Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion

[mickEblu]

You guys just need to sit in seats 4 and 5.

 

[1HAPPYGHOSTHOST]

Bunch of chickens. It's a water ride. You're supposed to get drenched. Don't like it, don't ride. I can't stand people who complain about getting soaked on a water ride. "I wanted to get wet but not drenched." waaa waaaa waaa. stay off the ride or ride in the back then. That is the point of the ride. I will gladly take the front seat everytime. Drench me head to toe and soak my shoes I'm here to have fun.

 

[SuddenStorm]

You guys just need to sit in seats 4 and 5.

And if you move your feet as far as possible to the sides on the drops your feet are usually pretty safe.

 

[JD2000]

You guys just need to sit in seats 4 and 5.

and lift your feet up higher.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

You guys just need to sit in seats 4 and 5.

The back seat rules don't apply if large people are sitting toward the front and it results in massive rogue waves that land directly on you. You get more drenched than Titanic.

 

[mickEblu]

The back seat rules don't apply if large people are sitting toward the front and it results in massive rogue waves that land directly on you. You get more drenched than Titanic.

Oh I’ve never been on the one in Florida.

 

[BasiltheBatLord]

The back seat rules don't apply if large people are sitting toward the front and it results in massive rogue waves that land directly on you. You get more drenched than Titanic.

This, I get so annoyed when people constantly repeat the myth about how certain seats get less wet than others. It's entirely dependent on the weight distribution throughout the log.

On the topic of wetness, the laughing place drop is definitely the scariest in the attraction.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I too was cursed with riding Splash and always having the water go *immediately* and aggressively to my shoes. NEVER during the final drop though; typically during that weird ramp portion or the roller coaster imitation section right afterward.

Meanwhile the parts of me I actually want to get wet stay comparatively dry.

Oh I’ve never been on the one in Florida.

Each version of the ride was subsequently less wet. You get pretty wet in Florida, but not to the point of it being uncomfortable and the water doesn't head directly for the bottom of the boat the way California's always has for me.

By contrast, the Tokyo version, at least in early September when it was still quite hot, only gets a few drops on you, extraordinarily mild from a water perspective, because Tokyo's guests still dress up for the parks and aren't interested in getting soaked.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

Should be renamed Tiana's Tidal Wave Mountain.

 

[Little Green Men]

Oh I’ve never been on the one in Florida.

The non single file logs make it a lot better

 

[socalifornian]

WDWs compartmentalization is da real mvp, DLs is wide open. We need sacrificial kids in the front

 

[EagleScout610]

Has anyone got a layout map for Disneyland's Splash? The only ones I can find are for WDW. I'm trying to do a potential layout for Frog Mountain

 

[shambolicdefending]

I've always believed that quality is more important than theme. If the ride is good, it's good. The source material doesn't matter so much.

I will badly miss the original Splash. But that's personal nostalgia. If they do justice to PatF, It won't be the end if the world.

 

[mickEblu]

I've always believed that quality is more important than theme. If the ride is good, it's good. The source material doesn't matter so much.

I will badly miss the original Splash. But that's personal nostalgia. If they do justice to PatF, It won't be the end if the world.

I agree with the sentiment but in a theme park we have themed lands so I’m not not sure it applies here. I mean sure I’d rather have an amazing ride based on IP than just a good original one but if they put the best quality Sci Fi Space ride in Place of Splash Mountain that obviously would be good.

Is an IP in and of itself a theme? I’m really asking. You could have a PatF ride that takes place in an old cemetery or one that completely takes place on the streets of New Orleans. I think the themes of Splash Mountain and the PatF ride they are planning are very similar based of the fact they are going to be working within the existing infrastructure and the movie contains all of the Bayou and critter elements. But that begs the question, am I confusing theme with setting? Can you always separate the two?

I feel like @lazyboy97o would have a good answer

 

[PiratesMansion]

I've always believed that quality is more important than theme. If the ride is good, it's good. The source material doesn't matter so much.

I will badly miss the original Splash. But that's personal nostalgia. If they do justice to PatF, It won't be the end if the world.

Ultimately, I would agree with you. However, I do feel like I've watched other theme parks (primarily but not exclusively regional ones of the Six Flags etc. variety) engage in these sorts of decisions before. And what I feel tends to happen is that the park will build one ride that is well received but out of theme, which then seems to vindicate the idea that theme doesn't matter, and in many cases this has been used to justify destruction of area and park identity on a larger scale. Most of the time, there will eventually be some addition that is incredibly disruptive to the mood/theme/area that has been established without being good enough in and of itself to justify those changes, and that's where you run into long term problems with cohesion and identity. It's happened to my home park (Six Flags Great America), to Knott's, DCA, and to many, MANY other parks.

Because PATF is relatively harmonious with the existing attraction and (in DL at least) the surrounding area, this won't be an example of that unless they do something egregious, but if it's already happened at DCA, there's nothing stopping them from doing it next door, and some might argue it's already happened with GE. It's a slippery slope that tends to be difficult to recover from in terms of a park integrity perspective, even if your average visitor couldn't care less. I do think that Disneyland is in a unique position in which people have always had to accept what should be absurd contradictions (castle at the end of a Main Street? The juxtaposition of HM and Splash so close together? Should Small World really be in Fantasyland given its message? Fantasyland Autopia? Looking for Nemo in a submarine?), a lot of which work because we are used to them rather than because they actually make sense. Given that, Disneyland particularly could prove to be uniquely able to withstand radical changes, or it could go the other way and the PTB could assume that because DL's contradictions have been so accepted by the public in the past that they can basically do whatever they want and people will love it.

 

[PiratesMansion]

In another vein, this Lindsay Ellis video (and sorry for sharing her videos so much, but I find her videos engaging and informative, and a lot of them deal with Disney in some fashion) really struck a chord in light of the Splash changes in looking at what can happen when reality and commodity clash, focusing primarily on how this manifests within the film "Saving Mr. Banks," but also extending a bit into other aspects of the Disney parks and brand, and how Iger's Disney, from the start, has been re-contextualizing a lot of classic Disney tropes to appeal to modern audiences, because the way consumers view Disney now has somewhat changed from how they viewed Disney for most of its existence; similarly, the way we view ourselves as a country/society inevitably has and will continue to change over time. Although the video is a few years old (2017), it feels remarkably prescient in predicting the sorts of discussions we've been having now about the Splash Mountain changes (although neither Splash or its source material are mentioned in the video) and about changes that may be coming down the line.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

In another vein, this Lindsay Ellis video (and sorry for sharing her videos so much, but I find her videos engaging and informative, and a lot of them deal with Disney in some fashion) really struck a chord in light of the Splash changes in looking at what can happen when reality and commodity clash, focusing primarily on how this manifests within the film "Saving Mr. Banks," but also extending a bit into other aspects of the Disney parks and brand, and how Iger's Disney, from the start, has been re-contextualizing a lot of classic Disney tropes to appeal to modern audiences, because the way consumers view Disney now has somewhat changed from how they viewed Disney for most of its existence; similarly, the way we view ourselves as a country/society inevitably has and will continue to change over time. Although the video is a few years old (2017), it feels remarkably prescient in predicting the sorts of discussions we've been having now about the Splash Mountain changes (although neither Splash or its source material are mentioned in the video) and about changes that may be coming down the line.

This is a great and thoughtful video, particularly the last 2-3 minutes. I think there is broad confusion around whether one’s personal nostalgia for the past necessarily equates to a personal acceptance of all the sins of the past (which I’d argue it certainly does not). A healthy dose skepticism of the actions of the past and healthy debate about the impact of the present is a net positive, with a shared goal of aiming for a better and more fair future for all. But viewing these media with a critical lens allows us to have these debates in an open an honest fashion, without assigning malicious intent to those that do feel connections to it.

If today’s social media reactionaries teach us anything in terms of their tendencies to sometimes over interpret the intentions of others, I think we do need to avoid the kind of moral absolutism or hopeless nihilism this type of logical fallacy leads to in the future, so I’m happy to see that this is being thought about on a deeper level.

 

[TP2000]

I'm going to put this here, although I think my original comments I need to apologize for were in some other thread.

In one of these Splash threads when the news broke a couple weeks ago, I was confident this was a slapdash response and I said Disney was lying when they said in the Parks Blog that this Tiana concept had begun development "last year". Yesterday I learned at a party that I was wrong about that, and WDI had in fact hatched this Tiana concept last year long before weeks of riots and looting and peaceful protesting swept across America in response to systemic racism and police brutality.

I need to protect the innocent here, but suffice it to say that there was a gentleman at the party who has been involved with WDI for many years and is in a position to know what he is talking about. (And no @Figments Friend it was NOT Mr. Baxter, whom I haven't seen in months since I took that sneaky photo for you after I ran into him shopping at the nearby Bristol Farms ). But it was someone who would know what they're talking about. And here's what I learned...

The Tiana remake of Splash Mountain concept was actually proposed and given some funding for development back in 2019. Part of the way WDI operates is they are constantly dreaming up new ideas for the parks; sometimes they are all new builds and concepts, but often they are more affordable remakes and repurposing of existing park facilities. WDI stays in business and keeps their staff employed by having projects that are funded by the Parks division, and without those projects big and small the work dries up and Imagineers get laid off. So it behooves WDI management to always have a steady stream of slick and exciting new projects available to lure Parks executives into spending money and investing in the various parks around the world. They need a pipeline of attractive projects to show Parks execs keep the work going.

That said, the Tiana project for Splash Mountain did not come about because of any noble attempt by WDI to achieve social justice by removing the Song Of The South characters and story, they simply weren't thinking about it back in 2019. WDI's original driving goals behind redoing Splash Mountain were business driven, because they knew that even before Bob Iger's 2020 comments on the film it was unlikely Burbank would ever reverse course and embrace the Song Of The South characters, and thus the characters would remain relatively unknown by parks audiences and no real emotional attachment to that story could be leveraged. There was a minor undercurrent in WDI that Song Of The South wasn't very PC, but it was not a major element to the 2019 proposal to retheme Splash Mountain.

The Tiana concept was chosen as a project worthy of active development because the proposal was able to play up the connections to New Orleans themed food and cuisine, and thus the Food & Beverage departments in the parks could offer Instagram worthy food and drink concoctions for sale. The driving force with Bob Chapek in charge of WDI and the Parks (as he was in 2019 when the proposal was presented and given initial development funding) is to drive revenue across multiple departments; a new parks project has to prove that it is an IP that can translate directly into increased sales in either merchandise, dining, or upcharge experiences, and preferably at least two of those things if not all three.

And so Tiana's story was seen as a way to sell the project by connecting it to dining locations in the parks that already exist (New Orleans Square) or can be re-themed to help support the project (Hungry Bear Restaurant and the aging Pooh store with historically declining sales in Critter Country).

So work had actually been bubbling along on this Tiana Mountain idea for the past year. I asked how this works in WDW because Splash Mountain there is smack in the middle of Frontierland. I was laughingly told that the Tiana project was created with Disneyland in mind, but like many projects it also gets added to WDW as an afterthought. Star Wars Land was designed specifically for Disneyland's current location, and they knew they could wedge it in somewhere in WDW too. The Disneyland setting alongside New Orleans Square and a re-themed Critter Country is the ultimate goal for the project and the artistic vision they are designing for, and later they'll just wedge it into WDW next to Thunder Mountain because no one in Orlando is going to care or give them grief about it.

The other thing I learned was that the entire concept is very early in its development. It won't be opening for years. Under normal circumstances, even if it had gotten the green light from Burbank last month this idea would not have been announced publicly or seen the light of day for at least another 18 months if not longer. But the current political climate and the Twitter mob forced the issue before the ride was ready to be announced. That is why there is only one single piece of artwork available, and it was created quickly as a very generic view of the existing log ride with some characters and visual elements overlaid onto it. The real ride is still subject to many revisions and alterations, so there's no telling what actually is going to happen inside the ride where the show actually takes place. But screens will be included in the new show, and many of the America Sings animatronics will be retired permanently while the budget requires that some get repurposed into Princess & The Frog characters. The gentleman had not heard that the ride system will be changed in any meaningful way in Anaheim. There's no money for that anyway.

The other info I learned from the conversation is that many, many other active WDI projects have been put on indefinite hold at all the parks outside Japan. The sober realization in WDI is that Burbank will need to conserve cash and resources for at least several years, even after the parks, movie studios, cruise line, ESPN, DVC and mass merchandising all get "back to normal" hopefully sometime in 2021. Some of these mothballed construction projects (Tron, Marvel, Toontown, hotels, Anaheim's Downtown Disney) will be sitting silent around the parks for a year or more before they resume work. WDI management is just happy that the Tiana project got announced publicly and the current political climate forced Burbank to commit to it, so at least there is some development work happening in Glendale. But there are many other projects in development that haven't been announced yet that just met their sad demise. Layoffs will be coming to Glendale this fall.

I think that about sums up a chatty conversation that went in several different directions.

Basically the Tiana project had been in development since last year, they actually weren't lying about that like I assumed. But this Tiana project was not initially created out of some noble call to Social Justice, but rather it was initially conceived in 2019 to sell more Instagrammable moments at the adjacent restaurants and gift shops. Pooh and Song Of The South are not hot sellers and are definitely not Instagrammable. Luckily for Burbank and Glendale, they could quickly reposition this Splash Mountain makeover concept as being guided by a noble and lofty goal to bring Social Justice to the magic kingdom and quickly squash an embarrassing Twitter campaign.

 

[CHOX]

I'm going to put this here, although I think my original comments I need to apologize for were in some other thread.

In one of these Splash threads when the news broke a couple weeks ago, I was confident this was a slapdash response and I said Disney was lying when they said in the Parks Blog that this Tiana concept had begun development "last year". Yesterday I learned at a party that I was wrong about that, and WDI had in fact hatched this Tiana concept last year long before weeks of riots and looting and peaceful protesting swept across America in response to systemic racism and police brutality.

I need to protect the innocent here, but suffice it to say that there was a gentleman at the party who has been involved with WDI for years and is in a position to know what he is talking about. (And no @Figments Friend it was NOT Mr. Baxter, whom I haven't seen in months since I took that sneaky photo for you after I ran into him shopping at the nearby Bristol Farms ). But it was someone who would know what they're talking about. And here's what I learned...

The Tiana remake of Splash Mountain concept was actually proposed and given some funding for development back in 2019. Part of the way WDI operates is they are constantly dreaming up new ideas for the parks; sometimes they are all new builds and concepts, but often they are more affordable remakes and repurposing of existing park facilities. WDI stays in business and keeps their staff employed by having projects that are funded by the Parks division, and without those projects big and small the work dries up and Imagineers get laid off. So it behooves WDI management to always have a steady stream of slick and exciting new projects available to lure Parks executives into spending money and investing in the various parks around the world. They need a pipeline of attractive projects to show Parks execs keep the work going.

That said, the Tiana project for Splash Mountain did not come about because of any noble attempt by WDI to achieve social justice by removing the Song Of The South characters and story, they simply weren't thinking about it back in 2019. WDI's original driving goals behind redoing Splash Mountain were business driven, because they knew that even before Bob Iger's 2020 comments on the film it was unlikely Burbank would ever reverse course and embrace the Song Of The South characters, and thus the characters would remain relatively unknown by parks audiences and no real emotional attachment to that story could be leveraged. There was a minor undercurrent in WDI that Song Of The South wasn't very PC, but it was not a major element to the 2019 proposal to retheme Splash Mountain.

The Tiana concept was chosen as a project worthy of active development because the proposal was able to play up the connections to New Orleans themed food and cuisine, and thus the Food & Beverage departments in the parks could offer Instagram worthy food and drink concoctions for sale. The driving force with Bob Chapek in charge of WDI and the Parks (as he was in 2019 when the proposal was presented and given initial development funding) is to drive revenue across multiple departments; a new parks project has to prove that it is an IP that can translate directly into increased sales in either merchandise, dining, or upcharge experiences, and preferably at least two of those things if not all three.

And so Tiana's story was seen as a way to sell the project by connecting it to dining locations in the parks that already exist (New Orleans Square) or can be re-themed to help support the project (Hungry Bear Restaurant and the aging Pooh store with historically declining sales in Critter Country).

So work had actually been bubbling along on this Tiana Mountain idea for the past year. I asked how this works in WDW because Splash Mountain there is smack in the middle of Frontierland. I was laughingly told that the Tiana project was created with Disneyland in mind, but like many projects it also gets added to WDW as an afterthought. Star Wars Land was designed specifically for Disneyland's current location, and they knew they could wedge it in somewhere in WDW too. The Disneyland setting alongside New Orleans Square and a re-themed Critter Country is the ultimate goal for the project and the artistic vision they are designing for, and later they'll just wedge it into WDW next to Thunder Mountain because no one in Orlando is going to care or give them grief about it.

The other thing I learned was that the entire concept is very early in its development. It won't be opening for years. Under normal circumstances, even if it had gotten the green light from Burbank last month this idea would not have been announced publicly or seen the light of day for at least another 18 months if not longer. But the current political climate and the Twitter mob forced the issue before the ride was ready to be announced. That is why there is only one single piece of artwork available, and it was created quickly as a very generic view of the existing log ride with some characters and visual elements overlaid onto it. The real ride is still subject to many revisions and alterations, so there's no telling what actually is going to happen inside the ride where the show actually takes place. But screens will be included in the new show, and many of the America Sings animatronics will be retired permanently while the budget requires that some get repurposed into Princess & The Frog characters. The gentleman had not heard that the ride system will be changed in any meaningful way in Anaheim. There's no money for that anyway.

The other info I learned from the conversation is that many, many other active WDI projects have been put on indefinite hold at all the parks outside Japan. The sober realization in WDI is that Burbank will need to conserve cash and resources for at least several years, even after the parks, movie studios, cruise line, ESPN, DVC and mass merchandising all get "back to normal" hopefully sometime in 2021. Some of these mothballed construction projects (Tron, Marvel, Toontown, hotels, Anaheim's Downtown Disney) will be sitting silent around the parks for a year or more before they resume work. WDI management is just happy that the Tiana project got announced publicly and the current political climate forced Burbank to commit to it, so at least there is some development work happening in Glendale. But there are many other projects in development that haven't been announced yet that just met their sad demise. Layoffs will be coming to Glendale this fall.

I think that about sums up a chatty conversation that went in several different directions.

Basically the Tiana project had been in development since last year, they actually weren't lying about that like I assumed. But this Tiana project was not initially created out of some noble call to Social Justice, but rather it was initially conceived in 2019 to sell more Instagrammable moments at the adjacent restaurants and gift shops. Pooh and Song Of The South are not hot sellers and are definitely not Instagrammable. Luckily for Burbank and Glendale, they could quickly reposition this Splash Mountain makeover concept as being guided by a noble and lofty goal to bring Social Justice to the magic kingdom and quickly squash an embarrassing Twitter campaign.

Chapek really does love his Instagram.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

I'll give them this. The concept art is better than the POTC concept "art" from a couple years ago.