Trouble in paradise officially?

[dennis-in-ct]

Disney long ago has removed itself from a large number of family budgets and it's only getting worse. My family started our Disney parks journey 20 years ago and we were hooked from our very first trip and came avid fans and DVC members. A couple years ago with all the changes and steep increases, we reluctantly sold the DVC and scaled back our trips. This upcoming 50th anniversary trip that I promised the family we would take in October, was planned for well over two years in advance and making monthly payments. I'm exhausted at the cost, cutbacks, etc, and it has killed so much of the fun and joy I used to feel when planning and going on a WDW trip. I enjoy this forum and others, seeing construction progress being made and talking about the parks, but I've reach the point myself that it's just too expensive for what you get. I feel bad for the young families just starting out and getting hooked like we were in going to the parks and not being able to swing it. In all honesty, I shouldn't have went as much as I did and ignoring all the warning signs over the years. When I think about the money I spent in DVC and AP's for the family over the years, I just wince. Those memories weren't cheap.

Completely agree.

I saved a graph that shows the cost of Disney as compared to the average household income.

 

[jt04]

Completely agree.

I saved a graph that shows the cost of Disney as compared to the average household income.

Sea World, Busch Gardens, Legoland, KSC and many others are still quite affordable if people do their research.

Not everyone who goes to Vegas stays at the Bellagio.

 

[MurphyJoe]

Sea World, Busch Gardens, Legoland, KSC and many others are still quite affordable if people do their research.

Not everyone who goes to Vegas stays at the Bellagio.

But everywhere in Vegas has a blackjack table, but there's only one place with Splash Mountain in O-town. Even if everyone was charging the same admission price, Disney isn't Universal which isn't Sea World etc. If you want what one of them offers, then the other options aren't a substitute.

 

[jt04]

But everywhere in Vegas has a blackjack table, but there's only one place with Splash Mountain in O-town. Even if everyone was charging the same admission price, Disney isn't Universal which isn't Sea World etc. If you want what one of them offers, then the other options aren't a substitute.

I've heard some people split their time up and visit the mouse one or two days of their vacation. Many multi-day options don't have an expiration and can be used on future trips. The 3D chess aspects of planning this way are part of the fun.

Some enterprising folks should probably consider building such packages and marketing them on a website. Just a thought.

 

[Tomi-Rocket]

I have felt and believed and said for years now that Disney is wanting to be a luxury vacation destination. They are not interested in families that have to save or budget for their trips, they want the people who have plenty of money to spend freely.

 

[Chomama]

I have felt and believed and said for years now that Disney is wanting to be a luxury vacation destination. They are not interested in families that have to save or budget for their trips, they want the people who have plenty of money to spend freely.

I am sure they have a lot of data to look at, but it just seems like there aren’t enough of those people to fill wdw daily.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Granted polling a few people is not the same as polling everyone and we've all see the crowds and the people who buy into everything.

People who make under $75,000 per year are most eager to visit Disney, but it's almost unaffordable for them

Though Disney vacations become increasingly expensive each year, diehard fans are still eager to visit the company's theme parks.

www.insider.com

Is it possible that folks making under $75K are most eager to to go on a Disney vacation because they have never been?

Is it possible that folks making over $150K are less interested because they have already done it?

As for the cost VS value, that’s just a fact. A Disney vacation just keeps getting more costly with less in return. It’s the Disney way of business.

 

[Jedijax719]

Is it possible that folks making under $75K are most eager to to go on a Disney vacation because they have never been?

Is it possible that folks making over $150K are less interested because they have already done it?

As for the cost VS value, that’s just a fact. A Disney vacation just keeps getting more costly with less in return. It’s the Disney way of business

Those are great points.

Could also be that more families with less than $75K have small children than those over $150K.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Is it possible that folks making under $75K are most eager to to go on a Disney vacation because they have never been?

Is it possible that folks making over $150K are less interested because they have already done it?

As for the cost VS value, that’s just a fact. A Disney vacation just keeps getting more costly with less in return. It’s the Disney way of business.

For families making less than $75k a year, going to WDW is seen as a aspirational goal. Taking your children on the most quintessential American vacation is seen as an important rite of passage.

For people making over $150K a year, WDW is seen as a tourist trap where the great unwashed take their brats. It's not a "real" place like Italy, Aruba or New Zealand.

What Disney is searching for are unicorns. People with endless amounts of money (or at least CC limits) who also don't have any interest in leaving the USA and think Disney's pretend luxury is good enough or the real thing. Do they exist? Yes, but there's a reason why there are still more Value and Moderate hotel inventory on site than Deluxe.

 

[EeyoreFan#24]

Those are great points.

Could also be that more families with less than $75K have small children than those over $150K.

I’ve never understood why surveys and discussions concentrate on gross/net income. People with less income can very well be experiencing less expenditures at a lower cost translating to saving at a higher rate than higher income people. That is the number that matters in most situations. It just depends on what they want to do with that “excess” savings.

 

[sandieb1]

Disney long ago has removed itself from a large number of family budgets and it's only getting worse. My family started our Disney parks journey 20 years ago and we were hooked from our very first trip and came avid fans and DVC members. A couple years ago with all the changes and steep increases, we reluctantly sold the DVC and scaled back our trips. This upcoming 50th anniversary trip that I promised the family we would take in October, was planned for well over two years in advance and making monthly payments. I'm exhausted at the cost, cutbacks, etc, and it has killed so much of the fun and joy I used to feel when planning and going on a WDW trip. I enjoy this forum and others, seeing construction progress being made and talking about the parks, but I've reach the point myself that it's just too expensive for what you get. I feel bad for the young families just starting out and getting hooked like we were in going to the parks and not being able to swing it. In all honesty, I shouldn't have went as much as I did and ignoring all the warning signs over the years. When I think about the money I spent in DVC and AP's for the family over the years, I just wince. Those memories weren't cheap.

Ditto to everything you said. We sold our 650 Beach Club and Hilton Head points when the dues = a week in Europe. Not to mention the other soaring costs. We still go to WDW but stay in our RV in Ft Wilderness (which we love). No regrets. Plus we have brought our grandkids and travel to National Parks and beaches around the country camping in the travel trailer. Double win!

 

[jt04]

For families making less than $75k a year, going to WDW is seen as a aspirational goal. Taking your children on the most quintessential American vacation is seen as an important rite of passage.

For people making over $150K a year, WDW is seen as a tourist trap where the great unwashed take their brats. It's not a "real" place like Italy, Aruba or New Zealand.

What Disney is searching for are unicorns. People with endless amounts of money (or at least CC limits) who also don't have any interest in leaving the USA and think Disney's pretend luxury is good enough or the real thing. Do they exist? Yes, but there's a reason why there are still more Value and Moderate hotel inventory on site than Deluxe.

People shouldn't view WDW as a "rite of passage" IMO. Trips to the shore or National Parks fit that description much better. WDW is a mostly luxury vacation. Although it can be done on a budget.

For instance. Buy 5 or 6 day passes with no expiration to save $$$. Put them in a lock box and pay them off. Make reservations at a value resort well in advance while they are running specials. 2 nights is sufficient if you are on a budget. Pay in advance.

Now plan the rest of the week around free activities and less expensive entertainment. Find value accomadations on I drive through Priceline or similar. Hotel pools, beaches and even places like Fun Spot have free admission. Larger parks offer 2 for 1 deals.

Driving is cheaper than flying.

Camping can save big money. Great experience for young families.

Fixing your own meals when possible the same.

Adapt.

Not rocket science here.

 

[MurphyJoe]

People shouldn't view WDW as a "rite of passage" IMO. Trips to the shore or National Parks fit that description much better. WDW is a mostly luxury vacation. Although it can be done on a budget.

For instance. Buy 5 or 6 day passes with no expiration to save $$$. Put them in a lock box and pay them off. Make reservations at a value resort well in advance while they are running specials. 2 nights is sufficient if you are on a budget. Pay in advance.

Now plan the rest of the week around free activities and less expensive entertainment. Find value accomadations on I drive through Priceline or similar. Hotel pools, beaches and even places like Fun Spot have free admission. Larger parks offer 2 for 1 deals.

Driving is cheaper than flying.

Camping can save big money. Great experience for young families.

Fixing your own meals when possible the same.

Adapt.

Not rocket science here.

Disney hasn't sold no-expiration tickets since 2013ish. Now the tickets expire as follows (from their FAQ).

Q. When can I use my theme park ticket?

A. Walt Disney World Resort theme park tickets are valid for admission beginning on the selected start date and must be used within the valid use period provided at the time of purchase. Here are the details:

• 1-day – The ticket expires on the selected start date.
• 2-day – The ticket expires 4 days after the selected start date.
• 3-day – The ticket expires 5 days after the selected start date.
• 4-day – The ticket expires 7 days after the selected start date.
• 5-day – The ticket expires 8 days after the selected start date.
• 6-day – The ticket expires 9 days after the selected start date.
• 7-day – The ticket expires 10 days after the selected start date.
• 8-day – The ticket expires 12 days after the selected start date.
• 9-day – The ticket expires 13 days after the selected start date.
• 10-day – The ticket expires 14 days after the selected start date.

 

[Disstevefan1]

For families making less than $75k a year, going to WDW is seen as a aspirational goal. Taking your children on the most quintessential American vacation is seen as an important rite of passage.

For people making over $150K a year, WDW is seen as a tourist trap where the great unwashed take their brats. It's not a "real" place like Italy, Aruba or New Zealand.

What Disney is searching for are unicorns. People with endless amounts of money (or at least CC limits) who also don't have any interest in leaving the USA and think Disney's pretend luxury is good enough or the real thing. Do they exist? Yes, but there's a reason why there are still more Value and Moderate hotel inventory on site than Deluxe.

The way the prices are going up at WDW, it does feel like they are indeed going after the unicorns. I guess time will tell if that’s the right way to go for the parks. We must keep in mind the theme parks are just a part of TWDC and currently not even one of the most important parts, see Disney +

 

[jt04]

Disney hasn't sold no-expiration tickets since 2013ish. Now the tickets expire as follows (from their FAQ).

Q. When can I use my theme park ticket?

A. Walt Disney World Resort theme park tickets are valid for admission beginning on the selected start date and must be used within the valid use period provided at the time of purchase. Here are the details:

• 1-day – The ticket expires on the selected start date.
• 2-day – The ticket expires 4 days after the selected start date.
• 3-day – The ticket expires 5 days after the selected start date.
• 4-day – The ticket expires 7 days after the selected start date.
• 5-day – The ticket expires 8 days after the selected start date.
• 6-day – The ticket expires 9 days after the selected start date.
• 7-day – The ticket expires 10 days after the selected start date.
• 8-day – The ticket expires 12 days after the selected start date.
• 9-day – The ticket expires 13 days after the selected start date.
• 10-day – The ticket expires 14 days after the selected start date.

I think there may be other options out there.

But going with your list. If I were budgeting I would get the three day without park hopper. Very important to save $$$ and valuable time.

Again, buy the tickets and store them away until paid for. Book two nights at a value resort while they are running a discount. This provides 3 days of park privileges including the all important extra magic hours. Research touring plans on the web and youtube.

Then follow something like what I listed earlier.

 

[Naplesgolfer]

For families making less than $75k a year, going to WDW is seen as a aspirational goal. Taking your children on the most quintessential American vacation is seen as an important rite of passage.

For people making over $150K a year, WDW is seen as a tourist trap where the great unwashed take their brats. It's not a "real" place like Italy, Aruba or New Zealand.

What Disney is searching for are unicorns. People with endless amounts of money (or at least CC limits) who also don't have any interest in leaving the USA and think Disney's pretend luxury is good enough or the real thing. Do they exist? Yes, but there's a reason why there are still more Value and Moderate hotel inventory on site than Deluxe.

Well quite a few of the DVC members I have met over the years were very well traveled and WDW was a subset of their vacations.

The way the prices are going up at WDW, it does feel like they are indeed going after the unicorns. I guess time will tell if that’s the right way to go for the parks. We must keep in mind the theme parks are just a part of TWDC and currently not even one of the most important parts, see Disney

 

[Dan Deesnee]

I’ve never understood why surveys and discussions concentrate on gross/net income. People with less income can very well be experiencing less expenditures at a lower cost translating to saving at a higher rate than higher income people. That is the number that matters in most situations. It just depends on what they want to do with that “excess” savings.

Because the data doesn't suggest that lower income people save money at the same % that higher income people do. On average the top 10% of earners save 10x the bottom 90%, roughly.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Well quite of the DVC members I have met over the years were very well traveled and WDW was a subset of their vacations.

DVC members make up a small % of total WDW visitors. MK alone has over 50K visitors a day on average (or did pre-COVID).

 

[SteveAZee]

I’ve never understood why surveys and discussions concentrate on gross/net income. People with less income can very well be experiencing less expenditures at a lower cost translating to saving at a higher rate than higher income people. That is the number that matters in most situations. It just depends on what they want to do with that “excess” savings.

Most people, I don't think, know their 'net worth' or 'discretionary spending' amounts, both of which would probably be more meaningful, so it's easier to ask what people DO know and extrapolate from that.

 

[jt04]

Disney hasn't sold no-expiration tickets since 2013ish. Now the tickets expire as follows (from their FAQ).

Q. When can I use my theme park ticket?

A. Walt Disney World Resort theme park tickets are valid for admission beginning on the selected start date and must be used within the valid use period provided at the time of purchase. Here are the details:

• 1-day – The ticket expires on the selected start date.
• 2-day – The ticket expires 4 days after the selected start date.
• 3-day – The ticket expires 5 days after the selected start date.
• 4-day – The ticket expires 7 days after the selected start date.
• 5-day – The ticket expires 8 days after the selected start date.
• 6-day – The ticket expires 9 days after the selected start date.
• 7-day – The ticket expires 10 days after the selected start date.
• 8-day – The ticket expires 12 days after the selected start date.
• 9-day – The ticket expires 13 days after the selected start date.
• 10-day – The ticket expires 14 days after the selected start date.

Did more research and I see they make you lock in dates now but well into the future. If I was on a budget I would book the 3 day ticket with 2 nights in a discounted value resort. If I couldn't project paying that off before arrival date, then I would conclude it is unaffordable.