lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
The brutal truth is also that Universal is 3/3 on fumbling new park openings in Orlando.
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Universal Epic Universe (South Expansion Complex) - Opens May 22 2025
- Thread starter Bob Harlem
- Start date
Andrew25
Well-Known Member
Universal isn't opening Epic with the mindset that it'll take away guests from MK... they want to compete with all the other parks.
DAK is my favorite park, but that park will suffer the most from Epic with people's limited time and money available. when visiting Orlando. If you weren't convinced of spending a day or two at Universal... you now have even more of an incentive.
DAK is my favorite park, but that park will suffer the most from Epic with people's limited time and money available. when visiting Orlando. If you weren't convinced of spending a day or two at Universal... you now have even more of an incentive.
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
It does need contextualization that Avatar was announced at the start of the partnership and nothing really had been done or known to Imagineering. It was an executive level partnership announcement. Anything announced for this D23 (for real, not blue sky fodder) should be at least 18-24 months further along and also less prone to strong partner oversight slowing it down… for better and worse!
The easier Uni analogy for Avatar is Super Nintendo World. Which frankly was announced 10 years in advance of Epic Universe and actually truly announced for Florida 9 years in advance. Not a criticism of either really, but WDW really could and should be constructing projects within 18 of today… if they want to of course. Projects that probably are going to align with Luigi’s mansion or the Zelda/Pokémon projects.
trr1
Well-Known Member
SplashJacket
Well-Known Member
From what I expect from the opening-day ride-lineup, it’ll contend with the best in Orlando from day 1.
The announcements today don’t really even acknowledge any of the rides, so I would expect a park who’s main focus is the rides to not blow anyone out of the water.
Distinctly, the park is very similar to Epcot in a lot of ways. Obviously very different over-arching theme, but Epcot is effectively a hub and spoke park (as opposed to hub and outer loop seen in MK, HWS, and AK or IOA’s loop).
In Epcot, you have the hub, and then you can go into pavilions. Going into The Land is entering one of those spokes. If you imagine World Showcase as a hub, you’re not really going into the countries by staying on World Showcase Lagoon, you’re mainly walking past them getting to your next destination (like a hub). The countries themselves are like the lands in Epic, as they’re a spoke (without a portal). Obviously, Epic and Epcot have different scales, but Epic has a long deep corridor that ventures off into interesting areas. Epcot has a long deep corridor that splits around a lake that ventures off into interesting areas.
Distinctly, World Showcase is very different from IoA, because you’re actually going into the lands at IoA as you go around the lake, whereas Epcot, you’re going past the lands (as you will in Epic). So the designs, at the fundamental special levels are very similar.
It’s also worth noting that the other Universal parks mostly lack a chill, relaxing area. They’re often very loud, so the hub will provide a very nice reprieve from the noise and add immense value.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
I didn't say it doesn't attack at all -- but I don't think it will have any major effect on Disney.
I'd be absolutely shocked if it pulled any significant number of people away from Disney to Universal. The people that go to both parks on one trip could add day or two to Universal at Disney's expense, but that's a relatively small number of guests anyways.
There aren't going to be tens of thousands of people cancelling a trip to Disney to go to Universal instead; the main effect will be people who already go to Universal adding days.
EDIT: And I'm not saying this as a knock on the park -- I think it will be great, especially for people that already like Universal's offerings. I just don't see it as any kind of "Disney slayer".
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
I just think that's a relatively small percentage of guests. There aren't that many people who go to Orlando and do both Universal and Disney -- it may be a large percentage of people on forums like this one, but not among average visitors. Most people (at least among American/Canadian visitors; people coming from Europe etc. may be a bit different) are going to one or the other.
I actually don't know anyone who has done both on one trip, although obviously some people do. Most families I know have done Disney and not Universal, but the ones who have done Universal have done it as a separate, shorter trip -- mainly for Harry Potter.
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I wouldn't say that. Just nothing on this scale. it is more of they have to start now in order to complete the timeline and rightfully so, it gets the most attention. It begins with this full general hype reveal confirming the lands.
The Parade, night show and Dreamworks area of studios will be marketing soon. They also don't want to clash too much with all the announcements and reveals for HHN that will be here before you know it.
duncedoof
Well-Known Member
I am okay with Universal doing IP lands and rides. They're the "slop" theme park kings, the Happy Meal and GMO apple slices chefs. Kitsch perfection, turn your brain off. Anyone who hadn't identified them as such has lost the plot. Now they're going to do it at the biggest and most maximalist they have yet, and I'm all for that.
Disney? I expect so much more from them. Originality, immersion, a soul. They are better than Universal, they absolutely can hand better offerings. Are they? No. They're choking because the Wizarding World made them pivot to copying the Universal model. You are Disney. Not Universal. Maybe they lost the plot, also...
Disney? I expect so much more from them. Originality, immersion, a soul. They are better than Universal, they absolutely can hand better offerings. Are they? No. They're choking because the Wizarding World made them pivot to copying the Universal model. You are Disney. Not Universal. Maybe they lost the plot, also...
Andrew25
Well-Known Member
I have no data, but whenever I talk to people at the parks, most are visiting Universal for 1-day with a park hopper, maybe 2 in addition to WDW. So they're visiting both resorts, but maybe not giving Universal their full attention. 2025 is going to be a game-changer.
sonoma15
Well-Known Member
is this what happens when you do too much pixie dust
SplashJacket
Well-Known Member
I agree. For everyone arguing for infinite expansion (as I do) has to expect market expansion — you don’t build parks to have them be empty.
I believe the market has a lot of untapped potential, and Epic is tapping into that.
That said, there will be Disney fans who spend their dollars at Universal instead, but Epic will also bring new guests and returning guests back faster that may also tack on trips to Disney.
I don’t really see the bottom lines of Disney suffering too much. USF may have justified issues after Epic opens, but overall, I primarily expect market expansion. I would expect the biggest problems post-Epic to be with Hollywood Studios, which definitely makes sense why they would (and should) expedite plans.
dizneycrazy09
Well-Known Member
As a travel agent that regularly books family trips, I have to say that the evidence points to the opposite; most families that have booked in the last two years always choose a day or two in Universal as a part of their Disney trip.
From my experience, this park will pull people from WDW. Maybe it won’t be the MK guests, but families that have been to HS or DAK or EPCOT before, will opt to sacrifice one of those park days to visit the shiny new toy in Orlando.
I think Disney execs believe that Epic will compliment their offerings in the area, and will (at least in the short term) drive even more people to WDW even if for truncated stays. In the long term, if Uni keeps building with the pace and quality that they have been, WDW could legitimately see a worthy competitor emerge. Disney doesn’t need to do anything immediately, but they need to start acting on that 10 year, multi-billion dollar plan soon.
Andrew25
Well-Known Member
What's your reasoning behind DHS being the biggest issue for WDW? Not saying DHS doesn't need expansions or maintenance fixes... but it's the 2nd most popular park at the resort.
DAK is the one that will need help.
BrianLo
Well-Known Member
For the love of all that is holy… another theme park does NOT need another New York or Hollywood section. USO only or never.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
The last time WDW opened this number of attractions at the same time was 1982.
Both DHS and DAK were highly criticized for their lack of attractions when they first opened.
Let’s be real - the last time Orlando saw this kind of theme park expansion was when Islands of Adventure opened in 1999.
Exactly. Universal was the most recent and Universal will have the latest.
SplashJacket
Well-Known Member
Anecdotally, a lot of the people who I know who don’t really care about theme parks (and aren’t families) will visit IoA or get a Universal park hopper for a day or two, and add on a day at Hollywood Studios because it’s the hip, cool park.
If there’s a Venn diagram of type of guest visiting, I would expect the biggest overlap of Disney parks and Universal to be Hollywood Studios.
Universal is seen as “cool” and Hollywood is seen as “cool.”
People disregard Animal Kingdom already as a zoo. The Pandora hype train has died off (Epic will open almost a decade after Pandora). So I don’t have the data, but anecdotally, the people who visit Animal Kingdom are more loyal to the brand/doing a whole Disney trip. Once again, I don’t have the data, but I would be surprised if Animal Kingdom didn’t attract the least amount of 1-off 1-day guests (the kind that visit Universal the most).
Epic will also try to target the Epcot audience, but there’s too much they need to change in terms of food quality and night-entertainment for me to see that as a real threat until it comes to fruition (they also can’t replicate the drinking-around-the-world printing press either).
DHS also being the second highest also means it has the most room to fall.
DAK already needs help (and that will continue until it actually gets that help), but I don’t think Epic will necessarily worsen that need dramatically, whereas DHS (which also needs help) will likely have its needs worsened by Epic.
I’m not fully certain, but that would be my guess, though I could be convinced otherwise.
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UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
I suppose you could argue that DHS is the Disney park closest to Universal's offerings, so if that's what you're looking for you might prefer going to the new Epic Universe over going back to DHS to see things you've already seen -- whereas the people who love parks like DAK and EPCOT are probably less enthused about Epic Universe's offerings (especially attraction lineup) in general.
I still think the majority (and probably vast majority) of Disney and Universal guests are only going to one resort or the other on a trip, though.