Today show does a follow up on the "Rich Manhattan Moms"

[Goofyernmost]

Then suggest something better. How is it not fair? They can wait just as long as the rest of us, but comfortably at the load point. This way you are not technically going to the front of the line, just a standby location to wait for those companions that are able to stand in line. There is nothing unfair about this. It is called wait your turn. Remember it is what people used to do before the me me me now now now phase of our society.

I understand what you are saying, but, that is really using a wide brush on the situation. I have accompanied a number of disabled people to Disney and I can assure you that because you go to a different spot doesn't necessarily mean you get on right away. Disney has some rules about how many people with disabilities can be on the ride at one time. Logically because, if they had to evacuate, they can only deal with specific numbers of people to get them to safety.

You were advocating a drastic reduction in numbers of people that can go with them (it's currently six) and if they are legitimate that's how it should be. They can't really wait until their party catches up because of the numbers that Disney has to deal with concerning disabled riders. The problem is the ones that shouldn't be using a GAC card but are. It just doesn't seem fair that those with real problems have to suffer because of the classless ones.

 

[Victor Kelly]

Life is not fair, people need to accept that. In a fair world we would have no hunger, no wars, both teams would win the games, Mr Toad and Horizons and World of Motion would still be here and there would be no vacant buildings in the parks or on the grounds of WDW.

Life is not like that. The bad apples ruin it for everyone every single time. While I understand your POV, simply doing nothing contributes to the problem. The guests that have to wait, is part of what I just suggested. So therefore the statement that Disney only lets on so many disabled guests at a time is kinda moot, as there is a system to deal with a line of disabled guests.

Having an escort and a disabled guest ride, is fair, since it has been stated they do not get on right away. But they do go to the front of the line, which I have no issue with. But having a disabled guest and a party of 4-20, is the issue. In this case the party should be waiting in line together while the disabled guest and escort wait at the boarding area for their party to arrive. I fail to see how this is so extreme. Only people who want to take advantage of the system would argue against the fairness of waiting one's turn.

 

[dadddio]

My bet is that the company sees this as such a tiny issue that nothing is done out of concern that the solution will be worse than the problem.

 

[Tigger1988]

Having an escort and a disabled guest ride, is fair, since it has been stated they do not get on right away. But they do go to the front of the line, which I have no issue with. But having a disabled guest and a party of 4-20, is the issue. In this case the party should be waiting in line together while the disabled guest and escort wait at the boarding area for their party to arrive. I fail to see how this is so extreme. Only people who want to take advantage of the system would argue against the fairness of waiting one's turn.

You don't see the issue of making families separate for long periods of times? Believe it not some families go on vacation to *gasp* spend time together. Someone who is already disabled shouldn't be forced to be separate from their party just because you think it's fair.

 

[The Mom]

My bet is that the company sees this as such a tiny issue that nothing is done out of concern that the solution will be worse than the problem.

If the abuse doesn't irritate people enough to keep them from visiting, it won't be seriously addressed. If people start staying away because of it, or if enough people start making official complaints, it will.

But unless each guest has to submit a written medical excuse in order to get a GAC or any special treatment, it will continue. There is no 100% sure way to tell if someone is disabled just by looking at them. I brought my mother to WDW after a near fatal cardiac event (it was my parent's 50th wedding anniversary, and they had been looking forward to it) but had to promise her doctor that I would take care of her, and make her use a wheelchair - even though she felt fine at the time, could walk normally, and didn't want to use it.

So, she was able to get out of the chair and walk unto an attraction, or into a restaurant, etc. She just couldn't walk any long distances or over exert herself. She did not appear disabled to the casual observer, and one CM even made a statement implying that she was scamming the system! I'm sure many guests also thought we were abusing the system. And should my father have stayed with her while I waited in line alone, or should he have waited alone? The same could be said of a family with children - do you separate them, or allow more than one person to be with the person with the GAC?

The solution is not as clear cut as some would like it to be.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Sorry, but the solution IS pretty clear, do what almost every other park does, and stop handing out an easy to forge pass with no way to verify its being used by the correct people or legitimately that entitles the holder to instant and unlimited use of Fastpass queues. I'm not sure why some of you think that is the only answer as to providing assistance to disabilities.

 

[Victor Kelly]

You don't see the issue of making families separate for long periods of times? Believe it not some families go on vacation to *gasp* spend time together. Someone who is already disabled shouldn't be forced to be separate from their party just because you think it's fair.

Nope I see no problem. Here goes the inevitable drama starting, they are not spending hours apart for each ride. Oh god they have to spend an hour in line while their disabled family member sits with an escort and apparently impatiently waits for them. Oh god the sky is falling, the sky is falling! It is the end of the vacation, it is the end of the world, mercy mercy!

Get real. A real world point. I had to show legitimate disability for my passport to be issued with me wearing dark glasses because I am sensitive to light due to a brain injury. Nobody anywhere can ask me to remove them by law. Disney can require proof of disability. The cannot say no to those with a medical issue, they can require proof. Only if they do not provide reasonable accommodations are they in violation of ADA laws. Disney also cannot maintain a record of said medical issue for privacy reasons, where the government can. While this is an issue as well as the easily forged pass, it does not address the huge parties abusing and using disabled persons for front of the line priviledges.

By the discussions of some here it is very clear that there are certain people here that have little to no issue with either the flat out blatant abuse of the GAC and/ or issue with many people in a group being allowed front of line based upon one person's disability. Which leads me to postulate that those people screaming hardest and protesting the most are possibly the ones that either encourage the behaviour being contested or are the ones perpetrating said behaviour.

A popular quote that makes a lot of sense "The good of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one" It may be from a movie, but logic is logic any way you look at it.

 

[Victor Kelly]

If the abuse doesn't irritate people enough to keep them from visiting, it won't be seriously addressed. If people start staying away because of it, or if enough people start making official complaints, it will.

But unless each guest has to submit a written medical excuse in order to get a GAC or any special treatment, it will continue. There is no 100% sure way to tell if someone is disabled just by looking at them. I brought my mother to WDW after a near fatal cardiac event (it was my parent's 50th wedding anniversary, and they had been looking forward to it) but had to promise her doctor that I would take care of her, and make her use a wheelchair - even though she felt fine at the time, could walk normally, and didn't want to use it.

So, she was able to get out of the chair and walk unto an attraction, or into a restaurant, etc. She just couldn't walk any long distances or over exert herself. She did not appear disabled to the casual observer, and one CM even made a statement implying that she was scamming the system! I'm sure many guests also thought we were abusing the system. And should my father have stayed with her while I waited in line alone, or should he have waited alone? The same could be said of a family with children - do you separate them, or allow more than one person to be with the person with the GAC?

The solution is not as clear cut as some would like it to be.

Your third paragraph raised a good question which I will address first. One disabled person with two healthy people is not a problem. It is the scammers who bring in large groups of 4 or more. Most attractions can easily absorb a group of 3 or 4. It is when that number goes higher that there is an issue.

I have posted before to ignore the comments, and stares, if you are legitimate then you know you are and have no moral issue with using a system put into place for that situation. You should have reported the cast member's comments to supervision. We had a family member with close to the same situation as your mom. Can move into and out of attractions and food places, but long distances and long periods of standing were out of the question. He was accomodated easily as were two of us. Long ago I ditched the judgement on sight alone because my training I received helped do that.

To get a GAC proof should be required. Those that need it will have no issues getting the proof the same as you do for a handicapped tag or placard. Make the GAC with a photo, and RFID, application by mail or in person. This will allow no transfers, unable to be forged and convenient as you can already have it before you leave your home to travel.

Nowadays people just want everything now with little regard for others. And while there are many that do not scam the system, there are those that will.

 

[Tom]

Your third paragraph raised a good question which I will address first. One disabled person with two healthy people is not a problem. It is the scammers who bring in large groups of 4 or more. Most attractions can easily absorb a group of 3 or 4. It is when that number goes higher that there is an issue.

I have posted before to ignore the comments, and stares, if you are legitimate then you know you are and have no moral issue with using a system put into place for that situation. You should have reported the cast member's comments to supervision. We had a family member with close to the same situation as your mom. Can move into and out of attractions and food places, but long distances and long periods of standing were out of the question. He was accomodated easily as were two of us. Long ago I ditched the judgement on sight alone because my training I received helped do that.

To get a GAC proof should be required. Those that need it will have no issues getting the proof the same as you do for a handicapped tag or placard. Make the GAC with a photo, and RFID, application by mail or in person. This will allow no transfers, unable to be forged and convenient as you can already have it before you leave your home to travel.

Nowadays people just want everything now with little regard for others. And while there are many that do not scam the system, there are those that will.

The "requiring proof" thing is pretty much the root of the entire issue. I'm not going to cite law, because it's not my specialty, but it's been well noted that Disney personnel cannot require guests to prove they're disabled, or to ask them to identify their specific disability. Disney (whether because they're a private entity, or because they're not a "medical professional") does not possess the right to collect this information.

While you are very open with your specific disability, most people who have a serious (yet invisible) illness, ailment or other disability, are pretty self conscious about it. And they definitely don't want to be spouting it off to some minimum wage CM in the middle of City Hall. Heck, people who have things like cancer, or other life-threatening illnesses, barely want to discuss it with their doctors, or outside their immediately household.

I would be in that crowd, should I ever become inflicted with such an illness or disability. I'm very private, and I'm not about to tell my deepest secrets to some random Disney employee. As would my dad, who is quite literally in such a situation currently. His solution is to simply admit that there are things he can't do anymore - rather than ask for accommodation - but that's just his personality.

There are loopholes in every set of rules, and that's why I wish Disney would think outside the box. I've suggested (on here) staffing Guest Relations with a medical professional, perhaps in a secluded room, where guests can apply for a specific GAC while communicating with someone carrying credentials and a vow of confidentiality. It may not be possible, or get around the laws, but it would solve a lot of the abuse issues.

Not only would they be able to continue their excellent record of accommodating guests who truly need assistance, but they'd be able to do so in a more thorough and private manner....while also deterring the abusers from even attempting it because of the hassle, or risk of being caught (like the bag check process).

There's no argument that the system is being abused. And I honestly don't believe there's anyone participating in this discussion who thinks the abuse (whether by this group of "elite" individuals, or the general public) is acceptable. It's just that laws and other oversight have opened up glaring loopholes in the system...and I, along with many, feel that Disney needs to find the counter-loopholes.

With any luck, the negative press from this story will actually get Disney to do something.

 

[Victor Kelly]

Hence the statement of mine stating that Disney cannot keep the information in paper or electronic form, and the inability to discriminate based upon physical needs. Also, a doctors note stating that their is a medical need for assistance is generally enough, without specifying disability in any way shape of form, also allowed under ADA rules.

They can require pretty much anything else they want as they are a private entity. It is their land, business and rules. According to the backs of the tickets, they have the right to set the rules, make new rules and kick people out according to those rules.

I do like the suggestion about turning the tables on the scammers, finding them, then banning them is a wonderful idea. However, I believe people here are still for the scamming, mostly due to the addition of drama into their posts in this thread, but in many other threads in the past. Notably about FP, and the rules governing its usage.

 

[kucarachi]

Back a few years ago when they had the Virtual Online Magic kingdom...we had won a free keys to the kingdom tour by playing the game and collecting certain cards. It was maybe an hour to an hour and a half at the most and we literally did just what these handicap people where doing...even getting to choose where we wanted to sit on most of them. They took us through backdoors, backstage lines bypassing even the fast pass lines and it was amazing. I must say i did feel guilty just walking by people that were tired, hot, angry and had little ones to boot...but i will say going through all the rides that fast, with no wait is like fast forwarding halfway through a movie and ruins the experience. I know Universal offers the VIP pass and we like that, but you are paying for it...and really whenever i am at universal i feel like i am cheating on disney and want out of there as soon as possible!

 

[ddrongowski]

The GAC, as it is set up, has to cover a myriad of situations. Several of those are simply not being able to sit, stand or wait for extended periods. This could cover anything from autism to spinal chord injuries.

Why is someone with spinal chord injuries, riding roller coasters, or bumpy rides?

 

[asc341]

Well. It isn't any of my business, but it's just another case of the "rich" taking advantage of a system in place for people who really need it. And now the system is in "danger" of being changed and/or "scrapped altogether due to this abuse.

I'm not defending what's going on here, but seems to me that the disabled tour guides are taking as much advantage of the system as the rich who buy into it. Are consumers more to blame for being willing to pay for (a perhaps an immoral) service, than the ones who provide it?

Rich folk always seem to be an easy target (too many fiction movies depicting them as evil?,) and I'm not sure they deserve all the blame here.

 

[DJMoore2011]

Life is not fair, people need to accept that. In a fair world we would have no hunger, no wars, both teams would win the games, Mr Toad and Horizons and World of Motion would still be here and there would be no vacant buildings in the parks or on the grounds of WDW.

Life is not like that. The bad apples ruin it for everyone every single time. While I understand your POV, simply doing nothing contributes to the problem. The guests that have to wait, is part of what I just suggested. So therefore the statement that Disney only lets on so many disabled guests at a time is kinda moot, as there is a system to deal with a line of disabled guests.

Having an escort and a disabled guest ride, is fair, since it has been stated they do not get on right away. But they do go to the front of the line, which I have no issue with. But having a disabled guest and a party of 4-20, is the issue. In this case the party should be waiting in line together while the disabled guest and escort wait at the boarding area for their party to arrive. I fail to see how this is so extreme. Only people who want to take advantage of the system would argue against the fairness of waiting one's turn.

So what if it take TWO care givers to help a disable guest get out of their wheelchair and into a ride??? Your then punishing the disabled guest once again because they need two people to move them. Yes I think 6 people per card is too many. But to say 1 to 1 is not enough when some need more then one person to lift them from wheelchair to ride and back out. Or do you expect low paid collage kids to attempted to move them?

 

[PolynesianPrincess]

I see abuse of the GAC every time I go to WDW. Last week, I saw a family of 5 exiting an attraction with one person in a wheelchair. The father was holding a GAC. As they proceeded to walk to whatever their next destination may be, one person said to another in the group "Do you want our turn in the wheelchair next?" The person said yes and they proceeded to change out who was sitting in the chair. Now, whether there was someone in the group that might need a wheelchair sometimes or not, it still kind of irked me that there could possibly be no person in that group who really needed that wheelchair OR GAC. It really is hard to tell when you don't know the situation.

Another instance I saw GAC card being abused was a couple trips ago. This one really stuck out in my mind because it was a clear situation where this group was taking advantage of having a GAC. A group of 6 people were waiting in the FP line in front of us for RNRC. The GAC was for a young boy, maybe 7 or 8. The group began discussing who would ride the ride and who was going to exit the "chicken exit" with the little boy since he would not be riding. It wasn't that he decided once they got in line not to ride but rather they knew before getting in line that he would not be riding. The fact that these people used this child's GAC to ride on the ride when they knew fully well he did not want to ride prior to getting in line made me furious. They made that child wait in line with them for a ride he was not going on, just so they could ride it without waiting. Makes me wonder how many other times they did this on their trip. I know getting angry about it solves nothing, but it just makes me sick that people take advantage of situations like this. We ALL paid to visit WDW, not just certain people. No one's vacation is more important or better than someone elses.

 

[Master Yoda]

Why is someone with spinal chord injuries, riding roller coasters, or bumpy rides?

About 1/2 of the rides on WDW are not thrill rides.

 

[bethymouse]

There are so many kinds of disabilities, we just can't judge people. However, there are some that you can blatently see taking advantage of the GAC cards, and other disability assistance ( such as wheelchairs, ECV's, and perhaps even strollers- but that's another thread altogether!). At an Orioles game yesterday, the disabled parking lots were FULL! That just shouldn't be! My Mom used her walker which thankfully has a seat as well to walk from the parking lots ( far away) to the gates. The disabled placards are also abused! It is sad really. I hope Disney is able to come up with a solution to this problem! My parents always wait in line. They use ECV's when in Disney, and we've never gotten a GAC card! Bottom line: What goes around, comes around!

 

[luv]

The handicapped parking is abused, too. A friend of mine drives around with her dead grandmother's plaque.

It is abused less, though.

Imagine if all you had to do was walk in and say, "I need a handicapped plaque" and they had to give you one.

I see abuse of the GAC every time I go to WDW. Last week, I saw a family of 5 exiting an attraction with one person in a wheelchair. The father was holding a GAC. As they proceeded to walk to whatever their next destination may be, one person said to another in the group "Do you want our turn in the wheelchair next?" The person said yes and they proceeded to change out who was sitting in the chair. Now, whether there was someone in the group that might need a wheelchair sometimes or not, it still kind of irked me that there could possibly be no person in that group who really needed that wheelchair OR GAC. It really is hard to tell when you don't know the situation.

I don't think this happens very often. You don't need a wheelchair to get a GAC. All you have to do is go in and say you need it. There is no reason to pay for it or be slowed down by using a wheelchair, so most people don't bother with all that.

 

[Black Pearl]

If handicapped people can't wait in a line of some sort, minus the rides where carts/chairs can't make the entrance, it begs question should they ride at all? If it is an anxiety issue, riding a dark/fast/loud ride wouldn't exactly ease that. If they have bodily issues, the same issues mentioned would be worse than just waiting. If it is a heat issue, EVERYONE could claim that. I've gone to the parks with family in carts and found it sort of silly. In fact we coined the phrase "having a handy can be dandy!" while there, even though they didn't want to ride the jarring e-ticket rides.

This isn't really an opinion formed by this story, though one wonders if alcoholism or a scraped knee would qualify after viewing the video... "I drink a lot... Gimmie a GAC cause I don't wanna wait in line till I can get my next dwinky... Oh and here's my 'guests'"

I do feel like handicapped people belong at WDW but the ride cutting is pointless unless it has to do with logistics. Make A Wish and stuff like that is a different thing for me personally too.

 

[rob0519]

Just logging and tracking ID's at GR would cut down on a significant amount of abuse.

I'm not sure how it would cut down the abuse, but my son received the equivilent of a GAC at Sea World last year and in order to get the pass, I had to sit down with a Guest Relations Rep. He put my name and License information as well as my son's name and State ID # into a database "for future visits". They never asked for any information regarding our need for the assistance. Maybe just the idea of having to identify yourself and put your name in a database would deter people?