Trouble in paradise officially?

[jt04]

Most people, I don't think, know their 'net worth' or 'discretionary spending' amounts, both of which would probably be more meaningful, so it's easier to ask what people DO know and extrapolate from that.

Unless it were a definite once in a lifetime experience, I can't imagine taking on debt for a vacation. But that's just my opinion.

 

[SteveAZee]

Unless it were a definite once in a lifetime experience, I can't imagine taking on debt for a vacation. But that's just my opinion.

You are in the minority.

 

[Mr. Moderate]

Sea World, Busch Gardens, Legoland, KSC and many others are still quite affordable if people do their research.

Not everyone who goes to Vegas stays at the Bellagio.

The problem with your analogy above is that the many different, beautiful resorts at Vegas all have gambling and can be had at decent prices. I joined M Life in 2018 for my first trip to LV and I get monthly email deals with incredible room rates, even though I gambled very little on my first trip. I booked a 4 night stay at The Mirage through a M Life deal and with taxes and fees for $327 dollars for a king suite with two bathrooms. That's a pretty good deal and I'm sure I'll get an upgrade as I did the last I was there. Where in DW can you get a deluxe room for 4 nights for a total of $327?

 

[rk03221]

Once the international crowd comes back prices won’t matter. Rich Brazilians and Europeans are enough for Disney to keep raising prices. I used to be a CM and you’d be surprised how many of them are rich foreigners

 

[networkpro]

Once the international crowd comes back prices won’t matter. Rich Brazilians and Europeans are enough for Disney to keep raising prices. I used to be a CM and you’d be surprised how many of them are rich foreigners

That's what lots of people on this thread are not taking into consideration, that there are sufficient people spending above that bar to fill the available capacity.

 

[Lilofan]

Once the international crowd comes back prices won’t matter. Rich Brazilians and Europeans are enough for Disney to keep raising prices. I used to be a CM and you’d be surprised how many of them are rich foreigners

Orlando shopping outlets specifically cater to those guests. They buy huge amount of merchandise/ some are resell professionals , to bring back to their countries especially Brazil.

 

[Nubs70]

WDW is.going to be slammed this summer. Between enhanced UI and mortgage/rent forbearance, many entry level income people are living in a situation in which household cash flow is almost double of when they were employed.

 

[rk03221]

That's what lots of people on this thread are not taking into consideration, that there are sufficient people spending above that bar to fill the available capacity.

Yeah, I’d just guesstimate that maybe half of WDW guests pre-covid were foreigners. Also, first time visitors make up a big percentage too.

Disney is never going to lower prices and honestly? A week at Disney isnt even that bad. 7 nights at Pop/6 day park tickets for my family is around $2400 depending on time of year. Add in flights and extra costs, we’re looking at around $4kish. That’s definitely not impossible and we are just a regular middle class family. Just my opinion

 

[GimpYancIent]

Once the international crowd comes back prices won’t matter. Rich Brazilians and Europeans are enough for Disney to keep raising prices. I used to be a CM and you’d be surprised how many of them are rich foreigners

Rich or run of the mill middle class folks that are taking on debt to accomplish such a trip.

 

[Ayla]

People shouldn't view WDW as a "rite of passage" IMO. Trips to the shore or National Parks fit that description much better. WDW is a mostly luxury vacation. Although it can be done on a budget.

For instance. Buy 5 or 6 day passes with no expiration to save $$$. Put them in a lock box and pay them off. Make reservations at a value resort well in advance while they are running specials. 2 nights is sufficient if you are on a budget. Pay in advance.

Now plan the rest of the week around free activities and less expensive entertainment. Find value accomadations on I drive through Priceline or similar. Hotel pools, beaches and even places like Fun Spot have free admission. Larger parks offer 2 for 1 deals.

Driving is cheaper than flying.

Camping can save big money. Great experience for young families.

Fixing your own meals when possible the same.

Adapt.

Not rocket science here.

When was the last time you bought WDW tickets? Non expiration tickets haven't been available for years.

 

[Ayla]

I think there may be other options out there.

But going with your list. If I were budgeting I would get the three day without park hopper. Very important to save $$$ and valuable time.

Again, buy the tickets and store them away until paid for. Book two nights at a value resort while they are running a discount. This provides 3 days of park privileges including the all important extra magic hours. Research touring plans on the web and youtube.

Then follow something like what I listed earlier.

LOL EMH are gone.

 

[BaconPancakes]

Plus Driving isn’t always necessarily cheaper than flying. Also it would take us two days to drive to Florida, that’s a no go for me.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Yeah, I’d just guesstimate that maybe half of WDW guests pre-covid were foreigners.

It was 20%, including Canadians.

 

[DisneyHead123]

For families making less than $75k a year, going to WDW is seen as a aspirational goal. Taking your children on the most quintessential American vacation is seen as an important rite of passage.

For people making over $150K a year, WDW is seen as a tourist trap where the great unwashed take their brats. It's not a "real" place like Italy, Aruba or New Zealand.

What Disney is searching for are unicorns. People with endless amounts of money (or at least CC limits) who also don't have any interest in leaving the USA and think Disney's pretend luxury is good enough or the real thing. Do they exist? Yes, but there's a reason why there are still more Value and Moderate hotel inventory on site than Deluxe.

Just my personal impressions, but it seems to me that the distinction here is between hipster types and "Basic" types like myself, ha ha! And that doesn't necessarily correlate with money. Plenty of waitresses and bartenders who save their money to go on hikes across Asia or spiritual quests in India or local food sampling in South America would snub their noses at Disney just as much as the wealthy family who wanted to go skiing in the Alps instead. But, conversely, plenty of upper middle class to wealthy families love Starbucks, Disney, and Panera, not the local slow drip coffee establishment, going on an exotic safari for vacation, and managing to get reservations at the newest It Spot restaurant that just opened in an old townhouse.

To be fair, the data from this survey does agree with your POV, so perhaps you're right - but I do really question what a large, nationwide survey would show. $150K is the salary of many doctors, dentists, engineers, school teachers [edit - more like 100K for teachers] with lots of tenure (in wealthier states), small business owners (remember "Joe the Plumber" from a few years ago?) and so on. In my admittedly anecdotal experience, people from those walks of life see going to Disney every few years and posting the obligatory pictures on Facebook as a must do.

My prediction, which I've said elsewhere - I see Disney going to some form of split days. A daytime ticket and an after hours ticket, maybe. Their supply and demand is way out of of whack. Doing two tickets in a day would essentially double their supply.

 

[jt04]

LOL EMH are gone.

When was the last time you bought WDW tickets? Non expiration tickets haven't been available for years.

I thought they now had early entry for on-site guests. EM(1/2)H. Better than nothing.

Definitely haven't bought tickets for many years. I'm waiting for APs to return. Or non-expiration tickets. Whichever happens first.

 

[Dan Deesnee]

To be fair, the data from this survey does agree with your POV, so perhaps you're right - but I do really question what a large, nationwide survey would show. $150K is the salary of many doctors, dentists, engineers, school teachers with lots of tenure (in wealthier states), small business owners (remember "Joe the Plumber" from a few years ago?) and so on. In my admittedly anecdotal experience, people from those walks of life see going to Disney every few years and posting the obligatory pictures on Facebook as a must do.

My colleagues and I make far more than that and honestly it surprised me how few even have any interest in going to WDW. Most went once in the past 8 years or so when their kids were under 10. It was almost like a check the box thing. Most came back saying they enjoyed it but have no plans to go back.

Anecdotal.

However, being a Disney nut job, I found their lack of desire to go back a bit baffling. Now, with so much removed and prices so much higher, I could understand the reluctance to return.

 

[DisneyHead123]

My colleagues and I make far more than that and honestly it surprised me how few even have any interest in going to WDW. Most went once in the past 8 years or so when their kids were under 10. It was almost like a check the box thing. Most came back saying they enjoyed it but have no plans to go back.

Anecdotal.

However, being a Disney nut job, I found their lack of desire to go back a bit baffling. Now, with so much removed and prices so much higher, I could understand the reluctance to return.

That surprises me as well, although my perspective might be skewed as I am at an age where many people I keep in touch with on social media have kids under 12, and I also work with kids, so I hear from their parents. I will say that as much as I love Disney, I stopped visiting completely for about 15 years between the time that my family stopped going when my siblings and I were teens, and my first nephew was born. So having kids to think about is certainly a big motivation.

 

[spock8113]

It IS unaffordable and that is Disney's goal, to shut out lower income families and make it an Ivy league Theme Park.
This started happening back in the late 1990's where every time we left the park we were met with clipboards.
Most people were calling the new ticket prices outrageous and nothing changed. If anything services and amenities were reduced, just like now. And salaries go up fractionally compared to admission and hotel prices.
Personally, I can only handle 4-5 days maybe once every year especially in the condition and mode by which Disney is being operated right now. Sorry, but there is so much more to see across this great country that is less crowded and far less expensive not to mention more impressive. "Affordable Family Fun" has long since disappeared over the past few years.

 

[Goofyernmost]

When was the last time you bought WDW tickets? Non expiration tickets haven't been available for years.

I used to always buy 10 day tickets when they were non-expiration. Then when Disney decided that guaranteed 10 day spending wasn't their cup of tea marked the same exact time that I stopped going there twice a year and am now down to a couple days every three years or so.

 

[Goofyernmost]

To better understand how prices are determined, the Disney Company is located in California. In California a 700 sq. foot house can cost $1,000,000 dollars. They have no concept of what the majority of the country has for cost of living or income. They can see the numbers but it doesn't register. Granted those two are connected to each other, but WDW is one entity and most of the management of WDW are people sent in from California with California paychecks that find the cost of WDW to the general public parking meter change.