Universal Puts Disney's Reopening on Defensive

[DisneyCane]

Glass door is inaccurate. Middle mgt couples at Disney clear $200K a year?. Pure fantasy. More like $110K a year if they work in operations. Winter Garden blew up as slaves to debt mentality. Live above your means and drown in debt.

Then entire suburban USA blew up as slaves to debt mentality as did WDW attendance. The mentality of far too many Americans is to get whatever you want now, use credit to buy it and worry about paying it back or filing bankruptcy in a few years.

 

[BurnyMcBurnerface]

Glass door is inaccurate. Middle mgt couples at Disney clear $200K a year?. Pure fantasy. More like $110K a year if they work in operations. Winter Garden blew up as slaves to debt mentality. Live above your means and drown in debt.

This is how Disney continues to pay its front-line managers peanuts - they’re indoctrinated to think that everyone who works for Mickey is in the same boat and those big numbers they see on Glassdoor for the multiple layers of support teams sitting in the air conditioning all day aren’t actually true.

Two entry-level senior analysts, each of whom would have no direct reports and never have to deal with CPs or call-outs or angry guests, clear a minimum of 160. Absolute minimum. 180 with any tenure or negotiating skill if they were external. 200 if both have been there for 10-15 years.

I get it, it’s soul crushing if you’re trying to make a living in Operations. But the original point was about how Disney carries so much extra bloat. We can agree that the bloat does exist even if you refuse to believe how well paid the bloat is.

 

[Lilofan]

Then entire suburban USA blew up as slaves to debt mentality as did WDW attendance. The mentality of far too many Americans is to get whatever you want now, use credit to buy it and worry about paying it back or filing bankruptcy in a few years.

You just described about 4 out of 5 homeowners in my neighborhood and many of my co-workers lifestyle.

 

[Lilofan]

This is how Disney continues to pay its front-line managers peanuts - they’re indoctrinated to think that everyone who works for Mickey is in the same boat and those big numbers they see on Glassdoor for the multiple layers of support teams sitting in the air conditioning all day aren’t actually true.

Two entry-level senior analysts, each of whom would have no direct reports and never have to deal with CPs or call-outs or angry guests, clear a minimum of 160. Absolute minimum. 180 with any tenure or negotiating skill if they were external. 200 if both have been there for 10-15 years.

I get it, it’s soul crushing if you’re trying to make a living in Operations. But the original point was about how Disney carries so much extra bloat. We can agree that the bloat does exist even if you refuse to believe how well paid the bloat is.

Senior analysts get paid well but are very few of them. Let's see later in the year if some of them are going to be part of the eventual mass layoffs.

 

[WDWTrojan]

Because managing thousands of minimum wage churro vendors isn't the same as managing a dozen professionals. Hence why theme park "executives" will always make less than their studio counterparts. Studio executives openly mock theme park "carnies" - been that way for 40 years and the pay disparity backs it up.

Again, not speaking of operations executives. Someone running an ops department with 3,000 direct reports is one thing. However, the nature of that kind of operation pulls down the titling/salary for positions with directly comparable counterparts from California. A PR executive with three direct reports who drafts press releases all day might be a Manager in Florida, while someone with the same job and same # of direct reports might VP in another division of the company. It's just a very bottom heavy organization with little room to advance above a manager-level, even in professional roles.

 

[Lilofan]

Nonsense. The scope of Disney provides more promotional opportunities than any company for which I've both worked and consulted. If you simply acknowledging the obvious math of an organization that has thousands of lower level employees and every ring above them is progressively smaller until you get to the CEO - then, um. Thanks for the insight.

I've known some who worked at Disney. If one has the desire, one can set up meet and greets with depts they are interested working in, job shadows etc. It requires a lot of desire and never giving up.

 

[Ldno]

You just described about 4 out of 5 homeowners in my neighborhood and many of my co-workers lifestyle.

Is that Bad? I lived that lifestyle and right now I’m spending all my money paying it back... it’s no fun... i only have one more payment left so i can be debt free but still it’s no fun! Never again, granted I’ll keep lines open but not ever max them out AGAIN

 

[WDWTrojan]

Nonsense. The scope of Disney provides more promotional opportunities than any company for which I've both worked and consulted. If you are simply acknowledging the obvious math of an organization that has thousands of lower level employees and every ring above them is progressively smaller until you get to the CEO - then, um. Thanks for the insight.

No, you are continuing to miss the point. The nature of Walt Disney World's structure leads to people in Florida often having a lesser title than someone in Burbank or Glendale doing the same job, with the same # of direct reports. Directors and VPs are a dime a dozen in California, but relatively rare in Florida. Again, some of that has to do with the nature of the operation but a lot of it is just the culture there.

Example: One of my co-workers in Burbank was a VP overseeing a creative department. Her direct counterpart in Florida, who had the same responsibilities she did, but for Walt Disney World, instead of this division, was a Manager-level. It was consistently baffling to her when they had the same job and the same number of people under them. That is a common theme. You don't really notice it until you have worked in both areas.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Then entire suburban USA blew up as slaves to debt mentality as did WDW attendance. The mentality of far too many Americans is to get whatever you want now, use credit to buy it and worry about paying it back or filing bankruptcy in a few years.

Merica...dog eat dog, surviving dog declare bankruptcy

Again, not speaking of operations executives. Someone running an ops department with 3,000 direct reports is one thing. However, the nature of that kind of operation pulls down the titling/salary for positions with directly comparable counterparts from California. A PR executive with three direct reports who drafts press releases all day might be a Manager in Florida, while someone with the same job and same # of direct reports might VP in another division of the company. It's just a very bottom heavy organization with little room to advance above a manager-level, even in professional roles.

correct. Bottom heavy is what you have when the pay is lower than comparable experience/skill near across the board.

Nonsense. The scope of Disney provides more promotional opportunities than any company for which I've both worked and consulted. If you are simply acknowledging the obvious math of an organization that has thousands of lower level employees and every ring above them is progressively smaller until you get to the CEO - then, um. Thanks for the insight.

It’s a complete logjam for the vast majority with very little opportunity for advancement...if we’re being honest.

The one thing Disney still does is allow low qualification individual to work a long time for a mediocre rise...but is that a good thing?

Disney does not pay well. As evidence by the number of middle management who swear they aren’t underpaid.

Surest sign that they are.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

No, you are continuing to miss the point. The nature of Walt Disney World's structure leads to people in Florida often having a lesser title than someone in Burbank or Glendale doing the same job, with the same # of direct reports. Directors and VPs are a dime a dozen in California, but relatively rare in Florida. Again, some of that has to do with the nature of the operation but a lot of it is just the culture there.

Example: One of my co-workers in Burbank was a VP overseeing a creative department. Her direct counterpart in Florida, who had the same responsibilities she did, but for Walt Disney World, instead of this division, was a Manager-level. It was consistently baffling to her when they had the same job and the same number of people under them. That is a common theme. You don't really notice it until you have worked in both areas.

It’s not baffling...:California has higher expectations of pay and advancement and Florida has been “price controlled” since at least 1964.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Disney pays what it needs to get the quality it wants. Want an ops manager at a theme park or a marketing manager in Winter Garden to be a cog in a theme park machine? That pays X. Want a truly talented executive in Burbank where there is competition for "A players"? That costs Y. (Note: Y > X)

The other perception in Burbank (which is 100% true by the way as evidenced by the cavalcade of Disneyland "presidents" over the past decade) is that the theme park business is a machine and nobody really has an impact one way or another so all employees, managers, and executives are interchangeable as the machine just keeps cranking along. There is absolutely not that perception of the other divisions where management believes there is more individual impact, hence the willingness to pay more for talent.

On this we completely agree.

I’ve spent near 20 years telling People in my “grown up world” about the operation in Florida and how it runs mostly in spite of itself...

The amazement that places such as the “flagship” hotel - $300 and up then and now more like $600 and up - was run by the mostly incompetent then (outside of V&A...loved chef scott) is just unfathomable.

...I’m sure it’s better now though

 

[disneygeek90]

What's this have to do with Universal? Someone catch me up.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

What's this have to do with Universal? Someone catch me up.

Tangents need a match to start

 

[BurnyMcBurnerface]

It’s a complete logjam for the vast majority with very little opportunity for advancement...if we’re being honest.

And add in lazy leaders who build walls around their high performers when those infrequent opportunities arise because replacing a 90th percentile performer with even a 50th percentile performer would expose that they don’t have any idea what they’re doing.

 

[Magic Feather]

I am hearing that some Orlando based parks are already considering on reducing hours due to the major uptick in cases.

That would be the excuse at least. The real reason is that attendance has been crazy low, even compared to their avg. projections. Universal tried to open just about everything at once (not opening one hotel that hadn’t previously opened is the only major thing they didn’t do), and it bit them in the rear financially, hard. Stuff has started to get better, with weekend actually hitting their projections, and weekdays getting a little better, but they are starting to reverse course a little already, rolling back some staffing decisions and whatnot.

I always thought that was a possibility for Disney too. Not in July but come Sept if demand is still way down they could stagger one park closed each weekday Mon-Thur. Keep all 4 open on the weekends. It makes a lot of sense operationally.

Universal could close IOA on Mon/Wed and Studios on Tue/Thur. You theoretically cut pure park operating costs in half and still have enough capacity to meet demand. You lose some revenue on muti-park tickets and would have to either close the train or maybe just make it round trip. Or they could keep Potterlands open in both parks all the time and just rope off the exits out of the lands. If Studios park is closed the only way to get to Diagon Alley would be by HE. Sorta like the train at AK to conservation station minus the smelly animals

Uni would almost never consider that. Thanks to HE, Park-to-Park tickets make up a crazy percentage of their tickets sales compared to before it opened (and compared to Disney’s park hopper tickets). This is especially lucrative when you realize that Universal’s park to park tickets are a pretty big upcharge (almost double on a one day ticket). I’d expect to see select offerings closed or with reduced hours before they dreamed of closing an entire dry park for a day.

Yeah, WDW is a notoriously bottom heavy organization. Very hard to get above the Manager level. In Burbank where VPs and Directors are a dime a dozen, there are very few in Orlando, comparatively. It was always stunning with someone with a Manager-level title would be interacting with a VP in Burbank, even though their jobs were basically the same, in addition to the Manager having more direct reports.

Eh... yes and no. Looking into the ops/on the ground side of Disney, that is very true. BUT, if you are starting off in a cubicle/office building (not in HR and not as a contractor), with a little grit and experience under your belt, you can work your way around the company.

What's this have to do with Universal? Someone catch me up.

Your connection:
Universal Parks and Resorts is far more separated from Comcast Corporate compared to Disney Parks and Disney Corporate. As a result, it is a little more common to see parks-grown people in higher positions there.

 

[Thelazer]

This is how Disney continues to pay its front-line managers peanuts - they’re indoctrinated to think that everyone who works for Mickey is in the same boat and those big numbers they see on Glassdoor for the multiple layers of support teams sitting in the air conditioning all day aren’t actually true.

Two entry-level senior analysts, each of whom would have no direct reports and never have to deal with CPs or call-outs or angry guests, clear a minimum of 160. Absolute minimum. 180 with any tenure or negotiating skill if they were external. 200 if both have been there for 10-15 years.

I get it, it’s soul crushing if you’re trying to make a living in Operations. But the original point was about how Disney carries so much extra bloat. We can agree that the bloat does exist even if you refuse to believe how well paid the bloat is.

Depending on what business unit your talking about here.. your math is off.

 

[Lilofan]

Is that Bad? I lived that lifestyle and right now I’m spending all my money paying it back... it’s no fun... i only have one more payment left so i can be debt free but still it’s no fun! Never again, granted I’ll keep lines open but not ever max them out AGAIN

It is not bad but it's a huge slap in the face for some and some that just don't care. Kudos to you for making a difference and to get out of debt is SO satisying!

 

[Sir_Cliff]

That would be the excuse at least. The real reason is that attendance has been crazy low, even compared to their avg. projections. Universal tried to open just about everything at once (not opening one hotel that hadn’t previously opened is the only major thing they didn’t do), and it bit them in the rear financially, hard. Stuff has started to get better, with weekend actually hitting their projections, and weekdays getting a little better, but they are starting to reverse course a little already, rolling back some staffing decisions and whatnot.

This really doesn't seem surprising; who's going to be there most weekdays? I'd imagine once the pent up local demand was satisfied, the tourists would be very thin on the ground.

I'm very curious to see what happens when WDW opens up four parks in July. As well as school holidays already being in full swing, one thing that might work in Disney's favour is that they'll have a decent amount of people in hotels and DVC who decided not to cancel their bookings that will keep things ticking along and give them some idea of what to expect ahead of time. I assume that wasn't really the case when Uni re-opened. Still, will be interesting to see so many parks open at a time when travel is so depressed.

 

[peter11435]

As well as school holidays already being in full swing,

Well, that’s basically been since March.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Well, that’s basically been since March.

Are students over there not continuing classes online?