PeterAlt
Well-Known Member
Wow. I'll just let that fester for a bit.
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PeterAlt
Well-Known Member
One thing I noticed was that the facade of Its a Small World at DL "fits in" thematically (style wise) to Alice in Wonderland. Maybe the two attractions can be built right next to each other (assuming the current IASW at WDW is taken out of its current space).
Yes they do, but there is a huge market for having at least part of them inside a theme park.
What convention would you rather go to?
One with a banquet in a big square room with movable partition walls in some hotel or convention center or one where you get to eat dinner with the Munchkins in the land of Oz?
misterID
Well-Known Member
Another sad truth.
You would hope they would use a bit more finesse, though, by creating a better convention space that doesn't hinder or sacrifice park space... but then it comes down to priorities, and it's very disappointing where those priorities rest in regards to their parks, imo. But, you're absolutely correct.
You are quite correct in that. All convention space seems in the parks seems to be an after thought.
The obvious one. But the parent company needs to decide what it's really into. Theme parks or conventions.
twilight mitsuk
Well-Known Member
and moved to EC
It is into money so they will go whichever way the dollar takes them.
Sad but true.
Wonders if a travesty. Showplace gets off since there's other free plots available.
Slowjack
Well-Known Member
Oddly enough, the spaces on either side of the American pavilion weren't put in for future countries, but because there was a blue-sky plan to have a second lagoon south of the first one, and those spaces were how you would have reached it. Yes, incredible as it sounds now, Disney at one point thought they might not have enough room for all the pavilions that would eventually reside in World Showcase.
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Slowjack
Well-Known Member
That's not quite on target. Dinosaur and Indy don't just share the same underlying ride tech. The ride layouts are the same, too. I would say a better analogy would be Body Wars and Star Tours. Of course, Disney could re-develop the Indy ride concept to enhance the differences. Personally I would love to see an Indy ride at WDW; Dinosaur was never more than pretty good, in my opinion, and has only gotten worse over time.
PeterAlt
Well-Known Member
Yes, I've been saying that for years.
mm121
Well-Known Member
Interesting, to the south would make more sense aesthetically, but not sure thats possible now with the way the road is there etc, though im sure anything could be possible with enough $$$, could tunnel the road under the park or something.
any further info on where you heard that at?
Overall if they added a second lagoon, I'd just move the USA pavillion to the new lagoon, rather than making it an island, as that in my mind just gives the wrong impression that somehow the usa is seperate from the rest of the world.
If they really did add a second lagoon either on the east side as I showed in a photo, or the south side as you suggest, or even BOTH, the world showcase would then be justified as a park completely in its own right.
that would be full 20 plus the USA, plus the 7 to the east, and however many would be in the new southern lagoon (say maybe 10/15, DANG that would be amazing.
It is a shame that they haven't added any countries since the parks been open, epcot really just needs a full makeover,
Lets just hope they dont add DVC to the world showcase like has been rumored.
mm121
Well-Known Member
Lots 7 and 8 while the structure isn't "trailers" it was originally intended as temporary, and though it may be used, it would be better to develop the showcase as countries, as was originally intended, however keeping this in mind, i'm sure they could incorporate convention/event spaces into the new countries, or into the expanded southern lagoon that was a blue-sky project, or an eastern lagoon space.
all the uses your mentioning for lots 4/5/6 are temporary uses, so theres nothing stopping those uses from being moved elsewhere, theres nothing built on any of the expansion pads that can't be relocated
PeterAlt
Well-Known Member
@Slowjack I've heard that before about a second lagoon, but this is the first time I've heard about the spaces at the American Pavilion being reserved as waterways for it.
EC is riddled in mysteries of defunct blue sky dreams. The monorail footings for the once-planned downtown Disney spur is but one example.
The space reserved for a WEDway PeopleMover on the second floor of CommiCore is another.
I would love to make a listed collection of these.
The second lagoon would definitely be part of that list. Do you have any graphic or art showing what was being proposed?
EC is riddled in mysteries of defunct blue sky dreams. The monorail footings for the once-planned downtown Disney spur is but one example.
The space reserved for a WEDway PeopleMover on the second floor of CommiCore is another.
I would love to make a listed collection of these.
The second lagoon would definitely be part of that list. Do you have any graphic or art showing what was being proposed?
PeterAlt
Well-Known Member
Gives new meaning to "soul train"! Lol
Slowjack
Well-Known Member
I guess all the parks have big ideas that never make it, but somehow the Epcot Center ones are more poignant. I've always felt that the unifying theme of EC was optimism, and in the early years, there really was this sense that as good as it was, we were just seeing the beginning. Let's not forget how many plots in World Showcase had the billboards up proclaiming "On this site will be built...", as though more pavilions were a done deal.
I couldn't find a great example of the second lagoon in concept art, but I did find this a pic of a mass model for an earlier design.
You can see this shows the earlier design of some of the Future World pavilions. But I'm confident they had the second lagoon as a later-phase possibility even with the built design. I wish I could find it, but there's a quote from Marty Sklar around the time of opening to this effect. That said, the second lagoon idea seems kind of nuts. Not just because we now know that they don't need more space in World Showcase, but just because of the size. Epcot is tiring enough as it is. I can't imagine being far behind the American Adventure and contemplating a walk back to the entrance. Although maybe the second lagoon would have included a Wedway or some other way of saving our legs.
PeterAlt
Well-Known Member
This is the best post I've seen in a long time here. In a brochure I found on the web that was scanned from original marketing materials of the Disney subsidiary that owned the monorail and WEDway PeopleMover rights during the early '80's, there was a line that said that there was plans to use EPCOT Center to test future monorail and transportation technologies. I wondered what they could possibly be talking about. Maybe they had a plan that would have connected the second lagoon?I guess all the parks have big ideas that never make it, but somehow the Epcot Center ones are more poignant. I've always felt that the unifying theme of EC was optimism, and in the early years, there really was this sense that as good as it was, we were just seeing the beginning. Let's not forget how many plots in World Showcase had the billboards up proclaiming "On this site will be built...", as though more pavilions were a done deal.
I couldn't find a great example of the second lagoon in concept art, but I did find this a pic of a mass model for an earlier design.
You can see this shows the earlier design of some of the Future World pavilions. But I'm confident they had the second lagoon as a later-phase possibility even with the built design. I wish I could find it, but there's a quote from Marty Sklar around the time of opening to this effect. That said, the second lagoon idea seems kind of nuts. Not just because we now know that they don't need more space in World Showcase, but just because of the size. Epcot is tiring enough as it is. I can't imagine being far behind the American Adventure and contemplating a walk back to the entrance. Although maybe the second lagoon would have included a Wedway or some other way of saving our legs.
I was like 13 when EPCOT opened. I was there during a soft opening and after it officially opened. I remember the signs you're talking about very clearly. In FW, there were signs for Living Seas, Horizons, Life and Health Pavilion, Space, and Tron Arcade. Space and Health were supposed to be Omnimover rides. In WS, there were signs for Equatorial Africa, Spain, and Israel. In CommuCore (innovations), there was a conference room that I don't think I was allowed into, but it had concept art poster boards of all the future plans for EC at that time. One poster board showed was a property map that showed future expansion of the monorail as a red dotted line. Last year, I found a vendor on eBay selling it and I made sure I saved the pictures of it.
If you go back to my posting history on this site (about two years ago), you will find that some people here were outright hostile toward me when I told them there was such a room and that I "snook" into it when I was 13 and accused me of either lying or seeing things when I mentioned the monorail expansion plan poster board. The ambition of EC back then was more than just a monorail expansion spur. It was the second lagoon and many other things. Thanks for posting!