Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion

[mickEblu]

I remember the announcement said they hadn't even done 3D scans of Splash Mountain yet for development of Frog Mountain.

I really feel like there is a possibility that they might do more work on the overlay, then find out that it is completely impractical to do because of how the ride was initially designed and built.

We can only hope. The odds are so slim of this overlay being half as charming as Splash Mountain not because the PATF IP is bad (I honestly think as far as IP goes it’s about as good a fit as you can get at DL if they focus on the right aspects of the movie) but because of who’s in charge and all of the other factors. Not to mention the extremely high bar set by Splash.

 

[SplashGhost]

We can only hope. The odds are so slim of this overlay being half as charming as Splash Mountain not because the PATF IP is bad (I honestly think as far as IP goes it’s about as good a fit as you can get at DL if they focus on the right aspects of the movie) but because of who’s in charge and all of the other factors. Not to mention the extremely high bar set by Splash.

I just don't think modern Disney could ever create an attraction as good as Splash Mountain. Something like Rise might be good now, but I highly doubt it will hold up to be a timeless classic in 10 or 20 years. Splash is timeless and would stay a great ride till the end of time.

 

[mickEblu]

I just don't think modern Disney could ever create an attraction as good as Splash Mountain. Something like Rise might be good now, but I highly doubt it will hold up to be a timeless classic in 10 or 20 years. Splash is timeless and would stay a great ride till the end of time.

Agreed. No chance in hell. Let’s just hope against all odds that it gets cancelled.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I remember the announcement said they hadn't even done 3D scans of Splash Mountain yet for development of Frog Mountain.

I really feel like there is a possibility that they might do more work on the overlay, then find out that it is completely impractical to do because of how the ride was initially designed and built.

What about how it was built? 3D scanning is not a prerequisite for work to begin or progress, especially show design work. 3D scans can help with the architecture and engineering but they're not required. As with any renovation the risk is not with what you can see but what you cannot see, the stuff hidden behind walls, floors and ceilings that was done differently than designed/recorded, was modified and never documented or has decayed. There seems to be this telephoning myth that Splash Mountain is this structure that cannot be touched and it's really not that different from anything else.

That and dl splash mountain doesn't get the love of refurbishments often so it's slowly falling apart in a sense. There will most likely be more work to do than they are prepared for.

It’s slowly falling apart because it is a building full of water.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Current WDI would definitely make it so the ride instead of having 70+ animatronics would instead have 3 animatronics that are "Super Advance and Realistic". With "state of the art" technology. They can then make a video bragging about how complex these animatronics that were entirely created by an outsourced company are.

Most of those animatronics don’t even work properly though. It’s unfortunate.

 

[tirian]

We can only hope. The odds are so slim of this overlay being half as charming as Splash Mountain not because the PATF IP is bad (I honestly think as far as IP goes it’s about as good a fit as you can get at DL if they focus on the right aspects of the movie) but because of who’s in charge and all of the other factors. Not to mention the extremely high bar set by Splash.

I agree. I love Splash Mt, yet I do like TPATF despite its significant story and music issues, and I do think TPATF deserves its own attraction somewhere else. (Anyone who has lived in New Orleans can tell you the movie was obviously made by Californians. Much of the culture, music, and accents are just plain wrong.)

However, I don’t trust current WDI to produce anything as charming or well done as Splash, especially the nearly perfect versions in Florida and Tokyo. What’s supposed to encourage us to believe WDI could pull it off? The ugly Cinderella Castle paint job, or the “storybook” overlay we almost suffered in SSE? The updates at POTC? The new, snowflake-friendly Snow White? Mickey’s Runaway RR? SWGE?

There’s a reason the classics have stuck around as long as they have, and it’s not because being old automatically makes them better. But the classic E-tickets were executed at a scale rarely seen today. Can you imagine what a John Hench-designed Tron Lightcycle coaster would look like from the outside?

 

[lazyboy97o]

However, I don’t trust current WDI to produce anything as charming or well done as Splash, especially the nearly perfect versions in Florida and Tokyo. What’s supposed to encourage us to believe WDI could pull it off? The ugly Cinderella Castle paint job, or the “storybook” overlay we almost suffered in SSE? The updates at POTC? The new, snowflake-friendly Snow White? Mickey’s Runaway RR? SWGE?

Castle of Magical Appliqué doesn't show that today's Disney can glue a bunch of "detail" onto a building?

 

[_caleb]

Seems to me that if Disney is determined to retheme Splash Mountain, there are a wide variety of options for how they might do it. Everything from literally putting new skins on the existing AAs, some new set dressings, and recording new audio to a complete overhaul, including rerouting the flume, changing the rock work, new ride vehicles, etc. And literally anything in between these extremes.

The challenge would be all the bigger-budget items that are necessary but not as noticeable. Structural changes, new AA mechanics, safety equipment, and the like can be super expensive, but not make an appreciable difference to guests.

So I imagine Disney is considering a variety of options. I'm sure they want to keep as much of what people love about the ride while changing whatever it is they think really needs to change.

I think Disneylanders tend to be more open to change (when it's done well) than WDWers, and I think Disneyland's New Orleans Square theming opens up some good possibilities for a positive change. If they do this right, WDW fans will change from "at least we still have our copy of the original!" (Tower of Terror) to "why does DL always get the best upgrades and we get left out?" (Indy, Pirates, IaSM, Space Mountain, etc).

 

[mickEblu]

Seems to me that if Disney is determined to retheme Splash Mountain, there are a wide variety of options for how they might do it. Everything from literally putting new skins on the existing AAs, some new set dressings, and recording new audio to a complete overhaul, including rerouting the flume, changing the rock work, new ride vehicles, etc. And literally anything in between these extremes.

The challenge would be all the bigger-budget items that are necessary but not as noticeable. Structural changes, new AA mechanics, safety equipment, and the like can be super expensive, but not make an appreciable difference to guests.

So I imagine Disney is considering a variety of options. I'm sure they want to keep as much of what people love about the ride while changing whatever it is they think really needs to change.

I think Disneylanders tend to be more open to change (when it's done well) than WDWers, and I think Disneyland's New Orleans Square theming opens up some good possibilities for a positive change. If they do this right, WDW fans will change from "at least we still have our copy of the original!" (Tower of Terror) to "why does DL always get the best upgrades and we get left out?" (Indy, Pirates, IaSM, Space Mountain, etc).

The less change the better for me. The one silver lining for me is that the flume layout most likely will not change. Meaning the pace, thrills and the interesting layout stay the same. The outdoor portions I would imagine would also be mostly unchanged

 

[tirian]

Seems to me that if Disney is determined to retheme Splash Mountain, there are a wide variety of options for how they might do it. Everything from literally putting new skins on the existing AAs, some new set dressings, and recording new audio to a complete overhaul, including rerouting the flume, changing the rock work, new ride vehicles, etc. And literally anything in between these extremes.

The challenge would be all the bigger-budget items that are necessary but not as noticeable. Structural changes, new AA mechanics, safety equipment, and the like can be super expensive, but not make an appreciable difference to guests.

So I imagine Disney is considering a variety of options. I'm sure they want to keep as much of what people love about the ride while changing whatever it is they think really needs to change.

I think Disneylanders tend to be more open to change (when it's done well) than WDWers, and I think Disneyland's New Orleans Square theming opens up some good possibilities for a positive change. If they do this right, WDW fans will change from "at least we still have our copy of the original!" (Tower of Terror) to "why does DL always get the best upgrades and we get left out?" (Indy, Pirates, IaSM, Space Mountain, etc).

Sorry, long-time DL fans tend to be infamously anti-change, but with good reason. WDI has tested some terrible concepts in California. Rusty TL and the Tarzan Treehouse come to mind.

TOT is an unfair example because DCA’s version was never as good as the original.

However, DL fans also tend to demand higher standards than WDW Cupcake Lovers, and every dark ride except HM is significantly better maintained in California.

Give and take

 

[_caleb]

The less change the better for me. The one silver lining for me is that the flume layout most likely will not change. Meaning the pace, thrills and the interesting layout stay the same. The outdoor portions I would imagine would also be mostly unchanged

Right. If the changes they make are minor, those who were more fans of the ride experience (vs. the storyline or characters) might not be too upset with the retheme.

 

[mickEblu]

Right. If the changes they make are minor, those who were more fans of the ride experience (vs. the storyline or characters) might not be too upset with the retheme.

Oh don’t get me wrong I’ll be upset no matter what but I believe that a good chunk of what made the ride repeatable will still be there for me. Unfortunately the stuff that made the ride a classic - the music, all the AAs, sets and vignettes will definitely not be there or most likely will not be there. The music is a huge loss. My thing is I want them to kind of view Splash Mountain as a brand. Keep the name even if you have to add something about PATF in there. Make this a 1:1 conversion as much as possible. I’d like a similar look and feel with all the sets and I’m hoping for less Princess more swamp and bayou/ animals. Basically give me the same sets and similar vignettes with different characters. Keep as many of the Marc Davis AAs as possible. Don’t go in there and gut the whole thing, take out most of the AAs and put up screens. Their financial situation leads me to believe the overlay would be more minor but who knows. If the flume layout stays the same then most likely most of the rest of my wish list falls in place.

And no boat on chikapin hill!

 

[Brer Oswald]

Seems to me that if Disney is determined to retheme Splash Mountain, there are a wide variety of options for how they might do it. Everything from literally putting new skins on the existing AAs, some new set dressings, and recording new audio to a complete overhaul, including rerouting the flume, changing the rock work, new ride vehicles, etc. And literally anything in between these extremes.

The challenge would be all the bigger-budget items that are necessary but not as noticeable. Structural changes, new AA mechanics, safety equipment, and the like can be super expensive, but not make an appreciable difference to guests.

So I imagine Disney is considering a variety of options. I'm sure they want to keep as much of what people love about the ride while changing whatever it is they think really needs to change.

I think Disneylanders tend to be more open to change (when it's done well) than WDWers, and I think Disneyland's New Orleans Square theming opens up some good possibilities for a positive change. If they do this right, WDW fans will change from "at least we still have our copy of the original!" (Tower of Terror) to "why does DL always get the best upgrades and we get left out?" (Indy, Pirates, IaSM, Space Mountain, etc).

Which is why I don’t think they’ll rush it (like many keep trying to speculate). If it’s a considerably cheaper product than the Brer Rabbit attraction in Disneyland (think FEA post Olaf, but stretched out), less people will want to see the Florida version change.

They can’t create a new JII scenario. They’d never hear the end of it.

 

[_caleb]

Sorry, long-time DL fans tend to be infamously anti-change, but with good reason. WDI has tested some terrible concepts in California. Rusty TL and the Tarzan Treehouse come to mind.

TOT is an unfair example because DCA’s version was never as good as the original.

However, DL fans also tend to demand higher standards than WDW Cupcake Lovers, and every dark ride except HM is significantly better maintained in California.

Give and take

Good points. It really does work both ways (DL fans both open to change but also protective of their beloved park.

I grew up going to DL. We were bummed about losing the PeopleMover, but that seemed as much about having it indefinitely closed than resistance to change. Same with the subs and Inner Space and even Country Bears. But maybe that's just the circles I ran in.

And, to your point, people certainly weren't on board with EVERY change!

 

[Californian Elitist]

Seems to me that if Disney is determined to retheme Splash Mountain, there are a wide variety of options for how they might do it. Everything from literally putting new skins on the existing AAs, some new set dressings, and recording new audio to a complete overhaul, including rerouting the flume, changing the rock work, new ride vehicles, etc. And literally anything in between these extremes.

The challenge would be all the bigger-budget items that are necessary but not as noticeable. Structural changes, new AA mechanics, safety equipment, and the like can be super expensive, but not make an appreciable difference to guests.

So I imagine Disney is considering a variety of options. I'm sure they want to keep as much of what people love about the ride while changing whatever it is they think really needs to change.

I think Disneylanders tend to be more open to change (when it's done well) than WDWers, and I think Disneyland's New Orleans Square theming opens up some good possibilities for a positive change. If they do this right, WDW fans will change from "at least we still have our copy of the original!" (Tower of Terror) to "why does DL always get the best upgrades and we get left out?" (Indy, Pirates, IaSM, Space Mountain, etc).

Disneyland fans, specifically the purist, hardcore ones, screamed when the Main Street Cinema was temporarily turned into a shop.

We don’t really welcome change, unless something is being added without anything being taken away, and even that’s suspicious sometimes.

 

[Brer Oswald]

Disneyland fans, specifically the purist, hardcore ones, screamed when the Main Street Cinema was temporarily turned into a shop.

We don’t really welcome change, unless something is being added without anything being taken away, and even that’s suspicious sometimes.

I really do think Mission Break our was the exception, not the rule. The only reason being that the Florida Tower is objectively the better experience.

And even then, the announcement received the most backlash out of any previous change (mostly thanks to the Internet).

 

[el_super]

However, DL fans also tend to demand higher standards than WDW Cupcake Lovers, and every dark ride except HM is significantly better maintained in California.

It is far more intricate than that. There is a duality that is hard to define about Disneyland fans that causes them to fall into many different shades of grey between two distinct points. Disneyland's core audience has always been so-cal locals, with quick and easy access to the park. Only a small subset of that audience are what you would consider "fans" (like the type to complain about historical changes). So you end up with a small vocal group that hates to see anything change. But you also end up with a much larger group of regulars that visit frequently and demand new things to see. That group doesn't care so much about history and tradition.

It's a weird set of circumstances that causes two+ hour lines for Haunted Mansion Holiday, and a Lincoln exhibit that has been closed three times and always brought back, but plays to an almost always empty theater.

I really do think Mission Break our was the exception, not the rule. The only reason being that the Florida Tower is objectively the better experience.

It's not. I much preferred DCA's Tower and even the Tokyo one was better than Florida's. Florida's desperately needs an update.

And even then, the announcement received the most backlash out of any previous change (mostly thanks to the Internet).

Yeah but it still opened to 2+ hour waits and pretty good reviews. Disneyland fans are weird.

 

[mickEblu]

It is far more intricate than that. There is a duality that is hard to define about Disneyland fans that causes them to fall into many different shades of grey between two distinct points. Disneyland's core audience has always been so-cal locals, with quick and easy access to the park. Only a small subset of that audience are what you would consider "fans" (like the type to complain about historical changes). So you end up with a small vocal group that hates to see anything change. But you also end up with a much larger group of regulars that visit frequently and demand new things to see. That group doesn't care so much about history and tradition.

It's a weird set of circumstances that causes two+ hour lines for Haunted Mansion Holiday, and a Lincoln exhibit that has been closed three times and always brought back, but plays to an almost always empty theater.




It's not. I much preferred DCA's Tower and even the Tokyo one was better than Florida's. Florida's desperately needs an update.



Yeah but it still opened to 2+ hour waits and pretty good reviews. Disneyland fans are weird.

You should replace “That larger group of locals that wants to see new things” with just human beings in general or Disney feeling the need to offer new things to keep numbers up and or hit short term goals. I’ve lived in So Cal all my life and never heard one person, family member or friend say “if Disney wants me to go back to Disneyland they need to build a new ride or overlay Splash Mountain.” Disneyland is a cultural institution here. New Orleans Square alone is enough to make the large majority of people you are describing happy for a lifetime. Yes people and in this case APs can get bored if they go too much but as we ve seen popcorn buckets and seasonal food is enough to bring in the hordes. Overlays like GOTG:MB and Pixar Pier are useless and a waste of resources and don’t even moved the needle as much as some seasonal food. Hell, people were more excited about Christmas time decorations than Galaxies Edge last year. And rightfully so.

Do you even live in Southern California?

 

[SuddenStorm]

You should replace “That larger group of locals that wants to see new things” with just human beings in general or Disney feeling the need to offer new things to keep numbers up and or hit short term goals. I’ve lived in So Cal all my life and never heard one person, family member or friend say “if Disney wants me to go back to Disneyland they need to build a new ride or overlay Splash Mountain.” Disneyland is a cultural institution here. New Orleans Square alone is enough to make the large majority of people you are describing happy for a lifetime. Yes people and in this case APs can get bored if they go too much but as we ve seen popcorn buckets and seasonal food is enough to bring in the hordes. Overlays like GOTG:MB and Pixar Pier are useless and a waste of resources and don’t even moved the needle as much as some seasonal food. Hell, people were more excited about Christmas time decorations than Galaxies Edge last year. And rightfully so.

Do you even live in Southern California?

Disneyland hit their highest annual capacity ever marketing an anniversary that's not that noteworthy (60? Really?) with a new parade, fireworks show, merchandise, and some minor refreshes to classic attractions. When they hadn't built a new E ticket since '95.

Heck, World of Color starring NPH was really just a "Look at how great the park across the plaza is!".

Star Wars getting an entire new land in Disneyland flopped. It didn't create buzz, it didn't create crowds, and it didn't do anything to gain the park new fans.

People like good ole' fashioned Disneyland. It sells. Does it need to be adapted and improved over time? Of course! But Disneyland is the star- and everything else, even DCA, is ancillary to that and always will be.

That is one benefit to DCA- they can do whatever the heck they want over there to generate 'new attractions' and stuff, giving them much more flexibility to keep Disneyland park pure while still marketing to those who need new attractions to book trips.

 

[el_super]

Overlays like GOTG:MB and Pixar Pier are useless and a waste of resources and don’t even moved the needle as much as some seasonal food.

Yeah but that's kind of the point I was making: you can say they didn't move the needle attendance wise, but that also means removing Tower of Terror and Screamin had absolutely no negative impact either. People complain about things being removed, but it doesn't seem to stop the core audience from attending.