Universal Studios new disability pass

[WDWFREAK53]

I agree they have the right to voice that and I have my right to voice my thoughts. saying over and over again that they don’t like it is not going to make anything change.

Well, if those rough numbers about "1/5" are correct...if "1/5" of the people don't like the new changes and stop going....do you think something will change?

 

[Tom Morrow]

The original purpose of the pass was to remove barriers by creating a common system that would be used by multiple destinations. You were supposed to be able to take the pass to participating locations and receive the accommodations without the hassle of having explain your needs over and over again. It was supposed to remove having to deal with the variety of different policies and the wild variety of staff who may or may not properly understand the law and the needs of guests.

That’s not how it is working in practice. Instead of removing barriers it is adding barriers. The pass is instead being used as just an initial screening process. What was previously a one step process is now a multi-day, multi-step process. The whole process could easily take a week from requesting documentation from your medical provider to finally speaking with Universal. The whole purpose of accessibility is that it should just be there as much as possible.

If I had to guess, this was never about convenience and that was just a way for them to put a positive spin on it. It's likely entirely about cutting down on scammers by at least requiring some form of documentation for proof, a pre-arranged effort, and also removing the burden of deciding who gets what accommodations from guest services employees who are not trained in the medical field.

But cutting down on the widespread abuse of the cards is, in the end, a very good thing that benefits everyone, including people who actually need the accommodations. The pass is also good for a year, so overall not that much of a burden for frequent visitors.

I suspect people will complain for a while and eventually just accept it and move on. The same complaints were thrown around 10 years ago when Disney started requiring return times for their disability passes instead of treating them as unlimited Fastpasses. "This is illegal! They're violating the ADA!" Only, they weren't, and eventually the complaints died out.

 

[lazyboy97o]

If I had to guess, this was never about convenience and that was just a way for them to put a positive spin on it. It's likely entirely about cutting down on scammers by at least requiring some form of documentation for proof, a pre-arranged effort, and also removing the burden of deciding who gets what accommodations from guest services employees who are not trained in the medical field.

But cutting down on the widespread abuse of the cards is, in the end, a very good thing that benefits everyone, including people who actually need the accommodations. The pass is also good for a year, so overall not that much of a burden for frequent visitors.

I suspect people will complain for a while and eventually just accept it and move on. The same complaints were thrown around 10 years ago when Disney started requiring return times for their disability passes instead of treating them as unlimited Fastpasses. "This is illegal! They're violating the ADA!" Only, they weren't, and eventually the complaints died out.

I’m not guessing about why the pass was created and how it was sold.

There are legal concerns that arise with requiring documentation because the goal of such legislation is to generally remove barriers not to mention the privacy issues. Abuse, which isn’t as great as you claim, is not a defined, permissible reason for enacting barriers.

 

[Chi84]

I’m not guessing about why the pass was created and how it was sold.

There are legal concerns that arise with requiring documentation because the goal of such legislation is to generally remove barriers not to mention the privacy issues. Abuse, which isn’t as great as you claim, is not a defined, permissible reason for enacting barriers.

I think a business can ask for documentation if a person asks for accommodation in excess of what the ADA explicitly requires. For example, the ADA covers wheelchair ramps and service dogs, so a business can’t require documentation for those accommodations.

But this is a new area where the law may still be developing.

 

[Tom Morrow]

I’m not guessing about why the pass was created and how it was sold.

There are legal concerns that arise with requiring documentation because the goal of such legislation is to generally remove barriers not to mention the privacy issues. Abuse, which isn’t as great as you claim, is not a defined, permissible reason for enacting barriers.

Okay so why has Six Flags been able to have this system in place for a while now with no legal repercussions, but now it’s suddenly an issue here?

And abuse is as bad as I’m claiming. I’ve seen the numbers. They’re not top secret - just make some friends with some operations people.

 

[My95cobras]

Well, if those rough numbers about "1/5" are correct...if "1/5" of the people don't like the new changes and stop going....do you think something will change?

what numbers?

 

[Chi84]

Okay so why has Six Flags been able to have this system in place for a while now with no legal repercussions, but now it’s suddenly an issue here?

And abuse is as bad as I’m claiming. I’ve seen the numbers. They’re not top secret - just make some friends with some operations people.

The numbers are what I was asking about before, but you said the way to find out is ask any cast member or try to see the abuse for yourself while in line. If there are actual numbers supporting what you're saying, that would be helpful.

I know some type of evidence is being collected because it was referred to in one of the lawsuits against Disney when they went from the former system to the current one.

Also, the numbers at theme parks would show how many people are using disability accommodations but I'm not sure how they could show abuse; in other words, you can see how many are using the system but how can you know how many don't need it.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Okay so why has Six Flags been able to have this system in place for a while now with no legal repercussions, but now it’s suddenly an issue here?

And abuse is as bad as I’m claiming. I’ve seen the numbers. They’re not top secret - just make some friends with some operations people.

Accessibility laws are enforced civilly, after the fact. It requires someone to complain to the Department of Justice, relevant state agency or file a lawsuit in state or federal court. Read almost any article about businesses being sued over accessibility and you’ll almost certainly see a quote along the lines of “We been doing this for years” or “We were told by so-and-so this was okay.”

Universal has also added an additional step beyond Six Flags’ process. Six Flags doesn’t call you for further questioning to decide whether or not to actually honor the Accessibility Card. The trade off for a more involved process was supposed to be greater access to more facilities, but having facilities then decide for themselves to honor or reject the Accessibility Card removes that greater access. Six Flags shifted the decision making process, but Universal has just added layers to the decision making process.

You have seen numbers on use, not abuse. As was already pointed out to you, the baseline of disabilities within the general population remains higher than use at the parks. Yes, some disabilities generally related to mobility and vision do not require additional accommodations, but many people have multiple disabilities that impact their life. The effort the parks in central Florida have placed on accessibility also means they attraction people who might otherwise not bother to visit other attractions.

 

[mkt]

what numbers?

The anecdotal spitballing from another poster which puts the number of people with disability passes in theme parks at 20% less than rate of actual persons with disabilities in the general population.

 

[celluloid]

There is not much privacy issue because you are the person giving permission.

Privacy comes more from not allowing the medical facility or staff to reveal your personal information to anyone outside of said office.

As a patient, you are requesting that information and giving permission for this third party so it is typically fine.

It is also why Universal has this company doing it. It is a company that does this and it is one more thing off their plate for efficiency and proper procedure.

 

[Tom Morrow]

what numbers?

The numbers are what I was asking about before, but you said the way to find out is ask any cast member or try to see the abuse for yourself while in line. If there are actual numbers supporting what you're saying, that would be helpful.

I know some type of evidence is being collected because it was referred to in one of the lawsuits against Disney when they went from the former system to the current one.

Also, the numbers at theme parks would show how many people are using disability accommodations but I'm not sure how they could show abuse; in other words, you can see how many are using the system but how can you know how many don't need it.

So first, you’re not going to get the numbers. They’re never going to post this. This is one of those things where, I know it sucks and is anecdotal, but is widely known among operations and guest services Orlando park employees. The sheer number of people who obtain cards and also the number that obtain them over false pretenses is so well known among employees (that work with this) that the fact that you are combatting it makes me assume that you know nobody involved in the Orlando theme park employment scene.

Also as to who is faking it and who isn’t, requiring medical documentation is a good way to start, as those who legitimately have an issue will also have documentation while those who just knew the right thing to tell Guest Services may not. Yes you can still get your doctor to give you a note saying you have (issue), but that’s significantly more steps to scam the system beyond just saying the “right” thing at Guest Services to get the pass.

Universal has also added an additional step beyond Six Flags’ process. Six Flags doesn’t call you for further questioning to decide whether or not to actually honor the Accessibility Card. The trade off for a more involved process was supposed to be greater access to more facilities, but having facilities then decide for themselves to honor or reject the Accessibility Card removes that greater access. Six Flags shifted the decision making process, but Universal has just added layers to the decision making process.

I can see why this is upsetting, but also Six Flags parks do not see the widespread use and abuse of the cards that the Orlando parks do. Their clientele being mostly teenagers and locals who aren’t putting any thought or planning into their day visit makes a big difference, compared to the Orlando parks where people are saving up for potentially a once in a lifetime visit and researching every possible way to maximize their time. Which inevitably leads to discovering “tips” online saying “tell guest services you can’t wait in long lines because you have anxiety and you get a pass that allows you to increase how much you can ride in a day.”

 

[My95cobras]

The anecdotal spitballing from another poster which puts the number of people with disability passes in theme parks at 20% less than rate of actual persons with disabilities in the general population.

so…. At your numbers, 1 in 4 people need a line skipping pass?

 

[Figgy1]

a line skipping pass?

It's not a line skipping pass.

 

[My95cobras]

It's not a line skipping pass.

then what does it do other than let you not wait in line?

 

[Figgy1]

then what does it do other than let you not wait in line?

It makes you spend money while waiting in an alternative location

 

[mkt]

so…. At your numbers, 1 in 4 people need a line skipping pass?

Not my numbers, the CDC’s numbers.

And it’s not a line skipping pass. It’s a come back later for a shorter line pass.

 

[mkt]

then what does it do other than let you not wait in line?

Let’s you wait elsewhere while doing other things, like shopping.

 

[WDWFREAK53]

Maybe the only true way around this is to scan everybody in at every attraction. If they have the disability pass, they can't enter another attraction's queue if they've received a return time at an attraction.

I guess the abuse would be due to those getting a return time for Velocicoaster but riding JP River Adventure while you wait for your return time.

 

[My95cobras]

Not my numbers, the CDC’s numbers.

And it’s not a line skipping pass. It’s a come back later for a shorter line pass.

so every one of those people With a disability can’t wait in line? I’m guessing there is a fair share of people whose disability does not require that accommodation. If not, there wouldn’t be anyone in the regular line.

 

[mkt]

so every one of those people With a disability can’t wait in line?

Given that the cited number is lower than the general population, not everyone with a disability uses it.