TSA Pre-Check like system may be coming for Passholders

[lazyboy97o]

Sure, in the sense that you can't stop all threats that's true. I don't disagree with that at all. But what I'm worried about is some guy walking into WDW like the Pulse shooter who had enough firepower to kill multitudes of people, or the jackhole who brought all those guns into the Mandalay Bay and carried out a massive attack on the crowd below. Those types of attacks would be prevented by screening everyone through a metal detector. Yes, they could still bring stuff up to the security checkpoint, but that is also where they already have a ton of security personnel in place who should be able to quickly put an active shooter down.

Those types of attacks would not be prevented by screenings that, based on TSA, has something like a 10% success rate. Even having people present won’t stop a direct assault (see LAX) and Vegas was an attack from outside the secure perimeter.

 

[bclane]

Those types of attacks would not be prevented by screenings that, based on TSA, has something like a 10% success rate. Even having people present won’t stop a direct assault (see LAX) and Vegas was an attack from outside the secure perimeter.

You might be able to sneak a hand gun through a metal detector but that's not what I'm talking about. You are not going to get multiple assault rifles through a metal detector. Yes, the Vegas attack was outside the secure perimeter which is why I would like the secure perimeter to include the WDW resorts.

 

[Cousin Huet]

I wish Disney would stop with the nonsense regarding security. Random checks only and now this pre-check idea is just crazy in today’s world imo. Also imo, every single person should have to go through the metal detectors before entering the parks AND all of the resorts no matter how many times they have proven themselves to be trustworthy in the past. I don’t care that it interrupts my visit or anyone else’s. I’d rather be inconvenienced and safe than for some idiot to get in and do who knows what. They really need to rethink the entire security barrier and invest however much money they need to limit the risk as much as possible. Right now it does not feel like they are doing anywhere near enough. I even think they should have bomb sniffing dogs/devices that check every car/van/bus that comes into guest parking areas...but I know that will probably never happen.

This is the dream of those that perform these attacks. The front gates of Disney have become a soft target. This trust people put in that these security measures do anything positive is dillusion. I use to never worry about it but with all this advertised and hyped up by Disney to prove how secure and safe they are it now makes me uneasy to be there at open. We usually arrive an hour later now because of this. M

 

[lazyboy97o]

You might be able to sneak a hand gun through a metal detector but that's not what I'm talking about. You are not going to get multiple assault rifles through a metal detector. Yes, the Vegas attack was outside the secure perimeter which is why I would like the secure perimeter to include the WDW resorts.

You just shoot the security guards and keep walking as was done at LAX.

 

[Cousin Huet]

Sure, in the sense that you can't stop all threats that's true. I don't disagree with that at all. But what I'm worried about is some guy walking into WDW like the Pulse shooter who had enough firepower to kill multitudes of people, or the jackhole who brought all those guns into the Mandalay Bay and carried out a massive attack on the crowd below. Those types of attacks would be prevented by screening everyone through a metal detector. Yes, they could still bring stuff up to the security checkpoint, but that is also where they already have a ton of security personnel in place who should be able to quickly put an active shooter down.

No they would not be prevented because they will do it at open or after the fireworks and mass exodus and they now know that there are no armed guests to deal with either. It’s very easy to get up near the entrance if those are your intentions and it’s scary that people don’t understand that. We will be avoiding these areas at those times and that started for us back in June and did the same in October.

 

[Cousin Huet]

Sure, in the sense that you can't stop all threats that's true. I don't disagree with that at all. But what I'm worried about is some guy walking into WDW like the Pulse shooter who had enough firepower to kill multitudes of people, or the jackhole who brought all those guns into the Mandalay Bay and carried out a massive attack on the crowd below. Those types of attacks would be prevented by screening everyone through a metal detector. Yes, they could still bring stuff up to the security checkpoint, but that is also where they already have a ton of security personnel in place who should be able to quickly put an active shooter down.

Also, those security personnel will not save are not equipped to handle that and I have doubts that any cops on hand would be much help due to the fear of being the bad guys themselves that they all have nowadays.

 

[bclane]

OK, you guys win. Disney should just fire all their security guards and just hope for the best as clearly there is absolutely no point in trying to keep the bad guys out. Carry on.

 

[EricsBiscuit]

I think someone once said something like a people who surrender some freedom for temporary security deserve neither security or freedom. Not sure if that applies here but I'll throw it in anyways.

 

[bclane]

I think someone once said something like a people who surrender some freedom for temporary security deserve neither security or freedom. Not sure if that applies here but I'll throw it in anyways.

It definitely applies here! When Ben Franklin penned that for the Pennsylvania General Assembly he was actually writing it in support of spending more on defense (security), and not less. The quote is often misused though and the context of the statement ignored.

Edit: Here is an NPR commentary on the quote in case anyone is interested:

http://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/39024...safety-quote-lost-its-context-in-21st-century

 

[matt9112]

No doubt. But I do think they could screen every person that goes into the parks (like Uni does) and resorts (which would be difficult but could happen). My issue is that Disney is putting on an expensive show with their current security policies vs actually making the parks safe. However, this hasn't stopped me from going, nor will it. I admit my wish that they would check all the cars is a pipe dream and, for the record, I said already that I knew it woudn't ever happen.

agree ditch it all...its all useless =) armed security and dogs and other subtle things can be had without turning the place into the airport.
the uni check point seems to be much more well run in general though and there not digging through bags like some Disney folks do because they have actual bag scanners. its also nice that its one scan for the entire site.

 

[AEfx]

So because I think everyone should go through a metal detector like they do at the other big parks in Orlando, you equate that to me wanting to turn it into a police state??? Oooooookaaaaay...

You also said "metal detectors in all the parks AND all the resorts" and then that "they should have bomb sniffing dogs/devices that check every car/van/bus that comes into guest parking areas".

That's pretty radical and pretty much a police state.

Look, I think the parks are safe for the everyday stuff and I enjoy them all the time. I just also think WDW is a potential target for jackasses like the guys that shot up Pulse and Vegas. That is the kind of thing I don’t think they are ready for and obviously they are taking steps to expand their security budget so apparently they realize it too. I would simply like to see them do more and do things smarter than random checks...and giving a security fastpass to APers just seems like a dumb idea to me. I admit that my wish that they would also figure out a way to prevent someone from driving up to one of the resorts with a car bomb and blowing it up is not realistic.

In reading your recent posts I've come to realize that your responses in general seem based almost entirely on emotion and have very little logic to back them up. Everything seems to be about your "feelings".

You complain about security theater, yet you say you would "like to see them do more" - you don't see the inherent contradiction there? Again, you have no clue what kinds of security is actually at Disney, but you want them to put on a bigger show for you.

I'll ask again: what what evidence do you have to provide regarding the lack of safety of the parks? What crime statistics do you have that the rest of us don't that paint them as "unsafe"? What is "safe for everyday stuff?"

Basically, you are paranoid about a terrorist attack. Let's just lay that out there. The truth is, no amount of the stuff you are talking about would stop one. As horrible as one would be, the chances are so statistically small that you have a billion times greater chance of dying in an accident on the way to WDW than ever being a victim of a terrorist attack there. If you are so worried, the only logical thing to do is to stay home.

 

[bclane]

You also said "metal detectors in all the parks AND all the resorts" and then that "they should have bomb sniffing dogs/devices that check every car/van/bus that comes into guest parking areas".

That's pretty radical and pretty much a police state.



In reading your recent posts I've come to realize that your responses in general seem based almost entirely on emotion and have very little logic to back them up. Everything seems to be about your "feelings".

You complain about security theater, yet you say you would "like to see them do more" - you don't see the inherent contradiction there? Again, you have no clue what kinds of security is actually at Disney, but you want them to put on a bigger show for you.

I'll ask again: what what evidence do you have to provide regarding the lack of safety of the parks? What crime statistics do you have that the rest of us don't that paint them as "unsafe"? What is "safe for everyday stuff?"

Basically, you are paranoid about a terrorist attack. Let's just lay that out there. The truth is, no amount of the stuff you are talking about would stop one. As horrible as one would be, the chances are so statistically small that you have a billion times greater chance of dying in an accident on the way to WDW than ever being a victim of a terrorist attack there. If you are so worried, the only logical thing to do is to stay home.

Ok, agree to disagree. I honestly don't feel strong enough about any of this to argue it any further. See, this way you can feel like you beat me and if that brightens your day then I feel I've at least accomplished something today. So in that sense, it's a win for both of us!

 

[Zac Skellington]

You also said "metal detectors in all the parks AND all the resorts" and then that "they should have bomb sniffing dogs/devices that check every car/van/bus that comes into guest parking areas".

That's pretty radical and pretty much a police state.



In reading your recent posts I've come to realize that your responses in general seem based almost entirely on emotion and have very little logic to back them up. Everything seems to be about your "feelings".

You complain about security theater, yet you say you would "like to see them do more" - you don't see the inherent contradiction there? Again, you have no clue what kinds of security is actually at Disney, but you want them to put on a bigger show for you.

I'll ask again: what what evidence do you have to provide regarding the lack of safety of the parks? What crime statistics do you have that the rest of us don't that paint them as "unsafe"? What is "safe for everyday stuff?"

Basically, you are paranoid about a terrorist attack. Let's just lay that out there. The truth is, no amount of the stuff you are talking about would stop one. As horrible as one would be, the chances are so statistically small that you have a billion times greater chance of dying in an accident on the way to WDW than ever being a victim of a terrorist attack there. If you are so worried, the only logical thing to do is to stay home.

I’m not choosing sides to the argument, but I do have a question for you: Wouldn’t a bomb-sniffing dog (or electronic detectors of some kind) greatly reduce the chance of someone driving a van packed with explosives into the underground parking garage at Kidani Village?

 

[Bacon]

GUYS! Dang have we gone off the rails? Talk about DISNEYS approach not the issue as a whole.

 

[AEfx]

I’m not choosing sides to the argument, but I do have a question for you: Wouldn’t a bomb-sniffing dog (or electronic detectors of some kind) greatly reduce the chance of someone driving a van packed with explosives into the underground parking garage at Kidani Village?

That's...an oddly specific question.

Not really, to be honest. When something already has a nearly infinitesimal chance of happening, you can only reduce it so much more. And if someone really wanted to do what you propose? They'd just speed through the gate and do it.

That's what this is really all boils down to. I mean, wouldn't any risk be "greatly reduced" if everyone entering Disney property was fully stripped and had a cavity search? Our culture is just in such a place right now where we have people demanding more and more security theater that doesn't actually protect us.

It makes me think of what Kevin Costner says in "The Bodyguard" - if someone is willing to trade their life for yours, there isn't really anything you can do about it.

 

[AEfx]

GUYS! Dang have we gone off the rails? Talk about DISNEYS approach not the issue as a whole.

Well, most posts are about Disney I'm reading. Not sure what you are talking about. But naturally, people are going to talk about the "issue as a whole" because...WDW is not in a bubble, and we are talking about external threats to it.

 

[Zac Skellington]

That's...an oddly specific question.

Not really, to be honest. When something already has a nearly infinitesimal chance of happening, you can only reduce it so much more. And if someone really wanted to do what you propose? They'd just speed through the gate and do it.

That's what this is really all boils down to. I mean, wouldn't any risk be "greatly reduced" if everyone entering Disney property was fully stripped and had a cavity search? Our culture is just in such a place right now where we have people demanding more and more security theater that doesn't actually protect us.

It makes me think of what Kevin Costner says in "The Bodyguard" - if someone is willing to trade their life for yours, there isn't really anything you can do about it.

It’s a specific question because I think it’s the only resort hotel with a parking garage directly below guest rooms.
The gates aren’t even close to AK resort, pop up barricades, (designed to stop a civilian vehicle), triggered from the guard shack could do the job. Not sure how these measures would be intrusive to guests, but I bet you don’t see anymore hotels with parking like at AKV.

 

[AEfx]

It’s a specific question because I think it’s the only resort hotel with a parking garage directly below guest rooms.
The gates aren’t even close to AK resort, pop up barricades, (designed to stop a civilian vehicle), triggered from the guard shack could do the job. Not sure how these measures would be intrusive to guests, but I bet you don’t see anymore hotels with parking like at AKV.

Okay? And? What leads you to believe there is even the most remote possibility that it is a specific target? Some random WDW resort hotel is not where someone trying to make a statement is going to make it.

In any case, you'd be very mistaken to say that stopping and using dogs and/or electronic devices to scan each and every vehicle entering AK property isn't intrusive to guests. Do you know how many vehicles come in and out of there on a daily basis?

 

[lazyboy97o]

It’s a specific question because I think it’s the only resort hotel with a parking garage directly below guest rooms.
The gates aren’t even close to AK resort, pop up barricades, (designed to stop a civilian vehicle), triggered from the guard shack could do the job. Not sure how these measures would be intrusive to guests, but I bet you don’t see anymore hotels with parking like at AKV.

While it may be unique to Walt Disney World, it is condition that is common in the world at large.

In order to cause the sort of damage you fear, the blast would need to induce a catastrophic structural failure. That means a bigger bomb. That means more patience, more technical precision and more time, time to be found out and stopped by investigative agencies. While all of this heightened concern with security is due to a coordinated attack, what we see more often is less coordinated.

Parking garages are not a great target because they tend to be rather empty. They are not a place where people congregate. The openness of the parks and resorts is part of what can make them less desirable targets. What the shootings in Orlando and Vegas demonstrate is the danger of confining people together. Designs that are more open, that allow for more freedom of movement will make a place less desirable to attack because the design reduces your targets.

 

[Scuttle]

Okay? And? What leads you to believe there is even the most remote possibility that it is a specific target? Some random WDW resort hotel is not where someone trying to make a statement is going to make it.

In any case, you'd be very mistaken to say that stopping and using dogs and/or electronic devices to scan each and every vehicle entering AK property isn't intrusive to guests. Do you know how many vehicles come in and out of there on a daily basis?

Personally, if I saw a bomb sniffing dog and electronic devices and mirrors to look under the car I'm reversing and heading home.