Toy Story Land expansion announced for Disney's Hollywood Studios

Casper Gutman

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
Andrew C said:
So, SWL is giving us two higher level attractions (and probably one of the best themed lands anywhere). TSL is giving us two lower level attractions. And Mickey seems like it is a new e-ticket replacing an old e-ticket.

You stated "the rest of the MGM makeover is the bare minimum." The only thing I see so far that can be considered "bare minimum" is TSL.

We don't really know what else is supposed to come, unless Martin has provided some new information that I missed. So, I would say it is probably too early to judge whether the MGM makeover is going to be the bare minimum or not.
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TSL, SWL, and Mickey ARE "the makeover." That's it. More may be built at MGM in the future, but I don't believe that can reasonably be considered part of "the makeover" just as I don't consider DCA's upcoming Marvel Land part of DCA's makeover. Otherwise, 15 years down the road we'll still be saying "You can't judge MGM! It's still being made over!"

Also, I did argue that, even though SWL will be neat, given the nature of the IP it still fits the "bare minimum" mold.
 
Andrew C

Andrew C

You know what's funny?
Casper Gutman said:
TSL, SWL, and Mickey ARE "the makeover." That's it. More may be built at MGM in the future, but I don't believe that can reasonably be considered part of "the makeover" just as I don't consider DCA's upcoming Marvel Land part of DCA's makeover. Otherwise, 15 years down the road we'll still be saying "You can't judge MGM! It's still being made over!"

Also, I did argue that, even though SWL will be neat, given the nature of the IP it still fits the "bare minimum" mold.
Click to expand...

There are potentially other phases that have been reported...unless those are all out the window now.
 
Kman101

Kman101

Well-Known Member
How do two etickets and a likely impressive land in SWL constitute the bare minimum? Let's criticize where it's deserved.

To each their own about TSL. Don't like the coaster don't ride it when it opens :)

I have said they need more and they know they do. Let's see what happens. It's easy to criticize.
 
Casper Gutman

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
Kman101 said:
How do two etickets and a likely impressive land in SWL constitute the bare minimum? Let's criticize where it's deserved.

To each their own about TSL. Don't like the coaster don't ride it when it opens :)

I have said they need more and they know they do. Let's see what happens. It's easy to criticize.
Click to expand...

To be fair, it's also easy to defend. Basically, it's pretty easy to post on a message board regardless of the content.

Again, I argue above why SWL is neat but underwhelming given the franchise and the way it was acquired. This is the unparalleled crown jewel of franchises, Iger's prize acquisition, a pop culture fixture that borders on a modern myth, and it's getting two neat rides in a land that is being placed in such a way as to indicate Disney has no foreseeable plans to expand it.

As to TSL - opinions are subjective, but look at the areas counterparts in other Disney parks. We have quite a good idea of what we're getting. It's Barnstormer and Alladin's carpets with light theming taking up a great big area. It's not Disney quality - it's an example of subtraction by addition.

Remember, this makeover is meant to fix a park that was rushed to opening, never really had enough capacity even in its heyday, and was then neglected for well over a decade. They have a LOT of ground to make up here, and it needs to be judged on those terms.
 
Kman101

Kman101

Well-Known Member
Casper Gutman said:
To be fair, it's also easy to defend. Basically, it's pretty easy to post on a message board regardless of the content.

Again, I argue above why SWL is neat but underwhelming given the franchise and the way it was acquired. This is the unparalleled crown jewel of franchises, Iger's prize acquisition, a pop culture fixture that borders on a modern myth, and it's getting two neat rides in a land that is being placed in such a way as to indicate Disney has no foreseeable plans to expand it.

As to TSL - opinions are subjective, but look at the areas counterparts in other Disney parks. We have quite a good idea of what we're getting. It's Barnstormer and Alladin's carpets with light theming taking up a great big area. It's not Disney quality - it's an example of subtraction by addition.

Remember, this makeover is meant to fix a park that was rushed to opening, never really had enough capacity even in its heyday, and was then neglected for well over a decade. They have a LOT of ground to make up here, and it needs to be judged on those terms.
Click to expand...

I know exactly what the makeover was meant to fix. I've been ranting about how disappointed in it I am for months and months and months LOL

How do you know Star Wars Land will be underwhelming? You've experienced it? I'm sorry but that's such a stretch IMHO. You're writing it off two years before it even opens. You've already made up your mind on it.

TSL will for sure be underwhelming. They clearly aren't putting in a lot of effort. We aren't getting anything like Dumbo or Aladdin's carpets. It's the same ride system used for Mater's in DCA that people eat up and think is really fun. I'm not justifying it, but the park could use some flat rides whether you or I personally like them or not. Have you been on Slinky Dog Dash? It's a kiddy coaster? Short doesn't mean "kiddy". That word gets thrown around a lot. People threw it around to dismiss Seven Dwarfs Mine Train. I'm not a fan of exposed coasters but I think it will be fun.

Why hate on things you haven't experienced yet? I don't get that, but you're certainly entitled to feel how you feel, I'm just not sure you're being quite fair.

Not really sure what you mean to imply by "it's easy to post on a message board". We all have different tastes but it's a shame you're writing off SWL two years before it opens. It's also a shame you seem to hate everything they do.

I know it's the cool thing to do now to trash IPs and moan about Iger and how awful he is and how awful the parks are and how awful everything new is. Look. I've been underwhelmed by their decisions at WDW for a long time now. I'm not a pixie duster who defends them but I think they deserve fair criticism.
 
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Casper Gutman

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
Kman101 said:
I know exactly what the makeover was meant to fix. I've been ranting about how disappointed in it I am for months and months and months LOL

How do you know Star Wars Land will be underwhelming? You've experienced it? I'm sorry but that's such a stretch IMHO. You're writing it off two years before it even opens. You've already made up your mind on it.

TSL will for sure be underwhelming. They clearly aren't putting in a lot of effort. We aren't getting anything like Dumbo or Aladdin's carpets. It's the same ride system used for Mater's in DCA that people eat up and think is really fun. I'm not justifying it, but the park could use some flat rides whether you or I personally like them or not. Have you been on Slinky Dog Dash? It's a kiddy coaster? Short doesn't mean "kiddy". That word gets thrown around a lot. People threw it around to dismiss Seven Dwarfs Mine Train. I'm not a fan of exposed coasters but I think it will be fun.

Why hate on things you haven't experienced yet? I don't get that, but you're certainly entitled to feel how you feel, I'm just not sure you're being quite fair.
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I've said over and over that I think SWL will be really awesome and that I am looking forward to it a great deal. I've said that every single time I mention it, and I mean it. However, IN THE CONTEXT of MGM's needs, the nature of the Star Wars franchise, and the importance of the franchise to Disney generally and Iger specifically, I don't feel it is enough. Were it based on a different franchise and placed in a complete park, my opinion would be different.

I don't think MGM needs flat rides. I don't think any Disney park really needs them. Does EPCOT? Is the need for such things a valid defense of Dinorama? (note: I'm playing devil's advocate here - I like Dinorama more than 95% of posters on these boards - I think its the only area at WDW that DOES need flat rides.) Disney needs unique rides that only Disney can create.

People like Mater's because of it's integration into a wonderful whole, not as an individual entity. The whole of TSL ain't wonderful.

Short doesn't mean "kiddie" - short is actually much worse than "kiddie." It's "kiddie" because of the mild nature of the thrills - compare Slinky to Hulk or almost any of the coasters at Cedar Park or Knotts. Now, I think the coaster being "kiddie" is great - in fact, coasters at Disney should welcome as many people as possible. it's not the lack of thrills that's a problem. It's the lack of theming and, in general, the lack of effort the ride demonstrates.

And I don't "hate." I am basing my opinions on decades of personal experience, reading insiders, and viewing concept art and other press materials. Disney is stepping in the right direction, but I'm not convinced they intend to keep walking. If they greenlight a further MGM land and add - let's say an E- and two D-tickets to the park by 2023 without removing anything significant, I'll admit I was wrong about the makeover.

You know what might have given me a bit more faith in the makeover? If the first thing WDW had done was announce the replacement of all the stale live shows with completely new, cool shows. LM, B&B, Disney Jr., even Fantasmic - all new. It would have been relatively cheap and easy and shown dedication to changing the park.

By the by, though I am disagreeing with you here, I wanted to apologize - when I first came on this board I snapped at you and it wasn't fair. You're a strong, reasonable poster.
 
MisterPenguin

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Andrew C said:
There are potentially other phases that have been reported...unless those are all out the window now.
Click to expand...

The other phases are gone. The rumored Phase 3 became the Mickey Ride for later which became the Mickey Ride for sooner than later. Which then leaves nothing solid except blue-sky spit-balling white-boarding stuff. Replacing some of the entertainment was supposed to be sooner than later, but then became sometime later. One dast not touch the Beauty and the Beast show at this time of a billion dollar movie. Star Tours will in 2020 or 2021 become... something else.

So:
  • TSL for 2018
  • SWL & Mickey Ride for 2019

Beyond that, nothing firm, just vagaries.
 
Kman101

Kman101

Well-Known Member
Casper Gutman said:
I've said over and over that I think SWL will be really awesome and that I am looking forward to it a great deal. I've said that every single time I mention it, and I mean it. However, IN THE CONTEXT of MGM's needs, the nature of the Star Wars franchise, and the importance of the franchise to Disney generally and Iger specifically, I don't feel it is enough. Were it based on a different franchise and placed in a complete park, my opinion would be different.

I don't think MGM needs flat rides. I don't think any Disney park really needs them. Does EPCOT? Is the need for such things a valid defense of Dinorama? (note: I'm playing devil's advocate here - I like Dinorama more than 95% of posters on these boards - I think its the only area at WDW that DOES need flat rides.) Disney needs unique rides that only Disney can create.

People like Mater's because of it's integration into a wonderful whole, not as an individual entity. The whole of TSL ain't wonderful.

Short doesn't mean "kiddie" - short is actually much worse than "kiddie." It's "kiddie" because of the mild nature of the thrills - compare Slinky to Hulk or almost any of the coasters at Cedar Park or Knotts. Now, I think the coaster being "kiddie" is great - in fact, coasters at Disney should welcome as many people as possible. it's not the lack of thrills that's a problem. It's the lack of theming and, in general, the lack of effort the ride demonstrates.

And I don't "hate." I am basing my opinions on decades of personal experience, reading insiders, and viewing concept art and other press materials. Disney is stepping in the right direction, but I'm not convinced they intend to keep walking. If they greenlight a further MGM land and add - let's say an E- and two D-tickets to the park by 2023 without removing anything significant, I'll admit I was wrong about the makeover.

You know what might have given me a bit more faith in the makeover? If the first thing WDW had done was announce the replacement of all the stale live shows with completely new, cool shows. LM, B&B, Disney Jr., even Fantasmic - all new. It would have been relatively cheap and easy and shown dedication to changing the park.

By the by, though I am disagreeing with you here, I wanted to apologize - when I first came on this board I snapped at you and it wasn't fair. You're a strong, reasonable poster.
Click to expand...

I really appreciate the last part :) Thank you! I really do try and understand everyone's opinions that differ from mine. Sometimes I maybe come off a bit harsh or critical but I'm really not trying to be. And to be fair, I really don't even remember how you addressed me when you first got here, I move on from that kind of thing almost instantly. I don't hold grudges or resentment. I like the engagement in discussions we've had.

I think we mostly agree overall though. In the context of this makeover for DHS, it's a letdown. I mean, this park can't even update their 30 year old shows or replace them! It's been handled pretty badly.

I absolutely agree I would have had more faith in this makeover had we gotten a real solid announcement, such as a name change, the stage shows being replaced. I wanted something that we see the other parks overseas get, a laid out plan. Like DCA got. A real makeover, with placemaking.

I do disagree in that I think all parks need flat rides. I know they're divisive amongst us all, but we're also getting two e-tickets and another e-ticket in the Mickey ride (and I hate that Mickey is replacing the Great Movie Ride). If it were JUST flat rides, I'd riot, LOL. I mean, DCA got away with them. Some defend Dinorama for them. MK and Disneyland have had them from the start. I think a fleshed out park should have a vast variety of attractions, like flat rides, walkthroughs, stage shows, animatronic shows, kinetics like boats on the water, trolleys in the street, streetsmosphere.

And with the Mickey ride replacing GMR, that also strikes me as ridiculous. They know they need ADDED attractions but they're replacing the centerpiece of the park. I have no issues with Mickey getting a ride, it's LONG overdue, but not the way they're going about it. Instead of finding the budget to fix the GMR *and* build Mickey, they're instead gutting the GMR and putting in a ride everyone will defend and embrace because it's Mickey Mouse. I'm so tired of them replacing attractions instead of adding attractions.

In reality, they're just swapping out other attractions that have closed at DHS for new attractions. I know some think we're gaining but we're really not.
 
Kman101

Kman101

Well-Known Member
MisterPenguin said:
The other phases are gone. The rumored Phase 3 became the Mickey Ride for later which became the Mickey Ride for sooner than later. Which then leaves nothing solid except blue-sky spit-balling white-boarding stuff. Replacing some of the entertainment was supposed to be sooner than later, but then became sometime later. One dast not touch the Beauty and the Beast show at this time of a billion dollar movie. Star Tours will in 2020 or 2021 become... something else.

So:
  • TSL for 2018
  • SWL & Mickey Ride for 2019

Beyond that, nothing firm, just vagaries.
Click to expand...

While nothing firm, it doesn't mean they don't have plans we aren't aware of. I know better, LOL, but I'm hopeful they recognize they need more (and they do, but will they get the budget?). They could announce Phase 3 at D23 for all we know (and no, I don't think they will. Just saying ... lol).

There's plenty the insiders here probably aren't letting out quite yet. Although I doubt they're about DHS :(
 
Casper Gutman

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
Kman101 said:
I really appreciate the last part :) Thank you! I really do try and understand everyone's opinions that differ from mine. Sometimes I maybe come off a bit harsh or critical but I'm really not trying to be. And to be fair, I really don't even remember how you addressed me when you first got here, I move on from that kind of thing almost instantly. I don't hold grudges or resentment. I like the engagement in discussions we've had.

I think we mostly agree overall though. In the context of this makeover for DHS, it's a letdown. I mean, this park can't even update their 30 year old shows or replace them! It's been handled pretty badly.

I absolutely agree I would have had more faith in this makeover had we gotten a real solid announcement, such as a name change, the stage shows being replaced. I wanted something that we see the other parks overseas get, a laid out plan. Like DCA got. A real makeover, with placemaking.

I do disagree in that I think all parks need flat rides. I know they're divisive amongst us all, but we're also getting two e-tickets and another e-ticket in the Mickey ride (and I hate that Mickey is replacing the Great Movie Ride). If it were JUST flat rides, I'd riot, LOL. I mean, DCA got away with them. Some defend Dinorama for them. MK and Disneyland have had them from the start. I think a fleshed out park should have a vast variety of attractions, like flat rides, walkthroughs, stage shows, animatronic shows, kinetics like boats on the water, trolleys in the street, streetsmosphere.

And with the Mickey ride replacing GMR, that also strikes me as ridiculous. They know they need ADDED attractions but they're replacing the centerpiece of the park. I have no issues with Mickey getting a ride, it's LONG overdue, but not the way they're going about it. Instead of finding the budget to fix the GMR *and* build Mickey, they're instead gutting the GMR and putting in a ride everyone will defend and embrace because it's Mickey Mouse. I'm so tired of them replacing attractions instead of adding attractions.

In reality, they're just swapping out other attractions that have closed at DHS for new attractions. I know some think we're gaining but we're really not.
Click to expand...

I agree that we are largely in agreement! In my experience, that's often when people argue the most!

You make a good argument for featuring a variety of attraction types, and I am actually less bothered by the TSL flat then the coaster. If TSL had the flat AND a dark ride, I'd be quite happy.

A question to anyone who might know (and this isn't really a complaint) - how does the flat fit into the theming? Andy built the coaster, but is the flat some kind of toy set he's playing with? Why are the martians pulling carts?
 
Pedro Soto

Pedro Soto

Active Member
hpyhnt 1000 said:
The coaster seems like it could pack a mild thrill to it. The track appears relatively "bouncy," with quite a few little bunny hops in the first half (yellow arrows). I guess they're really trying for a slinky-like feel to the ride.

View attachment 208370



The paths are present in the concept art. I'm guessing they're modestly "themed" maintenance walkways for equipment access. They're spread throughout the interior (see yellow lines).

Also, it looks like you can start to see the footings for some of the block towers and other props that will stand over/next to the coaster track (red circles). And the 2nd launch section is taking shape, with the mounting points for the arches clearly visible (orange numbers).

View attachment 208373

View attachment 208372
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On the first picture, whats the status of the 2 small buildings by the large white fence their making ??? They seem out of place & I would think would remove them sooooo COULD THIS BY THE SPOT FOR WOODYS ROUND UP ;)
 
danlb_2000

danlb_2000

Premium Member
Pedro Soto said:
On the first picture, whats the status of the 2 small buildings by the large white fence their making ??? They seem out of place & I would think would remove them sooooo COULD THIS BY THE SPOT FOR WOODYS ROUND UP ;)
Click to expand...

That's a good question. I assume they are staying but it's not clear yet how they are going to mask them.
 

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