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News Tron coaster coming to the Magic Kingdom

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
I don’t know anywhere where people have suggested numbers as high as 20k (Or even the 15k you had before editing). The most recent addition that truly moved the needle was Pandora which saw DAK entertaining roughly 8k+ additional guests per day. And while you are correct that the attractions of Pandora can more than accommodate those 8k guests it doesn’t exactly work that way. The rest of the parks attractions and infrastructure needs to be able to support those guests as well. And Pandora (and the resort of the park) is not only servicing that additional 8k but also the existing attendance base pre Pandora. Just because guests now have the ability to ride flight of passage doesn’t mean they suddenly don’t want to ride Kilimanjaro Safaris.

That's a good thing, though, not a bad thing. That still leads to a better overall experience for the average guest. Even if it doesn't lower wait times at other attractions, there are still more things to do in the park.

It would only be a bad thing if the park's infrastructure couldn't handle the attendance increase, or if it actually lead to such a significant increase that it caused large wait time increases throughout the park. That certainly wasn't the case for Animal Kingdom -- especially considering Pandora also added infrastructure -- and it's definitely not the case for EPCOT either.

It could potentially be the case for Magic Kingdom, since they still have dining locations closed most of the time, but that's also why I and others have repeatedly pointed out that the parks need additional dining/shopping capacity as well. It's not solely about attractions.
 
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sileic

New Member
I'm new to these parts so sorry for saying something that I imagine has been covered a million times. While I am pumped to ride Tron and Guardians a little bit of me does cringe at the huge boxes that are visible from so many sightlines. Seems to be a 'thing' now. Ratatouille while the least noticebale is the most jarring given it is in a park where in the past Disney went to the time and expense to build the back of a ride in a different theme park a certain way so that even from far away it wouldn't look out of place when seen from just a few places in Epcot.
 

mlayton144

Well-Known Member
They're referring to recent additions like TRON, Cosmic Rewind, and Ratatouille (and even Galaxy's Edge and Pandora), all of which feature large, unthemed warehouses in full view from guest-accessible locations.

I get it , they cut corners on hiding more unsightly areas , most of which are from the outside of the park. I am resigned to this. Does this same poster complain about this approach with universal , etc? When you go there , much of what you see is twisted metals coaster tracks and warehouses - Disney is still be far the best.
 

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
I get it , they cut corners on hiding more unsightly areas , most of which are from the outside of the park. I am resigned to this. Does this same poster complain about this approach with universal , etc? When you go there , much of what you see is twisted metals coaster tracks and warehouses - Disney is still be far the best.
This is what has for many years been a key differentiator for them. That they have cared so little on so many recent projects is worrisome, and that they are still better simply by virtue of what already existed is not exactly encouraging. I really, really hope that at some point they take a step back and better mask some of these structures. It's not reached the point of being unfixable, but they're seriously unsightly.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
I get it , they cut corners on hiding more unsightly areas , most of which are from the outside of the park. I am resigned to this. Does this same poster complain about this approach with universal , etc? When you go there , much of what you see is twisted metals coaster tracks and warehouses - Disney is still be far the best.
Actually.... universal is moving in the opposite direction as Disney. The newer additions are excellently themed with older additions (rip ride rockit being the worst offender in my book) being the eye-sores.
 

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
Some people will tell you that Velocicoaster is well themed and fits in perfectly. Even if you accept the theme argument (and I really don't, but that's a separate discussion) it's still an eyesore that detracts from the surrounding area for me.
Hopefully Disney just generally cools it with coasters at this point since they seem to have become especially awful at hiding the associated boxes. Every non-Magic Kingdom park now has one or two (Cosmic Rewind, Slinky Dog, Rock 'n' Roller Coaster, Expedition Everest), and Magic Kingdom has several tiers for folks of varied levels of adventurousness, from Barnstormer to Seven Dwarves to Big Thunder to Space Mountain to TRON.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Hopefully Disney just generally cools it with coasters at this point since they seem to have become especially awful at hiding the associated boxes. Every non-Magic Kingdom park now has one or two (Cosmic Rewind, Slinky Dog, Rock 'n' Roller Coaster, Expedition Everest), and Magic Kingdom has several tiers for folks of varied levels of adventurousness, from Barnstormer to Seven Dwarves to Big Thunder to Space Mountain to TRON.

I'm hoping they look at Guardians vs. Rise of the Resistance and even Ratatouille and realize that while the occasional coaster is okay, other kinds of attractions are more valuable to their business.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
DAK and Epcot each only have one coaster while MK will have 5. If WDW ever wants to balance out intrapark attendance, the other three non-MK parks need more. (It was dumb to add anything to MK, IMO, until the others were beefed up in the ride count.)

Family coasters are always popular. And when you put them in a box, you can increase the theming in the ride and keep the ride running in rain and thunderstorms.

WDW just needs to get better at hiding the box. Or theming it so it 'fits.'
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
I get it , they cut corners on hiding more unsightly areas , most of which are from the outside of the park. I am resigned to this. Does this same poster complain about this approach with universal , etc? When you go there , much of what you see is twisted metals coaster tracks and warehouses - Disney is still be far the best.
It seems weird to try to call someone out for their posting history if you're not familiar with it - and maybe you should ask that poster instead of me.

But truthfully, the Universal point is pretty irrelevant, because the standards by which Disney themes and/or conceals their showbuildings have been dropping in the last 20 years, with the last 5 years being precipitous. We're not talking about how their average fares relative to the competition, we're talking about how it fares relative to the standards they set for themselves and the expectations they've set for their guests. They can still be doing better work than everybody else (which is debatable) and still be doing worse work on that front than they ever have in their 67 year history.

It also is a mischaracterization to say that these exposed showbuildings are the result of cut corners - all of the attractions I listed are among the most expensive projects in the history of Walt Disney World. So ultimately it comes down to poor decision making about the use of significant funds.
 

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
DAK and Epcot each only have one coaster while MK will have 5. If WDW ever wants to balance out intrapark attendance, the other three non-MK parks need more. (It was dumb to add anything to MK, IMO, until the others were beefed up in the ride count.)
I don't think anything will ever balance attendance. The majority of people will always want Magic Kingdom no matter what as part of their vacation, and I don't really think rollercoasters specifically do much to solve that. Flight of Passage is probably the most significant crowd-mover in recent memory and is Soarin' with a cool ride vehicle.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
Yeah, if we are trying to balance the crowds - Ratatouille, and Frozen did way more than that Guardians coaster will. Which hey, I’d take 4, 100 million IP Disney IP dark rides in world showcase over marvel slopped into future world anyday.

Could have gotten Coco, Mary Poppins, Pinocchio, and.... Brother Bear? Lol :-p
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
I don't think anything will ever balance attendance. The majority of people will always want Magic Kingdom no matter what as part of their vacation, and I don't really think rollercoasters specifically do much to solve that. Flight of Passage is probably the most significant crowd-mover in recent memory and is Soarin' with a cool ride vehicle.
This is the corner they backed themselves into by under-investing in WDW for the first 15 years of Iger's tenure. Magic Kingdom is perennially well attended, but the consesnus is growing that the park is lacking the sizzle that can be found in other parks. The classics are classics, but they should never be allowed to appear creaky, and they have been. The lead up to the 50th would have been the perfect opportunity to go through and make everything sparkle like never before, which could have staved off that growing perception and reminded us all why the Kingdom is King, but sadly we all know how that went.

EPCOT, Hollywood Studios, and Animal Kingdom have long suffered from Little Brother Syndrome, but have not made the genuine effort to overcome that with investment and projects of sufficient scale. Hollywood Studios came closest to finally leveling up, but they undercut themselves by closing too much in the process. The effort has finally been being made to try to give these parks some better attracitons, but for 20+ years they've needed both more AND better. So it's still too little, and still too late. While the last five years have finally given these parks a headlining attraction that command attention, they've all needed more than one of those, as well as a smattering of smaller attractions to help round out the day before and after you hit the new headliner. These parks currently have nothing announced that will move any of the needles necessary to pull genuine ground from the MK.

The result is that people come to MK, feel like it's a little dusty, then visit the non-MK parks and feel like they underwhelm outside of one attraction at each they felt took them to a brave new world. Which makes the rest of the parks and the MK look a little dustier, despite costing more than ever and needing a herculean amount of planning. Which makes people start to look and consider other options for themed entertainment, some of which offer a bigger handful of shiny new attractions that take less effort to access, with more on the way.

Because Disney has gotten themselves to the point where any meaningful investment takes about 5 years from clearing ground to opening day, they've really got to take this summer to figure out that they've got to find some follow-through for EPCOT, DHS, and DAK if they want keep their public perception as top dog. Pandora, Galaxy's Edge, and Cosmic Rewind (personal feelings aside) are good opening acts for a genuine rebirth of each of these parks, but they need to keep that energy and double down. Give Animal Kingdom a new land with a big E-Ticket, 2 real, solid C-Tickets that don't throw you around, and nice Walkthrough and Sit-down Restaurant, (as well as a new Nighttime show - for real this time), give DHS a new land with a big E-Ticket, a D-Ticket, a C-Ticket and a solid Quickservice, and another new D-Ticket elsewhere in the park, and give EPCOT a new Pavilion in the front of the park with a substantial attraction (Imagination is the obvious choice) and a new World Showcase Pavilion with the same. Hold the restaurant, please, EPCOT has plenty at the moment. Pepper in some B-Tickets across these parks, to taste. Close nothing permanently to make these additions happen.

Magic Kingdom has TRON coming online and Splash Mountain heading down for transformation sometime in the short term - while Splash is down they should get something new into the old Stitch building to give Tomorrowland something smaller to see while guests are in Tomorrowland for TRON, cycle through some big plussing refurbs for the classics (Big Thunder, Pirates, Mansion, Peter Pan, Small World, Space Mountain, and even Carousel of Progress all deserve some infusion to look their Sunday Best).

I have absolutely no expectation they'll do any of this. But the problems they have and are on track to encounter can all be solved with money, and regardless of how they feel about spending they do have it. With the recession looming I'm sure they'll want to curb their spending rather than continue it. But this decade has the potential to be transformative for their business in the parks, and right now I don't anticipate it going the way they would want. Not without them bucking up and showing people who's boss.
 
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James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
Because Disney has gotten themselves to the point where any meaningful investment takes about 5 years from clearing ground to opening day, they've really got to take this summer to figure out that they've got to find some follow-through for EPCOT, DHS, and DAK if they want keep their public perception as top dog. Pandora, Galaxy's Edge, and Cosmic Rewind (personal feelings aside) are good opening acts for a genuine rebirth of each of these parks, but they need to keep that energy and double down. Give Animal Kingdom a new land with a big E-Ticket, 2 real, solid C-Tickets that don't throw you around, and nice Walkthrough and Sit-down Restaurant, (as well as a new Nighttime show - for real this time), give DHS a new land with a big E-Ticket, a D-Ticket, a C-Ticket and a solid Quickservice, and another new D-Ticket elsewhere in the park, and give EPCOT a new Pavilion in the front of the park with a substantial attraction and a new World Showcase Pavilion with the same. Hold the restaurant, please, EPCOT has plenty at the moment. Pepper in some B-Tickets across these parks, to taste. Close nothing permanently to make these additions happen.

Magic Kingdom has TRON coming online and Splash Mountain heading down for transformation sometime in the short term - while Splash is down they should get something new into the old Stitch building to give Tomorrowland something smaller to see while guests are in Tomorrowland for TRON, cycle through some big plussing refurbs for the classics (Big Thunder, Pirates, Mansion, Peter Pan, Small World, Space Mountain, Carousel of Progress all deserve some infusion to look their Sunday Best).
+1 to all that. It's also bonkers to me that they don't constantly plus old or underperforming attractions. For instance, there are about 10 glaringly obvious way they could enhance Under the Sea to help it become the people eater it has the potential to be.
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
+1 to all that. It's also bonkers to me that they don't constantly plus old or underperforming attractions. For instance, there are about 10 glaringly obvious way they could enhance Under the Sea to help it become the people eater it has the potential to be.
This is a big part of the issue they've run into - the habit of replacing attractions that should merely be upgraded results in them spending 5 times as much and taking 4 times as long to end up with an attraction that is often as good or marginally better than the original could have been with some love.

The poster child for this is turning The Great Movie Ride into Runaway Railway - the really, really obvious solution should have been to give GMR a big refresh, swap out a few sequences and imrpove show quality throughout, and find some clever ways to replace the most expensive to run elements of the ride (the Fire and Live Actors) with new effects that are as thrilling but require less maintenance and fewer hourly-paid roles. It's not like the premise of the ride wasn't evergreen. Tweak it to suit the newly revised mission of the park, which it has every opportunity to suit, and let it continue to be the heart of the park. Runaway Railway should have taken over the old Animation Tour building, which is terribly underused as Star Wars Launch Bay, and tweak the premise to give guests a tour of the working studio that culminates in a preview of the newest Mickey Short they've just completed. From there the ride can be exactly as built, only now you have two attractions to tout instead of one, and all the capacity that comes with them. You'd also breathe new life into Animation Courtyard, which needs it pretty badly.

I would also encourage them to get real serious about letting the theme of the parks dictate which properties go where instead of letting the theme bend to the whims of the attractions they want to build, but they're far enough down that road that I'm not sure they'd be willing to correct for it.
 

TheMaxRebo

Well-Known Member
DAK and Epcot each only have one coaster while MK will have 5. If WDW ever wants to balance out intrapark attendance, the other three non-MK parks need more. (It was dumb to add anything to MK, IMO, until the others were beefed up in the ride count.)

Family coasters are always popular. And when you put them in a box, you can increase the theming in the ride and keep the ride running in rain and thunderstorms.

WDW just needs to get better at hiding the box. Or theming it so it 'fits.'

Especially with Guardians, that box is so obvious and they could have just put a facade on it that looks Xandarian and would have fit fine among the various Future World / World Discover pavilions

Tron is what it is, hopefully some greenery grows to help block it from the Circus area .... I don't see much of an issue with Remy's
 

TheMaxRebo

Well-Known Member
I would also encourage them to get real serious about letting the theme of the parks dictate which properties go where instead of letting the theme bend to the whims of the attractions they want to build, but they're far enough down that road that I'm not sure they'd be willing to correct for it.

I think they wanted to change the theme of DHS, they didn't want it to be about movies or the history of movies, they wanted it be about the worlds created in various movies and then the guests enter those worlds ...

Not saying that is a good or bad decision but given that decision / evolution, The Great Movie Ride really didn't fit - well, unless they really changed it up I guess and made it like traveling b/w those different "world's" or something
 

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