Trending blog post: "What it's really like working at Walt Disney World"

flynnibus

Premium Member
I think you forget this isn't the 80s and 90s where you could easily graduate college and get a high level paying job in the field you got your degree in. I feel sorry for the kids these days who go to college and graduate only to find that there aren't any jobs available for their degree and end up having to take a low paying job at Disney or Starbucks because that's all there is available to them...

Or maybe they should have taken 'job availability' into their career path decision.. There are thousands of jobs - they aren't in what people think they want to do... and they aren't qualified because they thought a job would be waiting for them vs working towards an objective that was available.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
...that they do not deserve because it is easy, it makes people happy, gets them out of their hair, and makes them look good

And this is the recurring theme in Disney management... take the short easy route that gives 'me me me' immediate satisfaction... ignore the consequences. They do it in how they treat employees, they do it as 'customer service', they do it in operations. They get away with it because of the history of the company and by still having 'enough' of good stuff to keep things from completely falling over. Meanwhile stories like this one become more common, people are less happy, and the company continues to have to sell its soul more and more to maintain the facade.
 

CDavid

Well-Known Member
But I don't think the highly skilled or educated CM's deserve more pay simply due to that fact, if they are performing the same work that unskilled or uneduated workers are provided. They aren't owed anything based on their education.

They certainly should be, because a greater level of education should - in principle - have produced a smarter, more capable employee which will be reflected in their superior job performance. A college education, such as a general liberal arts degree, should help open doors and provide opportunities more readily than your fellow co-workers who lack such educational experience. Even within low-wage, low skill requirement jobs (such as service industries) the employer still benefits from a more productive employee who potentially has more to offer the company, and this should be reflected in compensation ("you get what you pay for", and that saying also applies to employers seeking to provide superior service).

Simply paying employees more for jobs that don't demand higher compensation have other hidden and more damaging consequences. I won't go into them here, but let's just say Disney is doing what any other company needing to hire tens of thousands employees HAS to do.

Disney once paid far better, and could do better today; Low wages are a serious problem in service and related industries nationwide. When employees are unable to make ends meet at a full-time job (there have been and will always be low-wage jobs), that also leads to unintended and very damaging consequences. But just what were you referring to? It certainly seems pertinent to the discussion.

The unfortunate reality is that most of these jobs are rotational and a means to an end. They were never meant to be "careers" and treating them as such will leave you poor and disappointed.

Again, there have always been lower-paying jobs and there always will be, and service-related industries such as Disney require thousands of workers in those positions, and many of them will necessarily spend most or all of their careers in a similar position to the one they started. While they never paid "well", people could formerly make a modest living off low-wage jobs, and specifically at Walt Disney World.

I've never seen a job classification differentiated as jobs which are meant as a "career" versus those which "are rotational", yet every time there is such a debate this claim is made. Whatever happened to the notion that any job is worth having? While people should absolutely aspire to something better in life (at any age), who gets to decide what jobs are "appropriate" for a career? Where is this done, because I've never seen it.

What does he mean when he says 'There are entire GIANT closed areas of the park that Disney is too cheap to keep open (including an entire pavilion and a half at Epcot) which will probably continue to rot away.'?

I think he means there are large portions of the parks which are closed off to guests, because Disney is too cheap to keep them open, and that such closures are likely to continue as the shuttered facilities sit abandoned (or used seasonally/for special events). :)

More seriously, we have such inexplicable situations as a lack of dining capacity in the Magic Kingdom, while the Adventureland Veranda sits closed. Then in Epcot Wonders of Life is completely closed except for special events, the upstairs of Imagination is closed, and the Odyssey has been shut down for so long many posters here probably never ate there or even remember it.

However, the economy is in pretty good shape so a good degree in a decent city is a good place to start.

Where, one might reasonably ask, is the economy in good shape? Perhaps in a corporate world with record profits for executives and investors, but certainly not on mainstreet America.

A good degree should always provide a good start, of course.

Most of those kids are getting bad advice and worthless degrees. Companies don't need history, art, communications, sociology, psychology, and music majors. I didn't want to study finance, but I did because it makes money.

If companies are rejecting most liberal arts degrees out of hand, they are missing out on many highly qualified and talented candidates. Such a degree should be applicable to a wide variety of fields and prospective employers. If it is not (or perhaps more accurately, not seen as applicable by prospective employers), there is a problem either with the degree requirements (coursework and training) or the hiring selection process (perhaps both, but I'd tend to put greater blame on mistaken hiring practices).

You don't have to give up your dreams and your free will and do a law/medicine/economics degree to make money. I'd rather be penniless than work at a job i hate just because i would be rich.

Too many people "follow the money" (or prestige) when choosing a major in higher education, and end up in fields for which they have little interest and sometimes even less aptitude. Money can buy neither happiness nor true success, and persons who have made what is for them a poor degree/career choice aren't going to make the best employees either. The better job candidate may well be the one who has what we're told is one of those "worthless degrees", as opposed to the one who has the "right" credentials but is ultimately less successful. Obviously you can't put a history major into your vacant nuclear engineering position, but apparently someone who started out as a weatherman can make a good corporate CEO.

I think alot of people go to university because they think they should. That is a problem. However, there are many skills you get from an arts degree that can be applied to many jobs. I personally know many people who have gone into many different jobs with their arts degrees - librarians, teachers, Business Heads

Thank You. Yes, a more general arts/liberal arts degree can open doors in a greater variety of fields that a more specialized degree cannot.

I do stand by that there are far too many kids studying subjects that will not give them the best opportunity for sustainable, high earning careers.

Again, not everyone is chasing the money when choosing a career. Many people find fulfillment in life through something other than the balance in their bank account. Not nearly everyone will have a degree or higher-education at all, and they too need and deserve reasonable compensation for their labor. Any advanced degree only solves the economic problem for the individual; What is needed are reasonable, sustainable economic solutions to low-wage jobs for society as a whole.

Let's face it...many kids pick those degrees because the classes are easier and the schools are easier to be accepted.

Which degrees have easier classes? People have different aptitudes and talents, and what you or I may find easy (or difficult) may be just the opposite for someone else.

Even degrees like biology and most educational fields are useless unless you're going to higher education like a phd to be a professor or study medicine to be a doctor.

Why are educational fields useless unless you have a phd? You have no use for public school teachers, I gather? I think they might disagree with you about that useless degree thing...

I went to 2 of the top business schools in the world for my masters and MBA. Most of my classmates make 6 figures right out of school not just because they're smart, but because of the opportunities the degree from Wharton and U of Chicago lend them.

You said it yourself - the doors were opened for economic success based not on the ability of the applicant but rather the name on the degree. That's sad, maybe even disturbing.

Also may be true but you won't even get a call from my company without an MBA or Finance degree from a top school.

I'm sure your company gets many good applicants from those schools, but you have to realize that an even more qualified, more driven, and ultimately more successful candidate could well come from a no-name school or with a more general degree. You are free to limit yourselves like that, but its your loss.

even artsy professions need business guys like me to run things. Disney is a perfect example...above all, it's a business.

Given the ample evidence that top executives at The Walt Disney Company today rely far too much on the financial ("business") aspects of the company and pay too little attention to the creative direction of a content-driven enterprise, I'm not sure that argument really supports your case. Certainly Disney needs "business guys" to help run things (things like $2 billion for MM+ make sense to them), but the pendulum has swung much too far in that direction; You need the creative ("artsy") people, too.

I was at a gas station the other week and it was a busy day and a lot of people were waiting at the counter as the store appeared to be rather short staffed. One customer got angry and started abusing one of the staff members and the staff member in question politely asked him to calm down or he would be asked to leave. This made the customer more angry and threatened physical violence; upon hearing this the duty manager came out of his office and proceeded to reprimanded the staff member followed by apologising to the customer and let him have his gas for free.

general coordinators and managers can be "push overs" and often shower guests with guest service recovery that they do not deserve because it is easy, it makes people happy, gets them out of their hair, and makes them look good. The logic is that often times it costs the company little or nothing to do it and it is better than an upset guest. However, this practice does have it's flaws.

What are we teaching people by performing "customer service" in such an idiotic manner? Besides the fact that a CM or staff member needs to know that their managers will support them when there is a problem (instead of making them out as the bad guy...), the guests/customers are learning the squeaky wheel gets greased. Want some free FastPasses? Just pick a random CM and cause a scene. How about some free gas? Get angry and be threatening to the poor staff person behind the counter; Seems like a small "price" to pay to get something free.

Except the price we all pay isn't small, its huge. When a manager gives in, it does solve the problem for them right then and there, but it creates far worse problems down the line. Had Disney possessed the backbone to enforce its own rules, soft drink (soda) refills would never have become an issue requiring spending millions on a silly system to save pennies on unpaid drinks. If you similarly enforce some rules and standards in the parks, problems with irate guests will eventually decline (with the inverse also true, when you fail to enforce such standards).
 

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
And this is the recurring theme in Disney management... take the short easy route that gives 'me me me' immediate satisfaction... ignore the consequences. They do it in how they treat employees, they do it as 'customer service', they do it in operations.
This line of thinking is also what results in attractions operating with major show elements out (that could easily fixed by shutting down for just a short while) rather than shutting down the attraction temporarily. Guests will be annoyed upfront if an attraction is closed, especially with Fastpass+ having given them the option to schedule in advance. Almost as many will still be upset about broken show elements, but they've already ridden and are less likely to say anything about it. In their eyes, it's a "Disney" problem and not a problem with the local operation, even though the guest service manager has the say to shut down the attraction to have it fixed.

Another reason: numbers. The guest service managers look good on paper when their attractions reach their capacity goals. Its easier to just keep an attraction open than explain why they decided to shut it down, even if the reason would be totally justified.

Example: loss of major key audio that would be fixed with a simple 5-10 minute reboot of the show control system. Nope, too long, keep it open.
 

MissingDisney

Well-Known Member
I am in, dare I say it, in management. Gasp. I work in a professional field, interview candidates for positions, am responsible for a wide variety of various tasks, etc. A lot of these posts have really raised my BP as I don't automatically count you out because you chose a different school than my personal preference, a different major or degree, I do expect you to be treated respectfully by the public and your coworkers and if you're not, I absolutely do not want you to quit. I want to know about it. I can pretty much promise you that the more a person disrespects or makes demands of someone on my staff, the more they are NOT going to get what they want. If they physically assault them, that includes spitting as saliva is a biohazard substance, the sheriff's department will (has been) called and charges will (have been) filed. Threatening to take your business, account, money, elsewhere means nothing. Have at it. Let __________ down the street deal with you. I may lose you but the people who all just witnessed me supporting my employee are going to tell some one and they're going to tell some one and so on. That's a company people want to work for and do business with.

Regardless of the type of business, trade, company..it's the same. It's about respect. It's about the right way to treat people and doing what's right when they don't.

Afterthought-imagine if people came back from Disney talking about how some man or lady finally got shot down when they tried to scam and treat a CM like garbage and didn't get their way instead of us saying "yep, the temper tantrum worked again...." It has to start somewhere.
 
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flynnibus

Premium Member
I've never seen a job classification differentiated as jobs which are meant as a "career" versus those which "are rotational", yet every time there is such a debate this claim is made. Whatever happened to the notion that any job is worth having? While people should absolutely aspire to something better in life (at any age), who gets to decide what jobs are "appropriate" for a career? Where is this done, because I've never seen it.

It comes from countering the mindset people feel that they should be paid based on where they are in their life vs what the work is. And there is such a thing as an 'entry level position' as well as work people know is temporary or transitional.

The problem becomes is that most work is only worth so much to the business. You can only add so much doing a certain type of work. Your pay should be based on your work and value add... not what your life expenses are. So just because Joe has 3 kids and trying to put one through college.. that doesn't make his role should automatically pay 4x the amount that Bill is paid who does the same exact work with similar value-add... regardless of how long Joe has been there. Eventually people outgrow the earnings potential of that job.

A grocery store can't afford to pay a bagger 50k a year simply because the bagger is 45years old and he's been there since he was 14. The position, no matter how good the employee, isn't cost effective for the business at that pay. Just like I can't pay a sales guy more than he brings into the company.. that just doesn't make sense.

How much you pay employees is weighed by several factors, including what kind of wage the type of person you are seeking can tolerate. If you expect a person to be full time, or you have exclusive on their availability, you will generally have to pay someone more than a position that allows them to share their time elsewhere. If you expect to have an adult with certain experiences or presentation... you're going to have to pay more so that the adult can actually afford to work there.

On the flipside, if your role can just as well be handled by someone who is transitional, doesn't have the same kinds of expenses, and can be part time.. like a teenager... then the wages for that job in general are going to be lower. The key is the bold 'as well' - in many jobs the more experienced or tenured employee can add a lot of value vs a new replacement employee... but conversely there are many roles where that tenure adds limited value or tops off very quickly. Those roles in general will be paid less and people will be less likely to stay in long term.

This is why there are jobs people would call non-career... they are jobs you outgrow.. they are jobs where people are easily interchangable/replaceable... they are jobs you top-out very quickly. Your tenure in the role doesn't change the job.. and hence can't keep redefining the wages the role should demand.

Globalization, the consumer demand for cheaper and cheaper products, consumerism, wall street.. all these factors also cause businesses to be less able to pay 'living wages' that people can afford to stay in a position a long time like we had 40 years ago. Few businesses are allowed the luxury of 'just keep on keeping on...'. So expenses keep going up, while pricing pressures keep pushing harder and harder down. It's my opinion that you find countries that tend to buck this trend the best are those whose industries and markets are insulated and under less growth pressure.

The problem we have now is we have a shifting in the workplace in the types of workers we need. We have been killing off many long-term static roles in things like manufacturing while creating more and more positions in lower return, less skilled positions. This creates an inbalance where we have an abundance of openings, but a shortage of the type of people we need to fill them. This is what is fueling all the immigration arguments. The real problem is people are not retraining, or do not, or can not reset their career progress and start over at a lower rung. People refuse to actually go where the work is.. or adapt to the new work. Instead they expect the work to come to them, and be of the type they want. Contrast this with 1-2 generations ago where populations migrated to follow the work. That isn't happening now.
 

Gig 'Em Mickey

Well-Known Member

But I don't think the highly skilled or educated CM's deserve more pay simply due to that fact, if they are performing the same work that unskilled or uneduated workers are provided. They aren't owed anything based on their education.
They certainly should be, because a greater level of education should - in principle - have produced a smarter, more capable employee which will be reflected in their superior job performance. A college education, such as a general liberal arts degree, should help open doors and provide opportunities more readily than your fellow co-workers who lack such educational experience. Even within low-wage, low skill requirement jobs (such as service industries) the employer still benefits from a more productive employee who potentially has more to offer the company, and this should be reflected in compensation ("you get what you pay for", and that saying also applies to employers seeking to provide superior service).

So unequal pay for equal work? you think if I'm in the same job and performing it better and more efficiently than someone doing my job that happens to have a higher level of education they should still get paid more than me just because they have a degree? You think someone with a degree should be paid more just because they have a degree than someone who has a GED even though the GED person might perform the job better? That's bull****. And yes I do have a degree and work management. I've worked in finance and management at 5 fortune 500 companies also.

you're talking theory, I'm talking reality. Sure in theory, and generally speaking, someone more educated SHOULD be able to perform a low skilled job better. However, in reality that's not always the case. you don't get paid based on the level of education you receive, you get paid based on how well you perform the functions of your job or produce value to your employer.
 

jakeman

Well-Known Member
Like seriously? I have a MA in my field how dare you judge my line of work. What do you do? What makes you so special. I'm not simply a film major, I am a teacher and a researcher. Don't you dare put someone down for being a film major, we know more philosophical, sociological, psychological and political theory than you could even imagine. Go ahead, explain to me Focualt, Freud or Plato.
Explain to me how life saving drugs are made.
 

Laura Ellen

Member
So I guess when someone has a different opinion you all just gang up on them. I won't be coming on these boards ever again, you are all such bullies. Just because I spelt his name wrong does not mean I'm an idiot. I hope you all feel really good about yourselves, picking on people who have differing opinions
 

unkadug

Follower of "Saget"The Cult
So I guess when someone has a different opinion you all just gang up on them. I won't be coming on these boards ever again, you are all such bullies. Just because I spelt his name wrong does not mean I'm an idiot. I hope you all feel really good about yourselves, picking on people who have differing opinions
It goes both ways. You want to make a point, but can't take somebody taking the opposite side? That's a pretty one sided argument.

Perhaps you should stick to art, as I think you may need tougher skin if you plan on continuing to use the internet to express yourself.
 

Hakunamatata

Le Meh
Premium Member
It goes both ways. You want to make a point, but can't take somebody taking the opposite side? That's a pretty one sided argument.

Perhaps you should stick to art, as I think you may need tougher skin if you plan on continuing to use the internet to express yourself.
You are too late. The other party said "ever again".
 

Bairstow

Well-Known Member
So I guess when someone has a different opinion you all just gang up on them. I won't be coming on these boards ever again, you are all such bullies. Just because I spelt his name wrong does not mean I'm an idiot. I hope you all feel really good about yourselves, picking on people who have differing opinions

Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they are "bullying" you.
As far as I can tell, no one has called you names, or harassed you beyond the confines of this discussion thread.
 

MissingDisney

Well-Known Member
So I guess when someone has a different opinion you all just gang up on them. I won't be coming on these boards ever again, you are all such bullies. Just because I spelt his name wrong does not mean I'm an idiot. I hope you all feel really good about yourselves, picking on people who have differing opinions
Please calm down. No one called you an idiot. You came to that conclusion on your own. They aren't picking on you for having a different opinion. They're making light of the irony in your argument. If you're going to reason all educations/degrees are equal, that's fine. It's your opinion; you're entitled to it. But when arguing your case and point, you may want to make sure you spell correctly or else it just sounds silly. Example: A doctor making a spelling error on a script could kill some one, a film director making a spelling error...not so much.
 

Philharmagically

Active Member
Regarding the blog post, I agree that it sounds more like a rant than a well thought out argument against Disney's employment practices. However, the issues he raised are not baseless (seen through the supporting examples within this thread). I have only been to WDW once, back in 2011, and never encountered any rude guests (or, more likely, the pixie dust obscured them from view!).

But, I have read numerous threads on this site about rude guest behaviour. In particular, one was about the rude guests getting their "just desserts" - as opposed to being rewarded for their bad behaviour. The common theme within each anecdote was that it was always when a fellow guest stood up against the rude one (supporting the CM), that action would be taken AGAINST the guest who was acting inappropriately (despite the manager trying to put the blame on the CM).

So what we can all take from this is that although the managers may want to put blame on the CM, we have the power (and the obligation) to stand up for the CM, in turn praising their actions. Because then the manager will have no choice but to "reward" those who disapprove of the other guest's actions.

Us guests/consumers have a lot more power to change the way incidents are addressed, but ONLY if we take action. And if enough of us do so, we may be able to change the culture from rewarding bad behaviour, to rewarding good behaviour.
 

BrittanyRose428

Well-Known Member
Here's my $.02. The article sounds like a rant to me, my current job at Disney is not nearly as unbearable as he's making it sound. That being said, your managers can really make or break your situation, and I'm sure that in such a large company not every manager is perfect. The pay is also not good, as we know, but it's on the same level as most other jobs in this field, so I'm not surprised. This isn't a job you do for the money, it's a job you do because you love what you do.

My biggest issue I have while working here is the guest entitlement that he brought up. I agree with the other posters who said that it's a problem at any job that deals with the public, it's just worse here because you deal with so many more people on a daily basis. So many guests feel very entitled for no reason, and that's the most difficult thing about working here. Today I was cussed out at work by a guest who wasn't happy when I told her she could not smoke at my location, and gave directions to the closest designated smoking area. I also made a little princess's day by having the Tiana pin she'd been looking for on my lanyard, and by spending some time chatting about her favorite Disney movies. The biggest problem is entitled guests, but there are so many awesome guests who make up for the crappy ones, and that's what makes it worth doing.
 

Hakunamatata

Le Meh
Premium Member
Here's my $.02. The article sounds like a rant to me, my current job at Disney is not nearly as unbearable as he's making it sound. That being said, your managers can really make or break your situation, and I'm sure that in such a large company not every manager is perfect. The pay is also not good, as we know, but it's on the same level as most other jobs in this field, so I'm not surprised. This isn't a job you do for the money, it's a job you do because you love what you do.

My biggest issue I have while working here is the guest entitlement that he brought up. I agree with the other posters who said that it's a problem at any job that deals with the public, it's just worse here because you deal with so many more people on a daily basis. So many guests feel very entitled for no reason, and that's the most difficult thing about working here. Today I was cussed out at work by a guest who wasn't happy when I told her she could not smoke at my location, and gave directions to the closest designated smoking area. I also made a little princess's day by having the Tiana pin she'd been looking for on my lanyard, and by spending some time chatting about her favorite Disney movies. The biggest problem is entitled guests, but there are so many awesome guests who make up for the crappy ones, and that's what makes it worth doing.
Nicely stated.
 

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