is simply blaming the messenger. And carrying capacity isn't an issue. The problem is that ops aren't getting anywhere close to the parks carrying capacity. Between inexperienced ride ops and down times, the through put has been abysmal. The ride ops are getting it together now, but down times are still a HUGE issue. Friday was a down time disaster. Every attraction went down at least once. The weekend went better.

Pardon my ignorance, but how can slides at a water park have so much downtime? What is going wrong? I don't think of these as I do some of the complex ride systems that sometimes suffer downtime issues...ie: Test Track or Escape from Gringotts

 

[SamHunt]

Pardon my ignorance, but how can slides at a water park have so much downtime? What is going wrong? I don't think of these as I do some of the complex ride systems that sometimes suffer downtime issues...ie: Test Track or Escape from Gringotts

From looking around the slides, you can see sensors installed all around. If any of those sensors fail, they'll shut down the slide. Along with the fact if the water pressure is wonky or the filters report a problem, that can also cause it to shutdown. A new system of computers, filters, pumps and sensors will bring bugs for UO to iron out.

 

[Rob562]

From looking around the slides, you can see sensors installed all around. If any of those sensors fail, they'll shut down the slide. Along with the fact if the water pressure is wonky or the filters report a problem, that can also cause it to shutdown. A new system of computers, filters, pumps and sensors will bring bugs for UO to iron out.

Don't forget tube and raft conveyors.

-Rob

 

[mergatroid]

Youre still not understanding then, if you believe that to be true. Are you a math guy? I am, hopefully you are too- but even if you aren't, the numbers are pretty easy to follow.

10 single person slides- each can do 100 rides in an hour. 1,000 Rides, yes?

All 10 rides are virtual with Tapu Tapu- 1,000 rides an hour.
Say there are 2,000 guests. Everyone wants to slide all the slides equally- thats 2 hrs wait for everyone on average.

Following me so far?

Now- 5 rides are virtual- 500 in an hour.
5 rides are traditional- 500 in an hour.
The same 2,000 guests are now waiting 4 hours on average for the virtual slides.
The same 2,000 guests are now waiting 4 hours on average for the traditional slides.

They get to ride 2 slides in 4 hours. Or one every 2 hours. Exactly the same as if they were all virtual.


Now- I get what you're saying regarding perception- so take the guests looking up at a traditional line- and they see it's 4 hours worth of waiting- then they don't get in line. Maybe those wait drops to 1 hour because only 500 of the 2000 are willing to wait that long for a 20 second slide. But that still does nothing but increase the wait times of the headliners- as there are less virtual slides to queue for.
It's an all or none thing for Tapu Tapu- splitting it up or allowing reservations would only make it worse in every scenario.


Again- this isn't complicated whatsoever. It's a capacity issue- period. Faster ops, more rides, or less attendance are the only fixes. Nothing else.

That's the part where the argument may fall down. Your formula assumes everybody wants to ride every slide and they all are in the park for the same amount of time, they probably don't and won't be. The more popular slides may have bigger queues with longer waits but you could at least ride others without a reservation in between. Right now people are allegedly taking reservations for slides they may not normally wait for as otherwise they may have to not ride anything for 4 hours. Their behavior is dictated by the length of time the virtual queue is which can throw the balance of numbers off of people riding slides that they may not normally queue for. People are coming away saying they could only ride slides they didn't really want to as when they arrived at the park they weren't willing to wait 4 hours and ride nothing.

Also for the tapu, tapu system to work it also needs other factors like capacity (90% of the problem and a huge mess), however dismissing the virtual queue as not being any part of the problem whatsoever is not strictly accurate. For it to work as it should the visitors need to understand how it works properly and it can't take into account that human nature and visitor patience means people won't naturally conform to a mathematical formula that they're unaware of and distribute themselves evenly in each queue.

My suggestion is they could try something else to see it improves anything, bearing in mind people want to do different things than the formula wants them to?

 

[mergatroid]

People keep saying capacity issues, simple solution let less people in.

This 100%. The reason many are suggesting other fixes is because Universal don't seem to be doing this, it's that simple.

 

[JoeCamel]

Okay, so I'll agree that capacity issues are part of the problem.....but and its a big but. We can't sit here and act like they shouldn't have expected these capacity issues. Wet n wild was #4 most visited park in the country.
In this day and age, trust me Universal is using analytics. They knew exactly the amount of people that would come to this park....They also knew exactly how Tapu, Tapu would handle the volume. Also, don't tell me about inexperienced ride ops slowing things down either especially two weeks into it. I also don't want to hear that they had no back up plan. They had to know this was going to happen. This is not Universals first time opening up a park. If you think this whole situation wasn't intentionally done, then you are choosing to be naive about this. This is why they are fast tracking additional slides before the park even opened up.. This was the plan all along. Multi billion dollar organizations don't fall into chaos like this by accident. They plan chaos.

There is also a fix for this whole problem.....wait for it....Reduce capacity!!!! Universal will never do that. They would rather you wait around and spend more money on drinks and food... And this was the intended master plan all along!
I read a thread this morning how someone said things were improving. He got to ride 7 whole slides the other day.
It is amazing how people are willing to put the blinders on for Universal.

People keep saying capacity issues, simple solution let less people in.

They did reduce admissions and lowered the cap. I hope they get it worked out so they can admit more guests soon

 

[mergatroid]

Sigh...

I agree that Tapu Tapu and a virtual queue in and of itself makes more people be "in line" than normally would be. But you cant split it up. Which rides would you suggest they make traditional queues? I'm interested to hear- because every single slide has a line and it's helping the capacity of all the other rides. So what do you remove from virtual queue and add to stand by, thereby pushing all those in that virtual queue to another virtual queue.
And please don't use the cop out "that's for Universal to figure out"- I'd like to hear what rides you'd suggest they switch over.

If there is no line and it's "ride now"- they can do that with the current system.

You're throwing your hands up at a brand new system with brand new attractions and brand new ride operators. Did I mention it's all brand new? No need to reinvent the wheel until you get the current system as efficient as it can be- which it isn't now with new ops and ride closures and the like.

"Try something else to see if it helps" is not a realistic game plan.

Somebody on this thread has already told us it's not a brand new system and mentioned exactly where it's from. I'm not sure what you mean by 'thereby pushing all those in that virtual queue to another virtual queue'? If there were other slides with no virtual queue then why assume people couldn't go on those rather than assuming they'd join a second virtual queue (you could still maintain only 1 virtual reservation at a time).

I don't know the names or the capacity of all the slides so how could I tell you which to make virtual and which to make standby only? I'm merely stating that the option of doing that could possibly work along with suggestions of altering capacity and increasing slide loading times. The fact that I cannot tell you which slides should be tapu, tapu and which slides could be standby only doesn't prove my idea wrong, it may not work however we're suggesting ways of trying to improve things and I've yet to see concrete evidence that nothing can better the current system. I'm not saying I or anyone has the perfect solution right now, but I'm merely trying to see whether there's other ways of doing stuff.

As for "Try something else to see if it helps" is not a realistic game plan" would mean you never try anything to improve things, how does that work? Do you think that the reason systems evolve is down to people not trying tweaking things or trying improving things, do you believe that genuinely?

 

[mergatroid]

To your bolded- if you turn say, a ride that is 40 mins virtual into a stand by traditional line- those people in that queue are still going to virtually queue for something- so you'd push all 40 mins worth of them amongst all other virtual queues.

To your last paragraph- of course you try to improve things. But I'm sorry- when someone says "just fix this", "just change thisL blah blah- yet has no idea what why're talking about- like you- I can't take it seriously.
So you don't even know the names of the slides. You don't even know the capacity of the slides. You don't even know the current waits of the slides.
Yet you have an idea of how to fix the problem- and we should take that seriously?
Sorry, no. Why don't you research it all out- come back with the specific attractions we should switch from virtual to stand by, and then I can easily explain why it wouldn't work.

Otherwise, you're the equivelant of saying "there are people starving in the world- we should fix it!"- yet don't do anything or have any reasonable solution. An idea or desire- and a legitimate plan or option are two entirely different things.

Show me where I've said 'just fix this'? I'm making suggestions that possibly tweaking the system they started with might improve things and you're saying there's no need to change tapu, tapu or words to that effect.

Interestingly Universal allegedly tweaked their system at the weekend by changing the reservation system that allowed 2 reservations (1 coaster + 1 other slide) to just 1 reservation according to a report. So are you still saying that tweaking the system can't work and isn't worth trying, because certainly the people at Universal who operate the park don't agree with you?

Notice how I don't dismiss your posts by claiming you don't know what you're talking about, always comes across as rude to me that.

 

[UCF]

From looking around the slides, you can see sensors installed all around. If any of those sensors fail, they'll shut down the slide. Along with the fact if the water pressure is wonky or the filters report a problem, that can also cause it to shutdown. A new system of computers, filters, pumps and sensors will bring bugs for UO to iron out.

Also my understanding is new pools, during their curing process, cause pH to dramatically change, on top of the normal load and sometimes the chemical feeds are not designed to handle the load of a freshly plastered pool, especially on top of a large amount of people in the pool. On top of the poorly trained staff could possibly be failing to get all of the feeders reloaded in time.

 

[mergatroid]

Show me where I've said they shouldn't tweak anything.

Switching from 1+1 was an obvious and correct move. Mathematically it makes sense. Removing EP was an obvious and correct move. Mathematically it makes sense.

Switching a portion of the rides to traditional while keeping the others virtual won't work. Period. Mathematically a horrible idea. Horrible. Can I be anymore clear?

Unless you can tell me WHICH rides need to switch, then we don't need to carry on further. Unless you'd like me to go ride by ride and switch each one individually to show you how horrible of an idea it is.

If you want to say get rid of Tapu Tapu and that'll create shorter lines- I'll agree with you 110%, as I've said in multiple previous posts. Namely- no one can be in a stand by line when they're eating, pooping, wave pooling or lazy rivering. With virtual they can. But switching half the rides or 10% or 80% simply overload the remaining virtual rides. It's all or nothing. For the 30th time.

If you didn't say that I apologise. It's been said by somebody on here dismissing any alterations or discussions of alterations and I thought it was you. I originally suggested some tweaks of the new system and was shot down instantly, that has led to me suggesting other ideas to have a continuing debate and this is where you seem to have joined in. I've never said a particular idea of mine was right, some refuse to debate anything to do with tapu, tapu though including your "If you want to say get rid of Tapu Tapu and that'll create shorter lines- I'll agree with you 110%" statement. They won't discuss anything else including small tweaks or changes which is very frustrating.