Universal Creative VP Taking Over WDI Development

[phenom1307]

I'm all for Disney World getting more thrill rides; but it's been proven time and time again that those are not the type of rides that "get more people to the parks."

are you serious?!?! i know plenty of people that like disney but like places like universal and cedar point more because of their roller coasters....so i'm just saying that more people will come if disney gets a couple of rides like that

 

[ImaYoyo]

are you serious?!?! i know plenty of people that like disney but like places like universal and cedar point more because of their roller coasters....so i'm just saying that more people will come if disney gets a couple of rides like that

No, a different type of people, which in turn, equals less people. What the OP is probably refering to is that young adults and teens are the primary drivers for places like Cedar Point, and to some extent, though not as much as CP, Universal. And teens and young adults, even though a larger percentage of they're income is discressionary income, their income is not as high as the typical family vacationers, which means less revenue is spent in the parks by that segment.

If it were coasters and thrill rides that drove more revenue, places like Six Flags would be able to overcome their shortcomings in other areas like friendliness and cleanliness. But the fact of the matter is that coasters and thrill rides aren't the drivers that bring people with $$$ to spend year after year.

Disney's formula is successful, which is why after 36 years, there are new attendance records being made.

 

[DisneyMusician2]

This is really interersting....I wonder what brought about the defection, and what this might mean for the R+D section.

 

[sknydave]

Just because he's at Disney now it doesn't mean every single thing they put out has to be a giant thrill ride...

 

[DisneyYorkian74]

are you serious?!?! i know plenty of people that like disney but like places like universal and cedar point more because of their roller coasters....so i'm just saying that more people will come if disney gets a couple of rides like that

All you have to do is look at both annual attendance Cedar Point's and IOA's declining attendance to see that "Bad A$$" roller coasters are not what the general public want when they visit a theme park.

The world's most popular theme parks continue to be the Magic Kingdom style parks and they are definitely not known for their thrills.

Just look at Epcot, Florida's 2nd most visited theme park since it opened and America's 3rd most visited theme park, and it doesn't and hasn't had a single coaster since it opened 25 years ago.

If Disney wants thrills, they can go the way of ToT or Expedition Everest (those are the type of thrills the general public appreciate), not like the coasters you see at IOA or Cedar Point.

 

[yodathefrog]

All you have to do is look at both annual attendance Cedar Point's and IOA's declining attendance to see that "Bad A$$" roller coasters are not what the general public want when they visit a theme park.

The world's most popular theme parks continue to be the Magic Kingdom style parks and they are definitely not known for their thrills.

Cedar Point is an Amusement Park, not a Theme Park. They aren't even trying to compete with the Universals and Disneys of the world.

 

[DisneyYorkian74]

Not exactly true. E:E opening at AK resulted in it passing MGM in attendance as well as some capacity closures. So the build it and they will come theory does work for thrill rides.

A coaster like Expedition Everest and the coasters you'll find at IOA are completely different.

It's the difference between telling a story and incorporating a lot of detailed theming, compared with just metal and steel, fast speed, and a lot of loops.

There's a big difference between a "Bad A$$" thrill ride and a Disney thrill ride.

Disney won't be making any money if they decided to throw out their extremely successful "Disney thrill ride" formula in favor of just building a bunch of "Bad A$$" ones.

 

[pheneix]

All you have to do is look at both annual attendance Cedar Point's and IOA's declining attendance to see that "Bad A$$" roller coasters are not what the general public want when they visit a theme park.

Yes, because Cedar Point being a seasonal park is definitely a fair comparison to the Magic Kingdom.

Take a look at Cedar Point's summer attendance sometime. It dwarfs the Magic Kingdom. Six Flags Great America also posts Magic Kingdom level attendance during the summer season. Hell for that matter Universal Studio's summer business exceeded that of Animal Kingdom and MGM this year (they have had serious problems retaining an audience in the off season after 9/11, thats why their annual attendance is in the gutter).

Saying that the "general public does not like roller coasters" is really kind of an ignorant and completely disregards that there are a lot of amusement parks that are very successful catering specifically to that market.

 

[tirian]

When they opened, yes. And even the old timer of WDW itself had standbys of 70 minutes regularly last week.

Thank you for catching that. :wave:

 

[DisneyYorkian74]

Cedar Point is an Amusement Park, not a Theme Park. They aren't even trying to compete with the Universals and Disneys of the world.

I'm not the one who brought Cedar Point up...

 

[PhilharMagician]

If you were to ride Dudley & Splash blind folded then Dudley would win, but open your eyes and splash is by far superior. Splash was the largest and fastest when it was build in the 80's. A lot has happened since then, but splash will always have better show!

 

[ImaYoyo]

Yes, because Cedar Point being a seasonal park is definitely a fair comparison to the Magic Kingdom.

Take a look at Cedar Point's summer attendance sometime. It dwarfs the Magic Kingdom. Six Flags Great America also posts Magic Kingdom level attendance during the summer season.

Saying that the "general public does not like roller coasters" is really kind of an ignorant and completely disregards that there are a lot of amusement parks that are very successful catering specifically to that market.

Actually it doesn't. Those parks average anywhere between 20,000 and 35,000 during the summer, where as MK averages between 30,000 and 45,000 on non-holidays. Not to mention, MKs attendance figures are not released to anyone outside of the company. Their annual attendance is estimated by 3rd party companies. But the only way to know what the average daily attendance is if you get a page or email to your pager/blackberry.

 

[nibblesandbits]

A coaster like Expedition Everest and the coasters you'll find at IOA are completely different.

It's the difference between telling a story and incorporating a lot of detailed theming, compared with just metal and steel, fast speed, and a lot of loops.

There's a big difference between a "Bad A$$" thrill ride and a Disney thrill ride.

Disney won't be making any money if they decided to throw out their extremely successful "Disney thrill ride" formula in favor of just building a bunch of "Bad A$$" ones.

I think the two can work cohesively. RNRC is one of my favorites...now it's definitely bad @$$ (at least to me) but it also has the Disney story to it.

Now, do I think that Disney is going to chuck everything for Six Flags style rides...no, but I do believe that this younger generation (my generation-those who are 20 something right now and younger) who grew up on Six Flags type rides, would enjoy having some good thrills (like M:S, TT, E:E, etc) mixed in with the classic Disney style rides (like HM, Splash, POTC, SSE, etc). It's just all about a good mixture.

 

[ImaYoyo]

I'm not the one who brought Cedar Point up...

I did. But I wasn't talking about them in terms of attendance but rather incrimental operating revenue. Cedar Point is open from May to October, that's 6 months. I would NEVER expect it to compete with any Disney or Universal park overall. But it's operating revenues are not that great for the 6 months it is open.

 

[ImaYoyo]

I think the two can work cohesively. RNRC is one of my favorites...now it's definitely bad @$$ (at least to me) but it also has the Disney story to it.

Now, do I think that Disney is going to chuck everything for Six Flags style rides...no, but I do believe that this younger generation (my generation-those who are 20 something right now and younger) who grew up on Six Flags type rides, would enjoy having some good thrills (like M:S, TT, E:E, etc) mixed in with the classic Disney style rides (like HM, Splash, POTC, SSE, etc). It's just all about a good mixture.

Yep. Also important to know that your views change when you've got a 3 year old and a 5 year old screaming to see Cinderella.

 

[DisneyYorkian74]

Take a look at Cedar Point's summer attendance sometime. It dwarfs the Magic Kingdom. Six Flags Great America also posts Magic Kingdom level attendance during the summer season.

Saying that the "general public does not like roller coasters" is really kind of an ignorant and completely disregards that there are a lot of amusement parks that are very successful catering specifically to that market.

You're right, I don't have the time all day to look up facts on Cedar Point's summer attendance nor do I really care.

But I do know what parks make the top visited theme parks list each year and Cedar Point is not in the top 10. (There's no need to get all defensive because I'm not saying that the park is not successful because it doesn't make the top 10)

The Six Flags' parks continue to lose lots and lots of money each year and the company as a whole has been going bankrupt for years.

I really don't think Disney would want to do that.

Ultimately Disney's way of making theme parks has proven to be the most successful while the "cheap thrills" you'll find at any amusement park across America has proven to be much less profitable and successful.

Disney would not be making any more money if they decided to make a "thrills only park" or start to build a bunch of coasters you'll find at a park like Cedar Point.

 

[pheneix]

Actually it doesn't. Those parks average anywhere between 20,000 and 35,000 during the summer, where as MK averages between 30,000 and 45,000 on non-holidays.

I don't have any Cedar Point data on hand for this summer, but Great America averaged around 45,000 guests a day over the summer season. They have some prime market share being the only major amusement park in the Chicago area, and they use it well.

 

[ImaYoyo]

I don't have any Cedar Point data on hand for this summer, but Great America averaged around 45,000 guests a day over the summer season. They have some prime market share being the only major amusement park in the Chicago area, and they use it well.

I don't have any data on that park, so that very well could be. However, you're saying they average 45k over the summer ( 4 month season from May to August), so that would put their attendance at over 5 million for the summer, which can't be correct. I'm thinking they may 'peak' at 45k during the summer, but certainly not 'average' 45k.

 

[pheneix]

But I do know what parks make the top visited theme parks list each year and Cedar Point is not in the top 10. (There's no need to get all defensive because I'm not saying that the park is not successful because it doesn't make the top 10)

The Six Flags' parks continue to lose lots and lots of money each year and the company as a whole has been going bankrupt for years.

Cedar Point is a seasonal park. Among the seasonals its the highest attended park in North America next to Canada's Wonderland. If Disney built in this region they would get about the same attendance.

Six Flags' problems extend far beyond roller coasters. The new management team has been rectifying a lot of these problems, but that company just needs to be broken up and dissolved.

 

[pheneix]

I don't have any data on that park, so that very well could be. However, you're saying they average 45k over the summer ( 4 month season from May to August), so that would put their attendance at over 5 million for the summer, which can't be correct. I'm thinking they may 'peak' at 45k during the summer, but certainly not 'average' 45k.

They only run daily operations from May 16 - August 29. Weekends only from the start of May till the end of October.