Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion

[SuddenStorm]

That reminds me of a thought I had. And forgive me if this has already been discussed as I have only popped into this thread about once per month or so. But...

I have long thought, and many folks tend to agree, that the only cloned ride at both WDW and Disneyland that was actually better at WDW was Splash Mountain. WDW's version got slowed down, paced better, set design and dialogue explained the story better, etc. There's actually a plot at WDW's Splash, whereas at Disneyland you kind of had to Google it to learn what was going on. And in most of the 90's we didn't have the Internet, so I had no idea what the heck Splash Mountain was about until I went on WDW's version.

It is fascinating that Disney decided to ditch the traditional log flume and go with a more Pirates style flume for WDW's Splash.

But what if Disneyland's version of Tiana matches WDW's version when it comes to ride assessments? That would mean that Disneyland no longer had that one ride that was better at WDW. Instead, Disneyland would have rides that were clearly better than WDW or were at least on the same level of goodness.

One has to worry that WDI isn't adept enough at cloning this attraction, and won't compensate for the inherent differences in the ride system- creating a ride that works better in WDW than DL, or vice versa. I have to imagine a lot of this is gonna be copy/paste, and not differently designed for each iteration of the attraction. This will be to the detriment of both rides.

So, a win for Disneyland? I would hope they're doing this right and will repace Disneyland's ride system a bit.

Disneyland is losing one of the best weenies in the park, and a facade that's about as iconic as an attraction facade can be- for a generic dirt mound with a water tower that would be at home in any regional theme park in the country. This is an inherent downgrade, and that's before we get into the area music and other impacts on the feel of that half of the park. Disney's fighting an uphill battle here.

 

[Rich T]

Should make a great setting for the finale! However, it further makes me wish that the French Market was being reintroduced as a new bistro that Tiana was opening. It strikes me as odd, in the same way Radiator Springs is a land and inside a ride, to have incongruent doppelgangers in proximity.

Agree that this should be a fun finale setting.

But regarding RSR: I’m guessing 99 percent of Radiator Springs riders have no problem with the town appearing inside and outside the ride. “Incongruent doppelgangers in proximity” is really not a criticism I imagine most people mutter as they disembark (as awesome a phrase as that is). Radiator Springs really has to appear on the ride; where else could they take guests that’s iconic to the franchise? It’s the one setting everyone wants to see the animatronic versions of the characters living their lives in. Sheriff’s behind his billboard. The shopkeepers are in their shops. Sally and Lightning are in the place both have made their home— And Radiator Springs becoming Lightning’s home is the whole point of “Cars.” That’s all that matters. Once you enter the show building on a dark ride, you’re being told a story. Locations, distances, and the flow of time can be twisted and rearranged in any way that helps tell the story.

Other allowed liberties include Doc Hudson being alive in the ride and dead in the exterior Town. That right there is an indication that the ride is a story being spun separate from the exterior placemaking. And neither Lightning nor Mater seem to be freaked out that their town has been invaded by nonmechanical bipedal life forms.

 

[Rich T]

The riverboat could have been removed out of laziness & cheapness.

What they put in its place could be much cheaper and easier to maintain.

From the start of this removal of Splash Mountain, I really thought it was about COSTS SAVING camouflaged as social justice.

How’s about we wait to see the finished ride before casting judgement? If they come up with a great looking and dramatically effective way to present a finale that also happens to be easier to maintain… that’s not a problem. Cost saving can be done well. If it sucks, that’s another matter. But give them a chance.

 

[Rich T]

I wish they reused the river boat and had Tiana and friends celebrate Madi Gras on it. It's the perfect setting for a lively finale, I mean that's how it was in Splash.

It might simply be a matter of character scale. I’m guessing there are going to be many near-full-size human figures in the finale, which would only draw attention to the riverboat’s relatively tiny size.

 

[Californian Elitist]

How’s about we wait to see the finished ride before casting judgement? If they come up with a great looking and dramatically effective way to present a finale that also happens to be easier to maintain… that’s not a problem. Cost saving can be done well. If it sucks, that’s another matter. But give them a chance.

Exactly. We don’t even know if that tweet is accurate or not.

 

[FerretAfros]

If the riverboat is in fact being removed, this may be a good time to reminisce about how, like so many other record-setting elements of the ride's original design that have since been forgotten, the Zip-A-Dee Lady herself held a record at the time: it was the largest moving prop in any Disney ride (a record that I have to believe now belongs to the false walls/ceiling in Indiana Jones Adventure's rolling boulder room).

It was so large that it was actually one of the very first scenic elements on site. It arrived in April 1988 shortly after construction had gone vertical, before the mountain had really developed its now-iconic shape and structure, before the pedestrian bridges at the base of the mountain were installed, and while earthmoving was still occurring. It was brought onto site prefabricated on a flatbed truck (which presumably limited its size by what could fit on public roadways)...

...moved into place within the structure...

...and then the building was enclosed and the mountain was finished around it.

Photos (and so many more from this fascinatingly complex project squeezed into a relatively tiny footprint within the park) from:

Mojave33

Explore Mojave33’s 108 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

One has to worry that WDI isn't adept enough at cloning this attraction, and won't compensate for the inherent differences in the ride system- creating a ride that works better in WDW than DL, or vice versa. I have to imagine a lot of this is gonna be copy/paste, and not differently designed for each iteration of the attraction. This will be to the detriment of both rides.

Given everything we've seen about the redo and WDI's overall approach to clones being true clones in recent years, I would expect they're trying to save some money and are treating both attractions as essentially identical, despite obvious differences in vehicle speeds, seating configuration and sightlines, scene size and layout, and pacing of the ride's most intense moments.

I suspect the new version will be more in line with WDW's scene approach of having a few "hero" AAs to draw your attention without as much movement elsewhere in the scenes, since there's not a stockpile of ready-made figures waiting for new homes. WDW's Splash already suffered from that approach with several scenes that feel void and lifeless (notably prior to the dip-drop, which seemed to be an empty corridor of Brer homes with nobody home); DL's open interconnected scenes will probably feel even more bare in comparison, without the sneak peeks of motion from adjoining areas.

As is the case with most WDI projects lately I'm sure the level of detail on the figures will be great, but such that they can't be fully appreciated while zipping past into empty scenes elsewhere in the ride. Modern WDI seems to be great at layering on superfluous details in specific areas while ignoring the bigger picture; they can't create a forest for the trees.

If the music loop changes to WDW's Pirates are any indication (still inappropriately in place 15+ years after the Jack Sparrow changes), I fully expect WDI will try to use the same scenic elements in both version of the ride, likely to the detriment of at least one (if not both) rides. However, in the case of Splash Mountain, I expect they'll use the WDW version as the baseline, if for no other reason than it has fewer AAs to begin with, and it's first in line in the construction timeline, so it's the cheaper and easier route.

 

[Too Many Hats]

But what if Disneyland's version of Tiana matches WDW's version when it comes to ride assessments? That would mean that Disneyland no longer had that one ride that was better at WDW. Instead, Disneyland would have rides that were clearly better than WDW or were at least on the same level of goodness.

This is my perspective as well. MK’s Splash was a masterpiece; IMO one of Imagineering’s greatest achievements. With all due respect to Carousel of Progress, People Mover, and Country Bear Jamboree, Splash was the reason to visit MK as a West Coaster.

I’m optimistic Tiana will be a well-executed attraction, but I’ll be shocked if Disney builds two radically different versions like they did 30 years ago (despite the obvious differences in infrastructure).

Definitely a win for Disneyland.

 

[Too Many Hats]

One has to worry that WDI isn't adept enough at cloning this attraction, and won't compensate for the inherent differences in the ride system- creating a ride that works better in WDW than DL, or vice versa. I have to imagine a lot of this is gonna be copy/paste, and not differently designed for each iteration of the attraction. This will be to the detriment of both rides.

Yeah, I don’t expect 2023 WDI to compensate for the different ride systems. However, it’s possible this will only hurt MK’s version, which is much slower paced and will provide guests more opportunity to notice dead space between AAs / any other potential thematic deficiencies or shortcuts taken by WDI. Any deficiencies in Disneyland’s version will be less noticeable to guests speeding by, focusing on not getting soaked.

Pure speculation, of course. Time will tell.

 

[TP2000]

If the riverboat is in fact being removed, this may be a good time to reminisce about how, like so many other record-setting elements of the ride's original design that have since been forgotten, the Zip-A-Dee Lady herself held a record at the time: it was the largest moving prop in any Disney ride (a record that I have to believe now belongs to the false walls/ceiling in Indiana Jones Adventure's rolling boulder room)....

God love you, my man. What a fascinating and well researched post.

We've never met in real life (unless you were at the a.d.d meets in the Hub just after Clinton was re-elected), but we've been on message boards together for decades now.

And so this is as good a time as any to say... Thank you!

 

[TP2000]

It is fascinating that Disney decided to ditch the traditional log flume and go with a more Pirates style flume for WDW's Splash.

I can only assume that was a natural progression for Tony Baxter and the entire WDI team. Up until that time, their point of reference was just Knott's Berry Farm's log ride, the grand opening in 1969 officiated by John Wayne which Tony attended as a youth. (Summoning @Figments Friend to correct me if my memory is failing on that Trivial Pursuit pie piece)

But after a couple years of operation at Disneyland, they probably realized it was okay to "think outside the box" and reimagine what a traditional "log ride" could be. Back when Michael Eisner was still a Good Guy, and they still could spend the money to do things right.

And this is my cue to say my usual thing... But Splash Mountain got even better by the time they built it at Tokyo Disneyland! It wasn't as big of a leap as Disneyland to WDW was, but it was a noticeable improvement and upgrade to an already great ride. That's why I haven't really been involved much in this thread, and only pop in to make fun of their latest Disney Parks Blog post about it. Because I know the best version of the ride is still operating daily in Japan, at a level of showmanship the American parks could never hope to achieve now.

And that's just a Singapore Airlines 777 flight away, once Japan recovers psychologically from Covid. (They're far behind the times there.)

One has to worry that WDI isn't adept enough at cloning this attraction, and won't compensate for the inherent differences in the ride system- creating a ride that works better in WDW than DL, or vice versa. I have to imagine a lot of this is gonna be copy/paste, and not differently designed for each iteration of the attraction. This will be to the detriment of both rides.

Agreed. But I have to think that the hard-brained engineers on the Imagineering team, those who work in the hard science of throughput and hydrology and cubic feet per minute, will win out over the softer and fly-by-night perspective of the HR managers assigned to ensure "Inclusion" in a theme park log ride.

I mean, maybe the talented engineers and artists and science-based professions really have all been replaced by HR managers puking up pablum for Likes. But something tells me that there's enough real Imagineers to overrule them, and the right decisions will be made for this new ride on both coasts.

 

[wdrive]

Exactly. We don’t even know if that tweet is accurate or not.

I’m not sure why you (amongst others) are so against any negative discussion for this ride. People can discuss aspects of the attraction that they don’t like, you don’t need to shut down all discussion that does not praise the attraction. You can disagree with them all day if you want but practically telling people that their discussions are not valid is ridiculous

 

[Rich T]

I’m not sure why you (amongst others) are so against any negative discussion for this ride. People can discuss aspects of that attraction that they don’t like, you don’t need to shut down all discussion that does not praise the attraction. You can disagree with them all day if you want but practically telling people their discussions are not valid is ridiculous

But now you’re saying that criticizing is ok, but it’s not ok to criticize criticizers. But it is ok; that’s what discussion is. And it’s ok to criticize critics of criticizers, which is what you’re doing, and it’s all part of Disneydemocracy, so here I am criticizing critics of critics of criticizers.

By all means, people should voice their concerns, dislikes and criticisms—but absolutely expect some response, pushback and alternate viewpoints, because that’s what forums are for, after all.

 

[Rich T]

I can only assume that was a natural progression for Tony Baxter and the entire WDI team. Up until that time, their point of reference was just Knott's Berry Farm's log ride, the grand opening in 1969 officiated by John Wayne which Tony attended as a youth. (Summoning @Figments Friend to correct me if my memory is failing on that Trivial Pursuit pie piece)

But after a couple years of operation at Disneyland, they probably realized it was okay to "think outside the box" and reimagine what a traditional "log ride" could be. Back when Michael Eisner was still a Good Guy, and they still could spend the money to do things right.

And this is my cue to say my usual thing... But Splash Mountain got even better by the time they built it at Tokyo Disneyland! It wasn't as big of a leap as Disneyland to WDW was, but it was a noticeable improvement and upgrade to an already great ride. That's why I haven't really been involved much in this thread, and only pop in to make fun of their latest Disney Parks Blog post about it. Because I know the best version of the ride is still operating daily in Japan, at a level of showmanship the American parks could never hope to achieve now.

And that's just a Singapore Airlines 777 flight away, once Japan recovers psychologically from Covid. (They're far behind the times there.)



Agreed. But I have to think that the hard-brained engineers on the Imagineering team, those who work in the hard science of throughput and hydrology and cubic feet per minute, will win out over the softer and fly-by-night perspective of the HR managers assigned to ensure "Inclusion" in a theme park log ride.

I mean, maybe the talented engineers and artists and science-based professions really have all been replaced by HR managers puking up pablum for Likes. But something tells me that there's enough real Imagineers to overrule them, and the right decisions will be made for this new ride on both coasts.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I think I read an interview a long time ago in which it was mentioned that Tokyo Disneyland was the reason they dropped the single file log seating. Imagineers had been told that the intimate single file seating style didn’t mesh well with Japanese social etiquette, and that was the start of the development of the two-across log system, which ended up being chosen for both WDW and Tokyo.

 

[TP2000]

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I think I read an interview a long time ago in which it was mentioned that Tokyo Disneyland was the reason they dropped the single file log seating. Imagineers had been told that the intimate single file seating style didn’t mesh well with Japanese social etiquette, and that was the start of the development of the two-across log system, which ended up being chosen for both WDW and Tokyo.

Knowing how conservative the Japanese culture is, that would make a lot of sense.

I'd forgotten that the WDW and Tokyo versions opened so closely together. But you're right. And I bet the Japanese sensibility of properness in public played a big part in changing the logs into log-shaped boats.

But knowing how immaculate and expertly maintained the Tokyo version is, it makes the moldy and poorly maintained status of the WDW version for the past decade plus even more inexcusable. As if WDW needed another kick while they're down, but it's the obvious truth.

 

[wdrive]

But now you’re saying that criticizing is ok, but it’s not ok to criticize criticizers.

Absolutely not. Healthy discussion of our various viewpoints is the whole point of this website. Please discuss away with me.

What I’ve read and been told multiple times in this thread is to stop with my negative viewpoint because no one’s been on the ride yet. That’s not discussion that’s a command to be silent because you don’t like the view that is being presented.

‘How’s about we wait to see the finished ride before casting judgement?’ I believe was from you. So what do you want to happen in this forum until the ride opens? Happy, wonderful statements of how great it’s going to be and nothing else?

 

[Californian Elitist]

I’m not sure why you (amongst others) are so against any negative discussion for this ride. People can discuss aspects of the attraction that they don’t like, you don’t need to shut down all discussion that does not praise the attraction. You can disagree with them all day if you want but practically telling people that their discussions are not valid is ridiculous

All I indicated was that this “news” isn’t confirmed. I was responding to @Rich T, who responded to someone assuming the riverboat will be “removed out of laziness and cheapness.” That’s an assumption based on, again, something that hasn’t been confirmed. We have ZERO proof.

You continue to misunderstand my posts and a few others. I’ve said countless times that people can post as they please, but they should be prepared for a counter. I’m not sure why that’s a bit difficult for you to understand.

No one is trying to stop all the negative chatter. Trust me, I’m sure we’re all aware that’s never going to happen. What some of us are doing, however, is simply challenging the negative chatter and the stuff that doesn’t make sense in our minds, like taking a piece of information that hasn’t been confirmed and running away with it. It appears that challenging the negativity and such, to you and maybe a few others, means we’re trying to shut you and others up. We’re not. If you can express your opinions freely, then we can, too.

I’ve said this many times, and I’ll say it again. I’m going to keep calling out posts and challenging them. It’s something to get used to. If you have a problem with that, then I don’t know what to tell you.

 

[Californian Elitist]

By all means, people should voice their concerns, dislikes and criticisms—but absolutely expect some response, pushback and alternate viewpoints, because that’s what forums are for, after all.

Period.

 

[Rich T]

Absolutely not. Healthy discussion of our various viewpoints is the whole point of this website. Please discuss away with me.

What I’ve read and been told multiple times in this thread is to stop with my negative viewpoint because no one’s been on the ride yet. That’s not discussion that’s a command to be silent because you don’t like the view that is being presented.

‘How’s about we wait to see the finished ride before casting judgement?’ I believe was from you. So what do you want to happen in this forum until the ride opens? Happy, wonderful statements of how great it’s going to be and nothing else?

“How’s about” is meant as a suggestion, not an order. I post TONS of criticisms about Disney here, but I try to keep most of my criticisms for finished disappointments. (And there are no shortage of those.) If I do point out concerns about works in progress, I do appreciate feedback about why another fan might think I’m right or wrong.

You expressed concern about Tiana’s new outfit. It’s a valid point that I think the Imagineers are, hopefully, aware of. I answered with my view on why I think it will work out ok.

By all means, keep pointing out things you do or don’t like and why! This is not a Disney-Can-Do-No-Wrong forum.

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

This is not a Disney-Can-Do-No-Wrong forum

Except about this upcoming attraction

 

[PiratesMansion]

Except about this upcoming attraction

And I'd counter and say that for every detail released about this project, no matter how seemingly innocuous, for a very vocal percentage it's "see, I knew it, I knew this was going to be a trashfire!"