Time for the war to begin.

[mikejs78]

But given the additions/replacements in the pipeline, and the fact that Disney continually wants to demand more and more days from visitors to keep them from splitting up their trips, the next step after the current additions are done is indeed a fifth gate

I still think more is needed in both AK and HS, even after the current things are completed. Both need at least one more land to offset what is there and make them real full-day/multi day parks. AK is close, I don't think DHS quite is even with the new additions. MK just needs some love and modernization, as does Epcot FW (although that's already announced). Then I think a fifth gate makes sense. Although, I could forsee a second round after the 50th where they do just that for AK/HS *and* add a fifth gate. The Disney of the 90s was able to..

 

[EricsBiscuit]

I still think more is needed in both AK and HS, even after the current things are completed. Both need at least one more land to offset what is there and make them real full-day/multi day parks. AK is close, I don't think DHS quite is even with the new additions. MK just needs some love and modernization, as does Epcot FW (although that's already announced). Then I think a fifth gate makes sense. Although, I could forsee a second round after the 50th where they do just that for AK/HS *and* add a fifth gate. The Disney of the 90s was able to..

It's all about supply and demand

 

[ford91exploder]

He either doesn’t get it or doesn’t want to. I went to Wharton and all my knowledge and explanation of it to him has been futile. He has a huge axe to grind with DIS management and he isn’t completely wrong. He’s just wrong about his position on buybacks in general.

There are good and bad implementations of capital return programs and he considers buybacks all the same...they aren’t. I’d call Disney’s average to decent and Apple’s a homerun.

Theoretically, you’re using money spent on capital return programs after all resources have been spent on running the business...it’s excess. Should Disney spend more on park expansion, etc? Sure, but I’ve tried to explain it’s not a one or the other scenario. It’s not like $10b on buybacks OR $10b on park expansion. A company this large is far more complex than most people care to understand, so I’ve given up.

Btw, you probably know all this...I’m just taking the opportunity to converse with someone who has a clue.

When a company cuts customer facing services and reduces product quality and spends nearly it's entire free cash flow as Disney does to fund it's buyback program or borrows money like AA did to fund it's buyback program it's a bad program. If Disney had a year of cash in the bank and did not draw out construction projects over half a decade to limit cash burn, I'd have a very different view of Disney's buyback program.

Apple is well positioned to do buybacks because it's cash on hand is so vast it really does not have a better use of capital, Personally I'd prefer a special dividend. but in Apple's case buybacks also ok.

Southwest also has a large buyback program but they too have lots of cash in the bank and are replacing aircraft as fast as Boeing can build them, Their buyback program also is not a cause for concern as they are investing in the business and not the stock price and they have excess capital which they are returning to the shareholders (me among them).

United's on the other hand is concerning because of the beat up junk they fly Like Disney investing in the stock price not the business

Fun fact - much of my compensation is stock based so I'm very familiar with buybacks, which my company does as well but in our case it's generally done to limit dilution of our stock and is roughly equal in magnitude to the stock based incentive plan.

Personally I prefer companies to return cash directly to investors through special dividends as that eliminates the moral hazard involved with share repurchase programs, Alternatively I would support a rule change that requires shareholders to vote on any share repurchase program as that would force leadership to deeply consider whether a share repurchase was the best use of the companies capital resources.

 

[Tavernacle12]

I still think more is needed in both AK and HS, even after the current things are completed. Both need at least one more land to offset what is there and make them real full-day/multi day parks. AK is close, I don't think DHS quite is even with the new additions. MK just needs some love and modernization, as does Epcot FW (although that's already announced). Then I think a fifth gate makes sense. Although, I could forsee a second round after the 50th where they do just that for AK/HS *and* add a fifth gate. The Disney of the 90s was able to..

Agreed. DHS needs another full Land post-Star Wars to be a true full day park (or, at least, it needs more rides in GE). AK can get by without a full land if they just add some dark rides (like, say, Lion King, Jungle Book, and Zootopia).
A fifth gate is inevitable. I mean, if they built it now it's not like it wouldn't be successful, but then the flaws at the other parks would just be even more visible (and, looking at what we're getting now, what is even the chance a fifty gate opens with a reasonable number of rides to begin with?).
I do think Uni getting a third gate will light a fire under Disney, unless Star Wara does such insane business all its own that they are seeing too many dollar signs to care.

 

[Pixieish]

Agreed. DHS needs another full Land post-Star Wars to be a true full day park (or, at least, it needs more rides in GE). AK can get by without a full land if they just add some dark rides (like, say, Lion King, Jungle Book, and Zootopia).
A fifth gate is inevitable. I mean, if they built it now it's not like it wouldn't be successful, but then the flaws at the other parks would just be even more visible (and, looking at what we're getting now, what is even the chance a fifty gate opens with a reasonable number of rides to begin with?).
I do think Uni getting a third gate will light a fire under Disney, unless Star Wara does such insane business all its own that they are seeing too many dollar signs to care.

Our first trip to HS was in 2000 and to me it feels as if the park has been going downhill ever since...it's just an empty shell of itself. It needs some SERIOUS TLC...and I agree - more than just TSL and SW:GE. It kills me all the stuff we never got to do there.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Universal is planning a park that will be in the running for best in the world (They appear to be on an IP buying spree). Plop that down next to the convention center with a CityWalk 2.0 that has a full blown version of Wicked, a 4 star "Golf Channel" Resort with a state of the art course, 4 more resorts and, of course, another water park. Throw in the Cirque and DreamWorks resorts coming to the former wet n wild land and the 10 or so Es & Ds coming to the existing parks and were getting somewhere.

And that is just phase one.

Universal is grooving on their own thing.

 

[bhg469]

Universal is planning a park that will be in the running for best in the world (They appear to be on an IP buying spree). Plop that down next to the convention center with a CityWalk 2.0 that has a full blown version of Wicked, a 4 star "Golf Channel" Resort with a state of the art course, 4 more resorts and, of course, another water park. Throw in the Cirque and DreamWorks resorts coming to the former wet n wild land and the 10 or so Es & Ds coming to the existing parks and were getting somewhere.

And that is just phase one.

Universal is grooving on their own thing.

This is pretty incredible stuff! It is about time the state side parks started to get people excited again. I am so optimistic for the future of both resorts but I still give universal most of the credit for sparking this renaissance.

 

[bclane]

Universal is planning a park that will be in the running for best in the world (They appear to be on an IP buying spree). Plop that down next to the convention center with a CityWalk 2.0 that has a full blown version of Wicked, a 4 star "Golf Channel" Resort with a state of the art course, 4 more resorts and, of course, another water park. Throw in the Cirque and DreamWorks resorts coming to the former wet n wild land and the 10 or so Es & Ds coming to the existing parks and were getting somewhere.

And that is just phase one.

Universal is grooving on their own thing.

If even half of that happens it will be insane.

 

[bhg469]

If even half of that happens it will be insane.

And still, some people will not go because it isn't Disney

 

[RHCP Mickey]

It's a bit harsh to claim that DHS won't be a full-day park post SWL opening. You'll have ToT, RnRc, Toy Story Mania, Slinky, multiple new Star Wars rides, Star Tours or its predecessor, the new Mickey ride, Frozen/Indy/BatB/Fantasmic/SWAGS or its progeny, and whatever other new time-eating activities that accompany the new lands. Seems like it'll be a challenge to hit most of those in one day, without expert FP usage or a really slow attendance day. Even though TSL and SWL have the potential to underwhelm a bit, I'm still very much looking forward to spending a full day at DHS in a couple of years.

 

[bclane]

And still, some people will not go because it isn't Disney

To each their own, but I really think they are missing out by skipping Uni altogether. Now I do believe that because of it's place in my childhood, nobody will ever beat Disney (for me personally), but what Universal has done and has planned is worth the time of anyone who loves themeparks imo.

 

[FettFan]

With Universal's purchase of an additional 100 acres, they now have enough land for 2 more gates, a new City Walk and more hotels. They will go ahead with this soon, so Disney must act now. Universal is serious about equalling what Disney currently has so the only way to keep it's lead is for Disney to start an all-out war.

Disney should buy Seaworld, build a 5th gate based on villans and add scare zones for Holloween and of course more hotel rooms. They need to do this now and not wait for Universals move. SeaWorld could be used both as an extra thing to do for people visiting WDW and Southern California and while also working as a regional park operator. It would be a win win for Disney and Seaworld.

Disney still has a major lead and can't afford to let Universal continue to gain on them. Taking these steps would not only add gates but go after Universal on their Halloween Horror nights without hurting the current Not so scary Halloween Party. The time is now for the real war to begin.

1. You vastly overestimate how much land 100 acres actually is.
The Magic Kingdom is 108 acres. Epcot Center is 300 acres. DHS is approximately 135 acres. Animal Kingdom is roughly 450 acres.
You can only get two parks and a new City Walk from it if both parks were rinky- operations that even Six Flags would not want to touch.

2. Disney will never buy Sea World. They have no reason to, as a. they already have The Living Seas at Epcot and the entirety of Animal Kingdom, b. It's nowhere near Disney property, c. SeaWorld is an entire franchise with locations spanning from Florida to San Diego, and d. Disney does not want to court controversy in the fallout from "Blackfish".

3. Disney will never do scare zones or mazes. They are not Universal or Knotts. If you know anything about Disney history, you will know they tried being overly scary with "Alien Encounter"....and then had to neuter it to be the more kid-friendly (and stupid) Stitch Encounter because of the number of parents who complained about it.

4. A Fifth Gate is not likely to happen anytime in the near future. End of story.

 

[bclane]

1. You vastly overestimate how much land 100 acres actually is.
The Magic Kingdom is 108 acres. Epcot Center is 300 acres. DHS is approximately 135 acres. Animal Kingdom is roughly 450 acres.
You can only get two parks and a new City Walk from it if both parks were rinky-**** operations that even Six Flags would not want to touch.

2. Disney will never buy Sea World. They have no reason to, as a. they already have The Living Seas at Epcot and the entirety of Animal Kingdom, b. It's nowhere near Disney property, c. SeaWorld is an entire franchise with locations spanning from Florida to San Diego, and d. Disney does not want to court controversy in the fallout from "Blackfish".

3. Disney will never do scare zones or mazes. They are not Universal or Knotts. If you know anything about Disney history, you will know they tried being overly scary with "Alien Encounter"....and then had to neuter it to be the more kid-friendly (and stupid) Stitch Encounter because of the number of parents who complained about it.

4. A Fifth Gate is not likely to happen anytime in the near future. End of story.

Just addressing number one in your post, I think the OPs point about the 100 acre purchase was that it is in addition to the 475 acres of expansion property they already have. So they do have a pretty big area to work with now.

Edit: Here's a link to an article where you can see what the property looks like. Strange shape...but lots of potential.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busi...niversal-orlando-property-20171030-story.html

 

[Disneyhead'71]

There is also some litigation tying up another 500 acres or so. It should be cleared up this month. If Uni gets what they want, they'll have close to 1000 acres.

 

[bclane]

There is also some litigation tying up another 500 acres or so. It should be cleared up this month. If Uni gets what they want, they'll have close to 1000 acres.

Whoa I didn't know about that. I was under the impression that the litigation was over the use of the land near the new 100 acres. Where is that other 500 acres located?

 

[Coaster Lover]

Whoa I didn't know about that. I was under the impression that the litigation was over the use of the land near the new 100 acres. Where is that other 500 acres located?

Yeah... I was under the impression that the land under current litigation was the 450 acres adjacent to the 100 acres that they had just acquired... I'm not seeing any other large Universal land purchases so I'd be curious as well...

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Whoa I didn't know about that. I was under the impression that the litigation was over the use of the land near the new 100 acres. Where is that other 500 acres located?

Universal has all the purple. They want all the green.

The court case is sometime this month, so we'll know soon.

 

[bclane]

Universal has all the purple. They want all the green.

The court case is sometime this month, so we'll know soon.

Wow, that is a beautiful sight to see right there! Holy Carp!

 

[Coaster Lover]

Universal has all the purple. They want all the green.

Thanks for the clarification! The fact that all of that "new" property would be more or less interconnected would really make for a nice chunk of land for them! Looking at Google Maps, appears that all of that "green" land is current undeveloped land, so I guess the litigation must either be with the current/previous landowner or possible with the county pertaining to building on "protected" land?

 

[FullSailDan]

Thanks for the clarification! The fact that all of that "new" property would be more or less interconnected would really make for a nice chunk of land for them! Looking at Google Maps, appears that all of that "green" land is current undeveloped land, so I guess the litigation must either be with the current/previous landowner or possible with the county pertaining to building on "protected" land?

I believe there is some wonkiness with the previous owner, how it was aquired, and what can be done with it because of the method. I remember hearing something about it on NPR otw to work one day.