Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion

[Californian Elitist]

Once again, we have some of the same folks who are mocking DEI work, and, somehow, championing for authentic African and African American culture, history, and literature. The irony is hot.

 

[mickEblu]

There’s quite a difference here between what JCH did and the various white people who have changed European tales.

No one was checking for African folklore and the African American/African roots of the Brers until Disney announced that the ride was closing. Now, all of a sudden, they matter.

If I was African American, particularly an African American male, it would probably be more meaningful to me than PatF. However I’m not, so that part of Splash Mountain and it’s lore didn’t mean much to me personally but it did add some depth and richness to the characters and the world they come from.

 

[BasiltheBatLord]

It would have been authentic, as you hinted at, and wouldn’t have been based on SotS.

Can you describe how? That's what I'm not getting. What about the Harris adaptations is inauthentic other than the fact they were recorded by a white person?

 

[SuddenStorm]

I think everyone agrees some level of DEI is important in an organization- as no one should be denied a job due to their sexuality, race, religion, etc. and there is inherent value in having different cultures represented in a workplace.

We take issue with short sighted, superficial gestures that seem meaningful but are only skin deep and have their own issues.

A strong case can be made that if Disney had changed the marketing around Splash Mountain- embraced the Br'er Tales as authentic African Folklore and worked with important figures to help adapt the stories for a modern generation, like a Disney+ series based around the Br'ers, Splash Mountain could have been viewed differently by those who took issue with the ride's source material.

And I'd argue that with Frontierland representing American folklore, Fantasyland representing European Folklore- having African folklore represented further enriches Disneyland.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Can you describe how? That's what I'm not getting. What about the Harris adaptations is inauthentic other than the fact they were recorded by a white person?

If you’re interested, there’s a wonderful African/African American Folkore text that can be purchased on Amazon. I linked it some posts back, but I’ll link it again at the bottom. It not only features stories, including the more authentic tales, but it also has wonderful and insightful commentary, including on JCH and what he did with the oral literature. It provides notes on some of the tales, including how they differ in the original literature.

Here are some examples from my own copy:

Here’s the text, which can be found on Amazon:

The Annotated African American Folktales (The Annotated Books) https://a.co/d/ct8WUWA

 

[Californian Elitist]

If I was African American, particularly an African American male, it would probably be more meaningful to me than PatF. However I’m not, so that part of Splash Mountain and it’s lore didn’t mean much to me personally but it did add some depth and richness to the characters and the world they come from.

Even if the Tales came from a white man?

I’m African American and the Uncle Remus Tales mean nothing to me, personally.

 

[SuddenStorm]

If you’re interested, there’s a wonderful African/African American Folkore text that can be purchased on Amazon. I linked it some posts back, but I’ll link it again at the bottom. It not only features stories, including the more authentic tales, but it also has wonderful and insightful commentary, including on JCH and what he did with the oral literature. It provides notes on some of the tales, including how they differ in the original literature.

Here are some examples from my own copy:
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Here’s the text, which can be found on Amazon:

The Annotated African American Folktales (The Annotated Books) https://a.co/d/ct8WUWA

How does that book compare to this one? Amazon product ASIN 0803724519
I've been meaning to purchase a copy of the Br'er text, and find the Harris versions unpalatable so finding the best version has been on my to do list.

 

[Californian Elitist]

How does that book compare to this one? Amazon product ASIN 0803724519
I've been meaning to purchase a copy of the Br'er text, and find the Harris versions unpalatable so finding the best version has been on my to do list.

This appears to be a translated/updated version of the Uncle Remus Tales. In the description, it says the dialect is dropped. The text I linked is a collection of Black folklore and does not include the entirety of the Uncle Remus Tales. Just a few of them with notes.

 

[zipadee999]

I’m well aware of Joel Chandler Harris’ life and how he appropriated the stories.

Given your rhetoric, apparently not

 

[Dear Prudence]

How does that book compare to this one? Amazon product ASIN 0803724519
I've been meaning to purchase a copy of the Br'er text, and find the Harris versions unpalatable so finding the best version has been on my to do list.

Julius Lester was one of the most informed historians, oral literature specialists, and was a fantastic storyteller. If anyone is going to read any version of the Brer Rabbit oral literature, it honestly should be these versions. He also pulls from Native and Gullah versions. The original prints of his books had extended notes, footnotes. Dr. Gates' comparative book is a good companion to this, but Julius Lester specialized in just that corner of oral literature.

He was a good personal mentor and friend to me personally, and May his memory be a blessing.

 

[Dear Prudence]

I'm hoping you are right.

For whatever reason, the leading executives on this project don't want to talk much about what the actual ride experience is going to be like for people. Instead, they keep talking about what the queue experience will be like and how we'll be able to notice all these little details that add layers of inane backstory to the ride.

I could understand that from WDI in 2020 or 2021, because this project was thrust on them by surprise and it clearly had very little development behind it when Bob Iger clumsily announced it publicly in June, 2020. But now it's 2023 and both rides are closed and under active construction, so they have to know what's going in to the ride itself.

But they're being coy and mostly silent on what's inside the actual ride, and instead they are weirdly offering up minor details like the fact that the queue music will appear to be playing from a circa 1930 Avrin brand radio (Uh... okay?) and Ralphie will play the drums using a circa 1920 Zildjian drum set (Uh... okay?).



This is most definitely a poorly managed news/PR cycle for them. The best hope we have now is that's all there is to it, and someone just let the communications on this get messy for no good reason.

And that 18 months from now we'll have a musical log ride that is fun and upbeat, not overwrought and heavy.



Disneyland is not rocket science. It's just a wildly successful theme park that enjoys lavish budgets and top-tier talent.

The leadership ranks for the parks are suddenly making this all way too hard on themselves, and I can't figure out why?

Bob Iger bought himself multiple yachts while his cast members barely made enough to live. They can ship influencers to NOLA, and not pay their cast members appropriately. I have never seen so many adults show such wild cognitive dissonance in my entire life.

 

[BrerFoxesBayouAdventure]

The only major difference in the movies is that Tiana is a restaurant owner while Uncle Remus is a sharecropper, and it seems Tiana doesn't even own the restaurant anymore.

I don't get this. Tiana's entire plot thread involves her wanting to have her own restaurant, it feels sort of contradictory for her to just hand it over to her employees and get little to nothing in return.

 

[LittleBuford]

We know the answer to this. They openly despise what the park is founded on - Americana nostalgia, optimism for the future, celebration of the past (frontier, adventure, etc.) with all of its warts, etc. With every change and comment, they do not hide their distaste for what has made the parks and the Disney brand beloved around the world.

I'm sure they wince every time they walk down "Main Street, USA": How can we celebrate a time period in this racist country when people of color and different sexual orientations were suffering?!?! How can we allow this to not represent what was happening to the marginalized in our society during this troubled time?!?! Silence is violence!!!

I would be fascinated to know if the EVP of DEI was a lifelong theme park and Disney park fan and has taken countless vacations to theme parks on her own money, with no VIP experiences, etc. (Just kidding, we know the answer to this, but just fun to say out loud).

Yeah, when you have people running a brand who actively dislike the brand, its product, and those who love the product, it's a problem.

You’re assuming an awful lot here.

While I may find some of the press releases about this ride puzzling, they contain nothing to suggest that the people behind the attraction hate America or the Disney brand. Resorting to such hyperbolic slurs seems wholly unnecessary, inappropriate, and unfair to me.

 

[LittleBuford]

He appropriated stories and came up with Uncle Remus on his own. He is the author of the Uncle Remus Tales, not the slaves he came into contact with.

If folks actually cared about the actual lore, they would be looking everywhere BUT the Uncle Remus Tales.

There’s a very curious double standard operating among some of the posters here. On the one hand, they’ll insist that the new ride should be focused on fun and steer clear of anything that attempts to edify guests. On the other hand, they’ll talk about the old ride as if it had been some vitally important cultural preservation project that played a central role in the celebration and teaching of African-American folklore. Did anyone before 2020 seriously view Splash Mountain in these terms? Where did this sudden concern for Black heritage come from?

 

[mickEblu]

There’s a very curious double standard operating among some of the posters here. On the one hand, they’ll insist that the new ride should be focused on fun and steer clear of anything that attempts to edify guests. On the other hand, they’ll talk about the old ride as if it had been some vitally important cultural preservation project that played a central role in the celebration and teaching of African-American folklore. Did anyone before 2020 seriously view Splash Mountain in these terms? Where did this sudden concern for Black heritage come from?

Did anyone before 2020 find Splash Mountain problematic? Let’s just do a search on this site and see if we can find even one post prior to 2020.

 

[BrerFoxesBayouAdventure]

Did anyone before 2020 find Splash Mountain problematic? Let’s just do a search on this site and see if we can find even one post prior to 2020.

There were definitely people who didn't like the theming of the ride but didn't cause too much of a stink about it up until that year. 2020 was when the world did a 180 on Splash and condemned it as some sort of "abominable", "evil" ride deserving of being demolished.

 

[LittleBuford]

Did anyone before 2020 find Splash Mountain problematic? Let’s just do a search on this site and see if we can find even one post prior to 2020.

Here you go, from 2018:

There was an idea on Theme Park University that SM could be rethemed to The Princess and the Frog because of its controversial origin that is Song of the South.

I played along with your challenge because it took me all of two minutes to find such a post, but it’s beside the point anyway, because I’m talking about double standards—maintaining two contradictory things at once—rather than a shift in how people view things.

 

[mickEblu]

Here you go, from 2018:


I played along with your challenge because it took me all of two minutes to find such a post, but it’s beside the point anyway, because I’m talking about double standards—maintaining two contradictory things at once—rather than a shift in how people view things.

Lol stop. Oh wow one person explaining something he saw on another site. Not even complaining himself. I’ve been here since 2013 and not one person on the DL Forum ever said Splash Mountain was problematic.

 

[LittleBuford]

The only trouble she runs into socially is due to her being a woman of little means, not of color.

You’re forgetting the scene with the Fenner brothers. It’s subtle, but it’s clear what they mean.

 

[Californian Elitist]

There’s a very curious double standard operating among some of the posters here. On the one hand, they’ll insist that the new ride should be focused on fun and steer clear of anything that attempts to edify guests. On the other hand, they’ll talk about the old ride as if it had been some vitally important cultural preservation project that played a central role in the celebration and teaching of African-American folklore. Did anyone before 2020 seriously view Splash Mountain in these terms? Where did this sudden concern for Black heritage come from?

THANK YOU. That’s what I’m saying. Where was all this concern about preserving “black culture” when Splash was open? No one was talking about how amazing it was that Disney was honoring so-called black heritage. Everyone was praising the music, plot, and imagineering, which is warranted and fine. That’s because no one gave a crap about the actual lore and the roots. Now that it’s gone, black culture and heritage suddenly matter.

It’s fake.