Rumor Version of MaxPass coming to WDW in May?

[UNCgolf]

1. Old EMH was typically just 1 park on any given day. Now, eligible guests will be split between 4 parks.
2. It’s actually a lot more people eligible. Several off-site partner hotels get the perk. But despite 100,000+ eligible people, only a small percentage ever fully took advantage of morning EMH rope drop. Just as only a small portion of a day’s total attendance is ever present at regular rope drop. (More than once.. arriving 30 minutes before EMH rope drop, I’ve been the first person at the turnstiles)
3. let’s use your FOP example though. Right now, every single guest — off-site and on-site — is eligible for FOP rope drop. And the late arriving rope droppers — those that show up right at rope drop time, might indeed have a 60 minute wait. But those that were at the front of the ropedrop line will have a walk-on.
4. In the future, off-site guests will always be at the back of the rope drop line. An off site guest that arrives 2 hours before park opening.. will be at the end of the rope drop line. While the on-site guest who arrived 30 minutes before the Early Entry can now probably walk on to FOP.

Right, which is what I said. It's obviously still a significant disadvantage to off-site guests and disincentivizes staying off-site for anyone who cares about rope drop.

I do wonder if that will change going forward, though. If FastPass becomes something that's only available as a paid extra (or even if the number of free ones drops to 2 or 1) and Disney starts to really push the 30 minutes early as a significant benefit for resort guests, the number of people taking advantage could increase significantly -- especially since there's no more night time hours. I imagine some people who used to wait for the night version may occasionally use the morning version now so as to still have some extra benefit.

I doubt it will ever become something used by anything remotely near 100% of guests, but I would definitely not be surprised to see the usage spike upwards.

 

[Jeffxz]

I like that premier pass with express pass after 4pm. I am most likely buying 4 before our next trip to add a Universal day to every Disney trip.

If you buy the pass before the end of march online, you can get 15 months for the price of 12.

 

[Jon81uk]

I guess it's not an issue because the same thing could/should have happened with the old EMH, but you never really hear anyone complaining about that so I guess it didn't? I don't really understand how, though, given the simple math involved.

This is is the bit I don’t get. Several people have stated that 30minutes won’t be enough time and it takes time to walk to attractions. But some of that was true for old EMH when it was 60 minutes and yet I don’t recall seeing complaints that EMH isn’t worthwhile.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This is is the bit I don’t get. Several people have stated that 30minutes won’t be enough time and it takes time to walk to attractions. But some of that was true for old EMH when it was 60 minutes and yet I don’t recall seeing complaints that EMH isn’t worthwhile.

Because board posters are a very small percentage of the customer base. And we tend to have the extremes too...the crazy loyalists and the axe to grind complianers.

It will be interesting to see how this goes no matter what. My sneaking suspicion is that the way they’re doing it is to ween people off EMH altogether...to where it’s an afterthought/not a thing anymore. Then selling fast passes in the mid morning or afternoon seems more exciting.

But just a hunch. The other thing goes to straight math. If you reduced anything by 50%...in any scenario...it’s a completely different thing with diminished effectiveness. I’ve seen some
Doozies these last two days altering the laws of physics and the space/time continuum to squeeze 2-3-4 rides down to the second.

I wish the world had a habit of moving along with that kinda precision.

 

[Purduevian]

My prediction on all of this: Fastpass+ returns for all guests, but is now limited to 2 advanced reservations (plus the current rolling unlimited). On Site guests still get a time advantage for booking these.

Without a ton on advertising outside of Delux resorts and near park entrances, Disney starts selling Fastpass+ Unlimited and Fastpass+Packages.

Fastpass+Unlimited works just the same as Universal express pass Unlimited. Packages give you FP access to a group of rides only once for a smaller price than the Unlimited. Think a MK classics package with Pan, small world and HM,. Fatansy Land special with 7D, Pooh, and Dumbo.

From Disney's side they now divide the current FP+ Availability as they see fit to meet the current FP+ distribution(~75% per ride), but now it is split into 3 buckets of general population (100% controlled), Packages (100% controlled), and leaving a certain allocation for the unlimited. As they learn where the unlimited go, they can tweak these %s as they please and can even do it day of by dropping extra general population passes.

Advantages:

• General population doesn't feel like they lost too much (still get my 2 FPs!) even though the inventory for all attractions is significantly reduced.
• General population has no idea how many people are actually cutting by paying vs using the free system
• Packages tier allows revenue for those that wouldn't spring for unlimited
• Packages can also drive people toward smaller attractions by tiering it with other rides
• An unlimited pass for those willing to drop the big $$, without wanting to have a plaid CM

 

[havoc315]

Because board posters are a very small percentage of the customer base. And we tend to have the extremes too...the crazy loyalists and the axe to grind complianers.

It will be interesting to see how this goes no matter what. My sneaking suspicion is that the way they’re doing it is to ween people off EMH altogether...to where it’s an afterthought/not a thing anymore. Then selling fast passes in the mid morning or afternoon seems more exciting.

Like all things, they are looking to cut costs, boost revenue and profits. They have been monetizing "night EMH" for a while, so they wanted to get rid of "free night EMH." Expect even more late night parties being sold.

The switch in the morning is fairly low cost, while still providing a good incentive to boost on-site bookings. And it will more evenly distribute guests by having it at all parks. And by limiting it to half-hour, it gives them an opportunity to monetize longer morning events more effectively.

But just a hunch. The other thing goes to straight math. If you reduced anything by 50%...in any scenario...it’s a completely different thing with diminished effectiveness.

Just remember, they have actually increased morning "EMH" with this change. They go from 1 morning per week per park, for 1 hour -- So a total of about 4 morning hours per week, switching it to 14 hours per week. So it's a significant increase in morning time being offered.

I’ve seen some
Doozies these last two days altering the laws of physics and the space/time continuum to squeeze 2-3-4 rides down to the second.

I wish the world had a habit of moving along with that kinda precision.

Disney diehards know how to tour!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Like all things, they are looking to cut costs, boost revenue and profits. They have been monetizing "night EMH" for a while, so they wanted to get rid of "free night EMH." Expect even more late night parties being sold.

The switch in the morning is fairly low cost, while still providing a good incentive to boost on-site bookings. And it will more evenly distribute guests by having it at all parks. And by limiting it to half-hour, it gives them an opportunity to monetize longer morning events more effectively.




Just remember, they have actually increased morning "EMH" with this change. They go from 1 morning per week per park, for 1 hour -- So a total of about 4 morning hours per week, switching it to 14 hours per week. So it's a significant increase in morning time being offered.




Disney diehards know how to tour!

I couldn’t agree with you more.

Problem is it’s all awful for the customer.

 

[TTA94]

If anyone believes that Disney will simply institute a pay-for FP system and reap an extra billion or two... I think you’re ingesting a bit too much pixie dust. Could they? Certainly, since there seems to be no shortage of rubes at this time willing to open their credit cards to Disney (plus all that guvmint phunny money, baby!!!). However... Yet another “privilege” to pay for will push many guests away who have been near the tipping point. Could they make up for them? Perhaps. I know I’ve been going for 40 years and have begun to question at what point it no longer makes sense to go, and every price increase pushes us closer to the edge. I know I’m not the only one who feels this way. And word of mouth these days travels much more quickly than ever. Obviously negative word of mouth is what they want to avoid, but even they can’t control it once it gets legs. Nickel and diming has its limits. Are they happy to push away long-time, long-spending guests for the first-time rubes? Time will tell, I guess, but it doesn’t seem like a good decision on the surface.

If they start charging for nighttime show viewing, that’s really going to push many over the edge. Even if they don’t charge and just make it free required reservations (FPs), while that won’t be a extra expense, it’s definitely going to be a inconvenience for many to obtain. In particular MK.

 

[havoc315]

I couldn’t agree with you more.

Problem is it’s all awful for the customer.

It's not really black and white. For each aspect, there will be consumers who ultimately like the change.
The morning EMH change could be a net positive. In fact, I dare say -- If they had been doing 30 minute early entry for every park for the last 20 years, and they suddenly switched it to 1 morning hour for 1 park per week -- You'd have a revolt. Everyone would be saying, "this switch from Early Entry to EMH is awful!"

The elimination of night EMH with more monetized events... There will be some guests who actually appreciate the change, the flexibility of "purchasing" a night as desired. There will be guests who basically say, "now, instead of buying a 3 day ticket to go through throngs of crowds, it's actually cheaper for me to just buy 2 night parties, and I can really enjoy low crowds."

Of course, where the night change would become really hard to rationalize -- Is if they start shutting down the parks more and more often at 6:00 p.m., to offer monetized events. So that evenings and nights are no longer really included in your day ticket.

 

[Jrb1979]

It's not really black and white. For each aspect, there will be consumers who ultimately like the change.
The morning EMH change could be a net positive. In fact, I dare say -- If they had been doing 30 minute early entry for every park for the last 20 years, and they suddenly switched it to 1 morning hour for 1 park per week -- You'd have a revolt. Everyone would be saying, "this switch from Early Entry to EMH is awful!"

The elimination of night EMH with more monetized events... There will be some guests who actually appreciate the change, the flexibility of "purchasing" a night as desired. There will be guests who basically say, "now, instead of buying a 3 day ticket to go through throngs of crowds, it's actually cheaper for me to just buy 2 night parties, and I can really enjoy low crowds."

Of course, where the night change would become really hard to rationalize -- Is if they start shutting down the parks more and more often at 6:00 p.m., to offer monetized events. So that evenings and nights are no longer really included in your day ticket.

Don't be surprised when that does happen. IMO Covid gave them a good reason to implement things they have always wanted to do.

 

[TTA94]

It's not really black and white. For each aspect, there will be consumers who ultimately like the change.
The morning EMH change could be a net positive. In fact, I dare say -- If they had been doing 30 minute early entry for every park for the last 20 years, and they suddenly switched it to 1 morning hour for 1 park per week -- You'd have a revolt. Everyone would be saying, "this switch from Early Entry to EMH is awful!"

The elimination of night EMH with more monetized events... There will be some guests who actually appreciate the change, the flexibility of "purchasing" a night as desired. There will be guests who basically say, "now, instead of buying a 3 day ticket to go through throngs of crowds, it's actually cheaper for me to just buy 2 night parties, and I can really enjoy low crowds."

Of course, where the night change would become really hard to rationalize -- Is if they start shutting down the parks more and more often at 6:00 p.m., to offer monetized events. So that evenings and nights are no longer really included in your day ticket.

That’s my thoughts. Add to that the amount of sell outs which will become very frustrating. I think we might find as well that many will choose to be at the night events over daytime. In particular APs.

 

[havoc315]

That’s my thoughts. Add to that the amount of sell outs which will become very frustrating. I think we might find as well that many will choose to be at the night events over daytime. In particular APs.

I could see the paid night events being very popular with DVC owners, especially if they can get a discounted ticket. Book a weekend, don't bother with regular park tickets... just make it a resort trip with 1 big party night in a park.

 

[sullyinMT]

If anyone believes that Disney will simply institute a pay-for FP system and reap an extra billion or two... I think you’re ingesting a bit too much pixie dust. Could they? Certainly, since there seems to be no shortage of rubes at this time willing to open their credit cards to Disney (plus all that guvmint phunny money, baby!!!). However... Yet another “privilege” to pay for will push many guests away who have been near the tipping point. Could they make up for them? Perhaps. I know I’ve been going for 40 years and have begun to question at what point it no longer makes sense to go, and every price increase pushes us closer to the edge. I know I’m not the only one who feels this way. And word of mouth these days travels much more quickly than ever. Obviously negative word of mouth is what they want to avoid, but even they can’t control it once it gets legs. Nickel and diming has its limits. Are they happy to push away long-time, long-spending guests for the first-time rubes? Time will tell, I guess, but it doesn’t seem like a good decision on the surface.

This is an excellent point. For those willing (and I realize it isn't for everybody), there comes a point with tickets, food, and a bubble-resort stay that a week at WDW comes close or even exceeds a week on a Caribbean DCL sailing.

I love the parks, and the theming of the resorts. I love that there always seems to be something new, while having old favorites to enjoy. I have no problem with, or can at least look past, a lot of the changes that have come in my relatively short WDW enjoyment as a parent. Heck, we thought our first trip would be our once-in-a-lifetime experience, but we've found ourselves back yearly ever since.

The concept of paid line jumping is one I can deal with, as we visit Cedar Fair parks every couple years and choose our Universal hotels strictly for that benefit. So long as it isn't prohibitive, or they underprice it to the point of the current market saturation of FP+, then I'm ok with seeing how it plays out. If it becomes a deluxe resort perk, we may finally make that Saratoga or Poly trip fantasy come true, depending on pricing gaps between deluxe and moderate.

Another question/nuance is whether Disney would force the purchase for the entire length of stay. At other parks using the pay to play model, you can pick and choose which days you buy. I wonder if WDW would go that route, or whether the purchase would be like DDP, and need to be added to your whole ticket package length - some kind of Park Hopper Super Plus option. Of course, the micro-transaction model throws all of that out the window.

 

[aliceismad]

That walking to the old fast pass podiums was just too inconvenient...having to book laugh floor 58 days before you leave was much better.

I would much rather book FPs 60 days before than walk to the old FP podiums. Maybe that makes me dumb, but we walk so much already at WDW. Minimizing steps truly is a goal sometimes. Also, coming from far away and not visiting often, I like to be able to "guarantee a short line" for favorite headliners. (I know that probably means I've just drank the kool-aid and don't understand the true implications vs. my perception. But perception is a powerful thing.)

That said, I would much rather have FPs only for Tier 1 rides. Most of the rides that have FP shouldn't.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I would much rather book FPs 60 days before than walk to the old FP podiums. Maybe that makes me dumb, but we walk so much already at WDW. Minimizing steps truly is a goal sometimes. Also, coming from far away and not visiting often, I like to be able to "guarantee a short line" for favorite headliners. (I know that probably means I've just drank the kool-aid and don't understand the true implications vs. my perception. But perception is a powerful thing.)

That said, I would much rather have FPs only for Tier 1 rides. Most of the rides that have FP shouldn't.

I don’t think you’re dumb.

I’m just saying that the first fastpass provided more overall flexibility and flow.

Opinions vary.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It's not really black and white. For each aspect, there will be consumers who ultimately like the change.
The morning EMH change could be a net positive. In fact, I dare say -- If they had been doing 30 minute early entry for every park for the last 20 years, and they suddenly switched it to 1 morning hour for 1 park per week -- You'd have a revolt. Everyone would be saying, "this switch from Early Entry to EMH is awful!"

The elimination of night EMH with more monetized events... There will be some guests who actually appreciate the change, the flexibility of "purchasing" a night as desired. There will be guests who basically say, "now, instead of buying a 3 day ticket to go through throngs of crowds, it's actually cheaper for me to just buy 2 night parties, and I can really enjoy low crowds."

Of course, where the night change would become really hard to rationalize -- Is if they start shutting down the parks more and more often at 6:00 p.m., to offer monetized events. So that evenings and nights are no longer really included in your day ticket.

You basically disagreed with me by agreeing with me.

In the long run, nobody wants more premiums or block pricing...they just don’t know it yet. Slippery slope

 

[havoc315]

You basically disagreed with me by agreeing with me.

In the long run, nobody wants more premiums or block pricing...they just don’t know it yet. Slippery slope

I just see it as more nuanced. They Early Entry is likely to be a win for most on-site guests, an improvement over morning EMH.
The effects on the night, it will indeed benefit some guests, not others. (and ultimately, perhaps not most).

 

[UNCgolf]

How far in advance did they announce the previous EMH?

Were those schedules available 6 months out? I feel like they weren't, but I might be wrong.

 

[havoc315]

How far in advance did they announce the previous EMH?

Were those schedules available 6 months out? I feel like they weren't, but I might be wrong.

Yes, they were available. Though they sometimes changed -- sometimes an EMH got added.
But they tended to follow a weekly schedule. I forget exactly what it was, but like Tuesday mornings are EMH at Magic Kingdom, Thursday nights at Epcot, Saturday mornings at DHS, etc. They stuck to those scheduled but sometimes shifted due to holidays, paid parties, etc.

 

[pdude81]

30 minutes really isn't enough. It's almost laughable. But for the time being, given capacity limits and having to stagger transportation to the different parks, having an hour or more extra benefit at fewer parks could lead to transportation issues and poor guest satisfaction when off-site guests struggle to have any chance at getting the EMH park on their chosen day. A better solution for the consumer would be an extra hour each morning instead of a half hour. But that's as much or more extra time then they were giving us when there were no restrictions... so it ain't happening. Not at 35%.

I am curious how they are planning to let people into the parking lot when this starts, as they will either need dedicated lanes for on-site guest cars or risk a lot of people congregating at the entrance if they let everyone in at the same time.