Ticket price increase / FP+ changes coming?

[Animaniac93-98]

Yes... but I don't personally have ~$1 billion laying around to gift Disney so they can build new rides.

Disney would not need billions to build rides now if they had been building them regularly in the past 20 years.

WDW got a total of 4 new rides between 2006 and 2014 and New Fantasyland was largely a replacement for 20,000 Leagues.

 

[Purduevian]

But you do not have to excuse and defend their decision to spend billions on a system intended to stall capacity and increase crowding.

Where did I excuse or defend that decision? I thought we were talking about how available FP+ on highly sought after rides are to people that stay offsite or have APs... Of course I would rather have more rides than FP+... but that decision was made a long time ago and I'm trying to make the best out of what we have been given.

 

[homerdance]

In regards to legacy FP, the "I don't have to run around the parks collecting FP's" defense is somewhat irrelevant because you spend more time (before and during your trip) on MDE planning, reserving and then modifying your FP+ selections than the time it would actually take to walk to an attraction to get another FP.

Vacation time is so much more valuable to me and my family than time spent planning. if I can spend an hour, which is more then i actually spend, to be able to not have to run around the park and game the "old" system then it is worth it to me. And that hour is a fraction of my total time I spend preparing for vacation (transportation (flights/cars/etc) /hotels/time off/house sitting/budgeting/school etc.).

 

[lazyboy97o]

Disney would not need billions to build rides now if they had been building them regularly in the past 20 years.

WDW got a total of 4 new rides between 2006 and 2014 and New Fantasyland was largely a replacement for 20,000 Leagues.

I’m going to become a broken record on this, but I think it is very important that it be repeated, known and understood. The Magic Kingdom has less dining capacity today than 30 years ago. Less! For something that directly generates revenue. That makes absolutely no sense and yet here we are and people instead lecture about others should just do more research and plan better.

 

[easyrowrdw]

I'm still going to go with the defense that it doesn't take an extreme amount of time to use the fastpass system near its fullest potential, typically I could get something I wanted within the next 30 minutes (sometimes exactly what I wanted) with about 3-5 minutes of refreshing while waiting for something.

I agree. Setting up the initial plan for a day really doesn't take very long. I stole mine from Easy WDW and it's worked like a charm for the last few years. There's no need to pay for a service or try anything crazy.

And when refreshing in the park it usually doesn't even take me a minute to find something we can use. On our trip in December we wound up staying at MK far longer than we'd planned one day because we could so quickly find more and more passes. Particularly with small kids, FP+ and the app have been outstanding for us.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I mean I'm not smashing it every second while I'm at home or every second I'm in the park. I checked maybe about 10 times a day while at home, maybe one like every hour and half checking for like 30 seconds (far less time then I spend on this site ). While in the parks I did smash the app... while in line for a ride, waiting for others in my party in the restroom, or waiting for a show to start. I guess I could have instead played with the honey wall or the broken games in Space Mountain. Chances are I would have probably been on my phone anyway.

I'm still going to go with the defense that it doesn't take an extreme amount of time to use the fastpass system near its fullest potential, typically I could get something I wanted within the next 30 minutes (sometimes exactly what I wanted) with about 3-5 minutes of refreshing while waiting for something.

It sounds like you have had better luck than I have with refreshing. Sometimes I've had decent luck, but other times, not much.

Usually, come about 2-3pm, even with refreshing, I'm only able to get like Barnstomer, Philarmagic, and Dumbo. And Philarmagic is usually a walk-on at 3pm. I mean last month I spent a solid 45minutes refreshing, and not getting anything.


I am certain, for us, we covered more attractions per day with the old paper FP. For a solid 10 years, we hardly ever waited more than 20minutes for any attraction. And we often went over the holidays. Granted, if the parks were very busy, we took mid-day breaks.

We also often rode BTMRR and Space Mtn multiple times per day with either a FP or minimal waits.

Then again, for many years MK had awesome late night hours. Nothing quite like riding the MK Mtns over and over again at 1am.


Sigh.

 

[doctornick]

I’m going to become a broken record on this, but I think it is very important that it be repeated, known and understood. The Magic Kingdom has less dining capacity today than 30 years ago. Less! For something that directly generates revenue. That makes absolutely no sense and yet here we are and people instead lecture about others should just do more research and plan better.

Is this true though? With Skipper's Canteen and Diamond Horseshoe serving, they're reopened two of the shuttered places. That leaves Tomorrow Land Noodle Terrace and... Tortuga Tavern? Isn't the latter open most of the time now? (Maybe it is still seasonal).

But Be Our Guest is relatively large so I would think it could make up for the capacity of those places. Or at least it should be close. Were there other past food places that have been lost?

Edit: they have also added Gaston's Tavern. Which isn't much but also helps capacity.

 

[MrPromey]

I also don't understand all this garbage people are spouting about people expecting a great time on a spontaneous Disney trip. Disney has never been and will never be a destination that you could just spontaneously visit for a day or two and have a great time (APs aside). Even before MyMagic+, there was a significant amount of pre-planning involved. The people that are complaining about how much they have to pre-plan now are the same people that wouldn't have pre-planned before. It's just that now Disney is up front about the whole "you have to pre-plan" aspect. If you don't like planning things in advance, why are you even going to WDW? It's not like this is some brand new concept that didn't exist 10 years ago.

BigThunderMatt, I'm curious when you started going to Disney and what time of year because, yes, it once was possible.

King Stephan's (before they changed the name to match the castle), Golden Horseshoe (when it had real food the first time around) in the MK, San Angel Inn (back when tables weren't so jammed in, too), Teppan Edo, Restaurant Marrakesh, Rose and Crown, Le Cellier Steakhouse and Biergarten in Epcot, and Brown Derby, Primetime and the Sci-Fi Dine In* in Hollywood/MGM are all places we've dined in years past without any reservations prior to visiting.

If you never got to experience walk-up access to many of the park restaurants or at least in-park day-of reservations and the ability to get on most attractions as a walk-up without waiting an hour or more, I feel bad for you.

It really was as wonderful as people are saying and the change has, for the most part, happened within the span of time that I've been active on these very forums (well, and the ones that came before them - so a pretty big span, I guess).

Maybe if you had experienced it yourself, you'd understand the sentiment about how things are today from all that did.

Disney has responded to extra demand (much of which they've created themselves with new resorts, the explosion of DVC, and relentless marketing) over the last 10-15 years by developing systems to fit guests into the parks tetris-style with a process that actually gets people to use a fast pass for something like JIYI and push pre-booking rather than investing over the years on the parks to keep up with the demand that they were stoking.

Everything they're building and redoing today is an attempt to finally catch up to that - that's why you don't see them getting much credit for it from many of us. Yes, they're adding capacity but about a decade late and only after I'm guessing, they started to see enough of a dip in guest satisfaction to spook them into doing it.

Hopefully, things actually improve and current management doesn't just use it as a way to sell even more DVC and jam pack the parks even more.

I'm optimistic but not overly so, given this leadership's track record thus far.

*this one, for whatever reason, sometimes can still squeeze us in if we hit it at a really off time between normal lunch and dinner and don't mind being the odd ones filling up a car or stting on the patio furniture in the back.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Is this true though? With Skipper's Canteen and Diamond Horseshoe serving, they're reopened two of the shuttered places. That leaves Tomorrow Land Noodle Terrace and... Tortuga Tavern? Isn't the latter open most of the time now? (Maybe it is still seasonal).

But Be Our Guest is relatively large so I would think it could make up for the capacity of those places. Or at least it should be close. Were there other past food places that have been lost?

Edit: they have also added Gaston's Tavern. Which isn't much but also helps capacity.

Yes, it is true. In general, table service restaurants allocate more square footage per diner than a quick service venue. Turnover for a quick service venue is typically 20 minutes versus 60 minutes for table service. That means square foot to square foot, a quick service venue is typically going to have at least three times the capacity of a table service venue. Skipper’s Canteen only uses a portion of the Adventureland Veranda space and in a less efficient manner. Even adding tables at Cosmic Ray’s doesn’t help much as the kitchen was not also expanded to increase output and also reflects how the removal of seating around the park has hindered turnover. Aunt Polly’s also remains shuttered, sort of negating Gaston’s Tavern’s addition. Be Our Guest being full quick service would probably help create a definite gain even with the remaining lost space at the Adventureland Veranda and Tomorrowland Terrace, but we’re still talking about a park that has doubled in visitation over those years without any serious expansion of its dining capacity.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

BigThunderMatt, I'm curious when you started going to Disney and what time of year because, yes, it once was possible.

King Stephan's (before they changed the name to match the castle), Golden Horseshoe (when it had real food the first time around) in the MK, San Angel Inn (back when tables weren't so jammed in, too), Teppan Edo, Restaurant Marrakesh, Rose and Crown, Le Cellier Steakhouse and Biergarten in Epcot, and Brown Derby, Primetime and the Sci-Fi Dine In* in Hollywood/MGM are all places we've dined in years past without any reservations prior to visiting.

If you never got to experience walk-up access to many of the park restaurants or at least in-park day-of reservations and the ability to get on most attractions as a walk-up without waiting an hour or more, I feel bad for you.

It really was as wonderful as people are saying and the change has, for the most part, happened within the span of time that I've been active on these very forums (well, and the ones that came before them - so a pretty big span, I guess).

Maybe if you had experienced it yourself, you'd understand the sentiment about how things are today from all that did.

Disney has responded to extra demand (much of which they've created themselves with new resorts, the explosion of DVC, and relentless marketing) by developing systems to fit guests into the parks tetris-style with a process that actually gets people to use a fast pass for something like JIYI and push pre-booking rather than investing over the years on the parks to keep up with the demand that they were stoking.

Everything they're building and redoing today is an attempt to finally catch up to that.

Hopefully, they do.


*this one, for whatever reason, sometimes can still squeeze us in if we hit it at a really off time between normal lunch and dinner and don't mind being the odd ones filling up a car or stting on the patio furniture in the back.

^^^ This x1000. We had prime rib at King Stephan's while sitting at the table centered in the stained glass window, overlooking the carousel on our honeymoon. It was GLORIOUS...food was fab, too!

 

[rwdavis2]

Looks unnecessarily confusing and convoluted. That's nothing at all like MaxPass.

And if their tech can't handle the current system, what makes them think they can handle this?

Yes. Their IT systems and staff can barely keep the current MDE and FP+ systems up and running. Making a change will be a real mess.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

BigThunderMatt, I'm curious when you started going to Disney and what time of year because, yes, it once was possible.

King Stephan's (before they changed the name to match the castle), Golden Horseshoe (when it had real food the first time around) in the MK, San Angel Inn (back when tables weren't so jammed in, too), Teppan Edo, Restaurant Marrakesh, Rose and Crown, Le Cellier Steakhouse and Biergarten in Epcot, and Brown Derby, Primetime and the Sci-Fi Dine In* in Hollywood/MGM are all places we've dined in years past without any reservations prior to visiting.

If you never got to experience walk-up access to many of the park restaurants or at least in-park day-of reservations and the ability to get on most attractions as a walk-up without waiting an hour or more, I feel bad for you.

It really was as wonderful as people are saying and the change has, for the most part, happened within the span of time that I've been active on these very forums (well, and the ones that came before them - so a pretty big span, I guess).

Maybe if you had experienced it yourself, you'd understand the sentiment about how things are today from all that did.

Disney has responded to extra demand (much of which they've created themselves with new resorts, the explosion of DVC, and relentless marketing) by developing systems to fit guests into the parks tetris-style with a process that actually gets people to use a fast pass for something like JIYI and push pre-booking rather than investing over the years on the parks to keep up with the demand that they were stoking.

Everything they're building and redoing today is an attempt to finally catch up to that.

Hopefully, they do.


*this one, for whatever reason, sometimes can still squeeze us in if we hit it at a really off time between normal lunch and dinner and don't mind being the odd ones filling up a car or stting on the patio furniture in the back.

I'd widen my - old- ability to dine walk up style even wider than you. We generally dined without any reservations, and there were only a few places that were hard to get into without one: top floor of the Contemporary, the castle, 'Ohana, Le Cellier, and Victoria+Alberts.

Liberty Tree Tavern was also fairly popular. If we wanted to eat at LTT, we stopped by the podium in the morning.

Even when we went to WDW as group of 10, over holiday weeks.

Back then, only WDW insiders knew that there WAS a dining phone number you could call to make a reservation.

 

[MrPromey]

I'd widen my - old- ability to dine walk up style even wider than you. We generally dined without any reservations, and there were only a few places that were hard to get into without one: top floor of the Contemporary, the castle, 'Ohana, Le Cellier, and Victoria+Alberts.

Liberty Tree Tavern was also fairly popular. If we wanted to eat at LTT, we stopped by the podium in the morning.

Even when we went to WDW as group of 10, over holiday weeks.

Back then, only WDW insiders knew that there WAS a dining phone number you could call to make a reservation.

Ah, I forgot about LTT! That one we used to never have a problem getting into, even at mealtime! I actually thought maybe it wasn't that popular because of that but I guess compared to the castle, it makes sense where demand would flow.

That said, a party of 10 being able to do it is impressive. We were never more than six and usually four or less.

I know this must seem crazy to a lot of people on these boards but if you stop and think about it in terms of the caliber of food you're getting and compare it to most local markets, what normal restaurant - even a higher end one like Capital Grill - expects you to make reservations for an exact day and time six months out?

Popular chains like Cheesecake factory don't even take reservations.

If you are the typical once-in-a-lifetime guest, how much sense does it even make to be doing this when you've never been to WDW before, don't have a full grasp of the span of the property or what the food really is?

I'd compare that to people who come to the US from Europe who think they'll hop a short train from NY to LA and are shocked to discover the reality of how big our country is and I'd have to imagine the same kind of thing happens on a smaller scale with people who book ADR and don't realize how long it may take them to do that last attraction and get from the park they're in to the restaurant in a resort or other park.

Your options often being only ADR or mostly worse-than-chain fastfood (Diseny Springs possibly being the exception with both) is kind of ridiculous.

 

[erasure fan1]

I also don't understand all this garbage people are spouting about people expecting a great time on a spontaneous Disney trip. Disney has never been and will never be a destination that you could just spontaneously visit for a day or two and have a great time (APs aside).

Not true at all. My family has been vacationing in Florida for over 40yrs. We have had many trips we decided to leave the beach and go to Disney for a day or two or three. No planning outside of what park to go to and a basic game plan. And guess what, we would do everything. There was absolutely a time you could go for the day and have a great time. Was it still busy? Sure it was. But tons of prep work wasn't needed.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Ah, I forgot about LTT! That one we used to never have a problem getting into, even at mealtime! I actually thought maybe it wasn't that popular because of that but I guess compared to the castle, it makes sense where demand would flow.

LTT was also popular because it was a character meal. It wasn't WDW's first character meal ever, but I don't think there were many in the parks when it opened.

I agree with the rest of your post, too. I didn't always go with a big group, and we didn't always eat TS every day, but we just didn't have to worry about making reservations at any time of year.

I mean that's how much it didn't occur to most WDW to pre-book anything except their hotel/flight, rental car. Back then the BIG secret discount was to buy your park tickets before arriving, and you'd also get to bypass the ticket line at the park gate.

 

[Disneyson]

So you don't think abuse by CMs had anything to do with it...?

I think that CMs personally using paper FPs for themselves and friends is a negligible evil compared to the inability to change the entire mood of a vacation and create invaluable word-of-mouth, especially in today’s social media age.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

BigThunderMatt, I'm curious when you started going to Disney and what time of year because, yes, it once was possible....If you never got to experience walk-up access to many of the park restaurants or at least in-park day-of reservations and the ability to get on most attractions as a walk-up without waiting an hour or more, I feel bad for you.

1994. I'm aware of what things were like at the time in the days of pre-Fastpass and ADRs not being a necessity.

^^^ This x1000. We had prime rib at King Stephan's while sitting at the table centered in the stained glass window, overlooking the carousel on our honeymoon. It was GLORIOUS...food was fab, too!

Not true at all. My family has been vacationing in Florida for over 40yrs. We have had many trips we decided to leave the beach and go to Disney for a day or two or three. No planning outside of what park to go to and a basic game plan. And guess what, we would do everything. There was absolutely a time you could go for the day and have a great time. Was it still busy? Sure it was. But tons of prep work wasn't needed.

Cool. So all three of you sound like people that have been vacationing at WDW frequently for many many years. Do you know what demographic makes up 60% of annual attendance at the parks? First-time visitors. Meaning these are people who may only go once in their lifetimes and therefore need to maximize their time to make the most out of their experience, who could not just go in blind and leave without regrets because there's always the possibility they may never be back.

It's easy to look at the past with rose colored glasses when you have 40 years of experiencing the parks under your belt and knowing if you miss something the first time you can always come back. You're not the target demographic. For many, many people both then and now it's very much a now or never situation and if you don't prepare and instead just wing it, and I know many people that did just that for their first visit, you could walk away having a very negative experience with no intent to return.

 

[matt9112]

Reserve capacity for same day purchase.

Are you okay? There would ve so little FP+ and so little maxpass both programs would become far less valuable.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Are you okay? There would ve so little FP+ and so little maxpass both programs would become far less valuable.

Scarcity gives them value.

 

[matt9112]

Scarcity gives them value.

To monetize yes for guest satisfaction no.