Utilidors on in MK?

[jakeman]

Utilidors were genius for their time ... and were designed for show as well as service.

But that was in the day when you'd never see a Cowboy or a JC skipper outside their area. Show isn't quite as important in 2009.

Nor was it quite as important in 1982 with Epcot (given the limited tunnels), or in 1983 at Toyko Disney, or 1988 with MGM, or 1992 at Disneyland Paris, or 1998 at Animal Kingdom.

 

[chaggy102]

On the map provided by MissM, the locations for egress all say "stairs to so and so". Are there any elevators? How would the utilidor system comply with the ADA standards?

Yes there are elevators near most of the stairways...I can only think of a handful of stairways that are not mirrored by an elevator.

 

[disneybuff79]

my source is a Traditions class I was in when I became a cast member, it was on a video they showed us. And I have worked at MK before and been in the tunnels and seen signs that say fallout shelter. Maybe it wasn't during the cuban missile crisis, but I have seen thats one of the reasons it was built. The big doors have since been taken out, but I tell you, they were going to be used as fallout shelters.

 

[mattyoglet]

On the map provided by MissM, the locations for egress all say "stairs to so and so". Are there any elevators? How would the utilidor system comply with the ADA standards?

There are elevators down there. Im not sure exactly about ADA however Id imagine that it would have come up by now if there were a compliance issue.

 

[Timon]

my source is a Traditions class I was in when I became a cast member, it was on a video they showed us. And I have worked at MK before and been in the tunnels and seen signs that say fallout shelter. Maybe it wasn't during the cuban missile crisis, but I have seen thats one of the reasons it was built. The big doors have since been taken out, but I tell you, they were going to be used as fallout shelters.

The tunnels were never used as a fallout shelter, never had big doors. Although, there used to be a 2' tall temporary flood barrier in the early days to stop flooding coming in the tunnel entrance but bigger better pumps were added.

The signs you saw say EVACUATION ROUTE for clearing the tunnels.

There are elevators at key locations, often near restaurants.

The only situation the tunnel could be possibly used for might be for a tornado shelter. This is not confirmed. If I wanted a safe (and comfortable) place at WDW from just about anything the 2nd Floor of the Contemporary tower is protected by concrete and steel and no windows except for a few glass doors.

 

[chaggy102]

my source is a Traditions class I was in when I became a cast member, it was on a video they showed us. And I have worked at MK before and been in the tunnels and seen signs that say fallout shelter. Maybe it wasn't during the cuban missile crisis, but I have seen thats one of the reasons it was built. The big doors have since been taken out, but I tell you, they were going to be used as fallout shelters.

Any stairway or elevator that says fallout on it..means that it's a fireworks fall out shelter...meaning fireworks can fall down in that area and it needs to be clear during firework displays.

 

[Kamikaze]

I think one reason for the Magic Kingdom having the Utilidors was out of necessity... As the Magic Kingdom itself is on the second floor and the Utilidors are the first floor

Uhh, what?

Its on the second floor because they built the ground up to that high so they could put the utilidors in.

 

[Kamikaze]

There are elevators down there. Im not sure exactly about ADA however Id imagine that it would have come up by now if there were a compliance issue.

I doubt the tunnels have to be ADA compliant, since 1) they predate the code, and 2) they are not for public use.

Edit: Sorry for the double post, I forgot this board doesn't automatically add your posts together if you're the last poster still.

 

[Timon]

I doubt the tunnels have to be ADA compliant, since 1) they predate the code, and 2) they are not for public use.

You are correct but those early planners were smart as most everything is ramped and has elevators to stores, restaurants and main offices. There are some stairs off by themselves but usually there is a nearby elevator.

 

[trr1]

so theoredically you could have cast members in wheelchairs

 

[PhotoDave219]

Plus the entrance at the back of the park is at ground level. You walk off the bus and straight into the Utilidors.

Between that and elevators, I'm not too concerned about the ADA act.

 

[Timon]

I doubt the tunnels have to be ADA compliant, since 1) they predate the code, and 2) they are not for public use.

You are correct but those early planners were smart as most everything is ramped and has elevators to stores, restaurants and main offices. There are some stairs off by themselves but usually there is a nearby elevator.

SORRY...about the double post. Senior moment.

so theoredically you could have cast members in wheelchairs

Yes, there are wheelchair cast members down there.

 

[DisneyCane]

I think the ramps and elevators making it ADA compliant was more of a case of "Excellence by Accident". I'm sure everything was ramped because they were planning to have carts and things pushed around and elevators put in to get said carts and other heavy items to the places they needed to be. The fact that the design allows CMs with wheelchairs is a side benefit.

 

[Timon]

I think the ramps and elevators making it ADA compliant was more of a case of "Excellence by Accident". I'm sure everything was ramped because they were planning to have carts and things pushed around and elevators put in to get said carts and other heavy items to the places they needed to be. The fact that the design allows CMs with wheelchairs is a side benefit.

"Excellence by Accident" !!! Love it. How true.

Odd Tunnel FYI:
Disneyland has three tunnels. 1. Tunnel to the elevator stage in Tomorrowland. 2. Rocket Rods load tunnel between today's Buzz Lightyear and the old WEDway tower. 3. New Orleans Square - Kitchens, break areas etc.

EPCOT. Hidden tunnel from West Innoventions tunnel to the Future World fountain pump room.

MK Possible small tunnel addition to the Princess Meet and Greet building starting near the Tunnel entrance/Wardrobe - Not confirmed.

 

[Phonedave]

my source is a Traditions class I was in when I became a cast member, it was on a video they showed us. And I have worked at MK before and been in the tunnels and seen signs that say fallout shelter. Maybe it wasn't during the cuban missile crisis, but I have seen thats one of the reasons it was built. The big doors have since been taken out, but I tell you, they were going to be used as fallout shelters.

There are/were many many buildings that were labled as "fallout shelters" that provided little to no protection from fallout. Others provided generic exposure protection. A fallout shelter does not need to be sealed all the way around with "blast doors" it can be open, if the ends are constructed properly to prevent the straight line propagation of radation.

The Cuban Missle Crisis was part of the reason for Fallout Shelters, but the real overacing reason was the whole Cold War, which started before WDW was conceived, and ended after construction. I remember in grade school, we used to have Civil Defense supplies stocked in case of an attack.

So what does all of this mean. Well, I was never a CM, and have no solid proof, but my guess is that there were Fallout Shelter signs at one time for the Utilidors. They could have been used for fallout shelters under the definition that was used in that era. Every baement of a school, library, telephone building, or other similar structure was labled "Fallout Shelter". However I doubt they were specificaly built for such a purpose.


-dave

 

[Captain Hank]

Disneyland has three tunnels. 1. Tunnel to the elevator stage in Tomorrowland. 2. Rocket Rods load tunnel between today's Buzz Lightyear and the old WEDway tower. 3. New Orleans Square - Kitchens, break areas etc.

EPCOT. Hidden tunnel from West Innoventions tunnel to the Future World fountain pump room.

MK Possible small tunnel addition to the Princess Meet and Greet building starting near the Tunnel entrance/Wardrobe - Not confirmed.

There's also a tunnel under the West end of Pleasure Island, connecting the lower levels of the Adventurers Club and Comedy Warehouse with a small cast cafeteria and the outside. It also contains some offices.

 

[Tom]

MK Possible small tunnel addition to the Princess Meet and Greet building starting near the Tunnel entrance/Wardrobe - Not confirmed.

It would make sense to extend the tunnels to the northeast a bit, since they never really accommodated the ToonTown area. Stairway #23 is as close as you get, currently, and I'm not 100% positive where it actually comes up.

I doubt the tunnels have to be ADA compliant, since 1) they predate the code, and 2) they are not for public use.

Edit: Sorry for the double post, I forgot this board doesn't automatically add your posts together if you're the last poster still.

If they've done more than a few thousand dollars worth of work (and I know they have) to any specific facility, it must be brought up to current ADA code. However, the MK utilidors have always been fairly accessible, since they're ramped or flat, have a main entrance from grade, and have elevators at many stair locations.

ADA applies to public and private areas. You can't deny employment (for non-casted roles) because someone is in a wheelchair. So, the tunnels so, in theory, need to be accessible.

my source is a Traditions class I was in when I became a cast member, it was on a video they showed us. And I have worked at MK before and been in the tunnels and seen signs that say fallout shelter. Maybe it wasn't during the cuban missile crisis, but I have seen thats one of the reasons it was built. The big doors have since been taken out, but I tell you, they were going to be used as fallout shelters.

I've seen photos of the tunnel construction. The walls and lids are not suited for any type of blast or radiation. The concrete isn't thick enough, and there is no radiation shielding.

Besides, there are nearly 30 entrances to the tunnel system making it infeasible to shut blast doors of any type in a short time span.

The primary, documented reason for the tunnels was to provide a way for CMs to get from wardrobe to their work location without ruining the magic. And, to provide a more efficient way for F&B and Merch to distribute goods.

An added bonus was that they could install all of their underground utilities in an exposed manner. Many large cities have similar tunnels under their streets for the very same reason - they just weren't designed for humans to work in (for long periods of time).

 

[WDW1974]

Nor was it quite as important in 1982 with Epcot (given the limited tunnels), or in 1983 at Toyko Disney, or 1988 with MGM, or 1992 at Disneyland Paris, or 1998 at Animal Kingdom.

EPCOT has limited tunnels, but also considerable backstage infrastructure to keep CMs that are in transit or off the clock out of the public eye. There was no need for them there.

Tokyo upholds the traditional Disney show standards, so they make sure they don't have cowboys in Tomorrowland or Pirates in the World Bazaar etc ...

MGM was built as a working studio, where you could use the excuse of seeing folks in different areas.

DLP seems to have no problem keeping people in their right areas or off-stage ... hell, for the first time I noticed there why I had never really noticed custodial CMs there before. It was very simple. They all wear land-appropriate costumes (so cowboys are sweeping in Frontierland, for example). None of the white generic outfits you get in O-Town.

But this is all tangential to the original point, which is the tunnels were -- and are to some extent today -- great ways of keeping distractions from taking you out of the story, the sense of time and place.

Oh, and the tunnels were never built as any sort of fallout shelters etc ... but that's a great new Internet/CM/urban/fanboi myth we can start here!

 

[jakeman]

EPCOT has limited tunnels, but also considerable backstage infrastructure to keep CMs that are in transit or off the clock out of the public eye. There was no need for them there.

Tokyo upholds the traditional Disney show standards, so they make sure they don't have cowboys in Tomorrowland or Pirates in the World Bazaar etc ...

MGM was built as a working studio, where you could use the excuse of seeing folks in different areas.

DLP seems to have no problem keeping people in their right areas or off-stage ... hell, for the first time I noticed there why I had never really noticed custodial CMs there before. It was very simple. They all wear land-appropriate costumes (so cowboys are sweeping in Frontierland, for example). None of the white generic outfits you get in O-Town.

But this is all tangential to the original point, which is the tunnels were -- and are to some extent today -- great ways of keeping distractions from taking you out of the story, the sense of time and place.

Oh, and the tunnels were never built as any sort of fallout shelters etc ... but that's a great new Internet/CM/urban/fanboi myth we can start here!

The point you tried to convey with your original post doesn't match up with the facts and what you have posted here.

You stated that show doesn't matter in 2009 because theme parks do not have tunnels. I listed theme parks going back 20 years (I'll give you Epcot) that also didn't have tunnels. Your logic is flawed. Tunnels are not a correlation to show.

However, I am fully prepared for an off topic rant about hotel discounts, prime rib on the buffets, F&W tastings, and possibly some unasked for political commentary.

Good to have you back! :animwink: :lol:

 

[WDW1974]

The point you tried to convey with your original post doesn't match up with the facts and what you have posted here.

You stated that show doesn't matter in 2009 because theme parks do not have tunnels. I listed theme parks going back 20 years (I'll give you Epcot) that also didn't have tunnels. Your logic is flawed. Tunnels are not a correlation to show.

Oh jake, you must have missed me. I'm surprised I haven't been stalked by JT yet.

There's nothing flawed in my logic. It's a fact that the tunnels were built with show being one of the factors. If you are saying they aren't necessary for there to be good show then I would agree.

However, I am fully prepared for an off topic rant about hotel discounts, prime rib on the buffets, F&W tastings, and possibly some unasked for political commentary.

Good to have you back! :animwink: :lol:

Just wait until I start comparing WDW to DLP and DL. That's when the real fireworks will begin.