News Tiana’s Palace Coming to Disneyland Later this Year

[MisterPenguin]

Are interracial people not considered black?

I know. What's miscegenationism coming to these days!!

 

[Californian Elitist]

Princess and the Frog is better than any movie WDAS has put out post-Frozen.

Are interracial people not considered black?

No, they’re not, according to DNA. Biracial people with one black parent and one non-black are biracial, not black. They may be ethnically black, but not racially (only half).

The one-drop rule mindset needs to be rid of already.

 

[Consumer]

No, they’re not, according to DNA. Biracial people with one black parent and one non-black are biracial, not black. They may be ethnically black, but not racially (only half).

The one-drop rule mindset needs to be rid of already.

I’ll be honest, I don’t really know what any of that means. Maybe I’m just unaware of the nuances of blackness but I thought blacks people were just people who had black skin.*

*Exceptions for those lacking pigmentation, such as albinos. It’s easy to see how an albino child of two black people is still black despite the missing melanin.

 

[mlayton144]

No, they’re not, according to DNA. Biracial people with one black parent and one non-black are biracial, not black. They may be ethnically black, but not racially (only half).

The one-drop rule mindset needs to be rid of already.

What about someone with a white grandfather - are they black? Such silliness, I guess Obama wasn’t the first black POTUS by that definition

 

[Californian Elitist]

I’ll be honest, I don’t really know what any of that means. Maybe I’m just unaware of the nuances of blackness but I thought blacks people were just people who had black skin.*

*Exceptions for those lacking pigmentation, such as albinos. It’s easy to see how an albino child of two black people is still black despite the missing melanin.

That’s correct, black albino children are still black, despite not having any melanin.

Here’s a good, basic explanation of the one-drop rule:

Blackness is fluid. Many black people consider biracial people, 1/4 black people, and so on black. I do not, as it’s absurd. This doesn’t happen with any other races of mixed people, not to the same extent, at least. How is it that the race of the other parent cancels out? Only two black people can create another black person, in terms of race.

Plenty of biracial people with one black parent identify as black. That’s fine. But this doesn’t take away the fact that one of their parents isn’t black.

This is why I said there’s only one black character in Strange World. The other one is biracial.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The theory of race as a scientific classification is and always has been false. People with dark pigmented skin are no more a different race of humans than people with blue eyes are a different race. In this context, race is a failed scientific theory and just pseudo-science perpetuated by Colonialists to justify slavery of Africans, and, in more modern times, to justify bigotry and discrimination.

So, race doesn't exist scientifically. But it continues to exist as a concept socially as people are treated differently because of their skin color. Which is stupid. And because people give it credence, it does exist as both individuals and society respond to this pseudo-scientific falsehood of "race" as if were a thing.

To bring this round to the discussion at hand, in the old pseudo-science days, "one drop" of "Negro blood" made one Black. In the more modern social-racism milieu, one's race (as false as that is as a reality) is determined by judging how 'dark' a person's skin is.

 

[TP2000]

While any normal Hollywood Studio I would concede the box office matters incredibly for, Disney is a different beast when it comes to its franchises that it likes. Which live on productively for decades and soon to be centuries beyond their mere film.

List of highest-grossing media franchises - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Even if you want to give Tiana 1% credit for the Disney Princess line, we're talking 50 billion in retail sales (the Wiki figure dates back to 2018). Also important to note Frozen is not part of the lineup. The box office figures are kind of immaterial to this franchise.

I agree with all of that and think it's a really valid point.

This is also why DCA got Cars Land, because it was a franchise that sold Billions of merchandise to boys.

But this seems to bolster my main complaint with this restaurant; why wasn't it built in 2010 instead of 2023? It should have been a park addition many years ago. But without the fake smokestacks, and without using a crappy buffeteria place to do it.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

2015 was the last time I was most pleased with the parks within the last decade. They’ve made a lot of decisions that have turned me off. Not to mention my interests and priorities have changed since then.

I was generally happy with the parks prior to 2020, post Covid has been a different story though, reservations, AP changes, G+… prior to 2020 was minor annoyances like price increases, post 2020 has been a never ending string of negative changes.

The last few weeks have seen a little positive news, hopefully they continue on in that direction.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I was generally happy with the parks prior to 2020, post Covid has been a different story though, reservations, AP changes, G+… prior to 2020 was minor annoyances like price increases, post 2020 has been a never ending string of negative changes.

The last few weeks have seen a little positive news, hopefully they continue on in that direction.

I agree that things really got bad after COVID. 2012 was also a great year. Just though of that.

I have very low expectations, but I’m hoping some of the park’s glory can be restored by the time the 75th comes.

 

[TP2000]

Their next Princess is black, in Wish. You got your wish!

Be careful, because apparently that's not the case. She's "Afro-Latina", which is a classification I'd never heard of before.

In one of the movie threads we were discussing Wish, and then I ended up down a creepy side of the Internet where people on other Black-focused websites were all complaining that the girl in Wish isn't "Black enough" and not really Black because she's Latina.

It gets really creepy and really weird and quite disturbingly racist very quickly on those other websites. But the summary was that the princess in Wish is not really Black and is going to face a hard time being accepted by many in America's Black community because she's more Latina than African-American.

Again, for most white folks (and probably others too), that kind of talk is disturbing and super uncomfortable and downright racist. But it's out there and it's happening in 2023. There's also some concept called "Colorism" talked about in that community, which is another thing I hadn't heard of and that seems inherently bigoted to adhere to.

But the princess in Wish is already being criticized by those types of bigots for not being Black enough. Bizarro world!

 

[Consumer]

That’s correct, black albino children are still black, despite not having any melanin.

Here’s a good, basic explanation of the one-drop rule:

View attachment 693797

Blackness is fluid. Many black people consider biracial people, 1/4 black people, and so on black. I do not, as it’s absurd. This doesn’t happen with any other races of mixed people, not to the same extent, at least. How is it that the race of the other parent cancels out? Only two black people can create another black person, in terms of race.

Plenty of biracial people with one black parent identify as black. That’s fine. But this doesn’t take away the fact that one of their parents isn’t black.

This is why I said there’s only one black character in Strange World. The other one is biracial.

This is all very interesting. I don't know if I necessarily agree, but I appreciate the unique perspective.

The theory of race as a scientific classification is and always has been false. People with dark pigmented skin are no more a different race of humans than people with blue eyes are a different race. In this context, race is a failed scientific theory and just pseudo-science perpetuated by Colonialists to justify slavery of Africans, and, in more modern times, to justify bigotry and discrimination.

So, race doesn't exist scientifically. But it continues to exist as a concept socially as people are treated differently because of their skin color. Which is stupid. And because people give it credence, it does exist as both individuals and society respond to this pseudo-scientific falsehood of "race" as if were a thing.

To bring this round to the discussion at hand, in the old pseudo-science days, "one drop" of "Negro blood" made one Black. In the more modern social-racism milieu, one's race (as false as that is as a reality) is determined by judging how 'dark' a person's skin is.

I wouldn't say race doesn't exist. Yes, we're all human beings, but certain groups have biological differences. One of the easiest of these to see if lactose intolerance in different groups. 75-95% of black people have lactose intolerance, whereas only 18-26% of white people do. This is a result of thousands of years of microevolution and the passed down genetics of these people's ancestors. There's a clear biological difference here. That doesn't make one more human or less human, just something that exists.

This can be applied more broadly to physical and intellectual traits, as well. If two tall people have a baby, their baby is likely to be tall. If two smart people have a baby, their baby is likely to be smart. Obviously there are other factors such as diet and education that can shape such traits, but looking strictly at genetics.

Anyway, I fear the potential route this conversation could take. Fascinating discussion topic, in my opinion, but I'm not sure a Disney forum is the right place to discuss the nuances of races.

Be careful, because apparently that's not the case. She's "Afro-Latina", which is a classification I'd never heard of before.

In one of the movie threads we were discussing Wish, and then I ended up down a creepy side of the Internet where people on other Black-focused websites were all complaining that the girl in Wish isn't "Black enough" and not really Black because she's Latina.

It gets really creepy and really weird and quite disturbingly racist very quickly on those other websites. But the summary was that the princess in Wish is not really Black and is going to face a hard time being accepted by many in America's Black community because she's more Latina than African-American.

Again, for most white folks (and probably others too), that kind of talk is disturbing and super uncomfortable and downright racist. But it's out there and it's happening in 2023. There's also some concept called "Colorism" talked about in that community, which is another thing I hadn't heard of and that seems inherently bigoted to adhere to.

But the princess in Wish is already being criticized by those types of bigots for not being Black enough. Bizarro world!

Other than the goat in pajamas, I don't know anything about Wish. Honestly, I thought it was set in Africa.

 

[mlayton144]

Be careful, because apparently that's not the case. She's "Afro-Latina", which is a classification I'd never heard of before.

In one of the movie threads we were discussing Wish, and then I ended up down a creepy side of the Internet where people on other Black-focused websites were all complaining that the girl in Wish isn't "Black enough" and not really Black because she's Latina.

It gets really creepy and really weird and quite disturbingly racist very quickly on those other websites. But the summary was that the princess in Wish is not really Black and is going to face a hard time being accepted by many in America's Black community because she's more Latina than African-American.

Again, for most white folks (and probably others too), that kind of talk is disturbing and super uncomfortable and downright racist. But it's out there and it's happening in 2023. There's also some concept called "Colorism" talked about in that community, which is another thing I hadn't heard of and that seems inherently bigoted to adhere to.

But the princess in Wish is already being criticized by those types of bigots for not being Black enough. Bizarro world!

If you are really motivated in your retirement , maybe go for that PhD in what will inevitably be the next big field - Afro-Latina studies LOL

 

[TP2000]

Other than the goat in pajamas, I don't know anything about Wish. Honestly, I thought it was set in Africa.

I hadn't even heard about it, unsurprisingly for me, but then got up to speed. Its set in a mythical land where the star Disney characters have wished on is set, or something like that. Seems like it could be a cute movie, and the goat wearing PJ's is a slam dunk for cuteness.

But then it came about in the discussion that some folks in this country are criticizing Disney for making her Afro-Latina and voiced by an Afro-Latina actress, instead of making her "Black". I take it that Afro-Latina is probably someone from the Caribbean? Dominican Republic maybe?

For folks like me, the concern about her exact color all seems very odd and rather disturbing. Also rabidly bigoted. Distasteful, really.

 

[Californian Elitist]

The protagonist in Wish is black/Afro-Latina. Very simple. An Afro-Latino/Latina is a black Latino/Latina.

 

[Rich T]

Most of Disney's live action films are beloved by the people who grew up with them and forgotten/disliked by all other generations.

Watch, they’ll all become cult classics in 20 years, and people will start cosplaying as Dean Jones, Suzanne Pleshette and teenage Kurt Russell.

There are a few outstanding gems that need more recognition, like Darby O’Gill & The Little People, which is one of the best fantasy films ever made, in or out of Disney. And classics like 20,000 Leagues and Swiss Family Robinson deserve to be as well known as similar big-budget live action adventures of the time.

But the bulk of Disney’s live-action output from Sh@ggy Dog to Sh@ggy DA were like feature-length fantasy sitcom pilots, quickly cranked out to make money in a theatrical market where they basically had zero competition for the family audience. I grew up enjoying those films in theaters, but even as a kid, I knew when I saw $1,000,000 Duck (Pitch Meeting: “It eats radioactive pills or something and starts laying real gold eggs!”) that the formula was wearing thin. And as an adult, I’ve not got much interest in revisiting them…

Except for, bless its heart, Blackbeard’s Ghost, which somehow got blessed with the budget, art direction, and wonderful cast to elevate its absolutely ridiculous plot into a genuinely charming, quirky, and great-looking modern fantasy. Make no mistake, if it weren’t for its surprisingly emotional ending which assures no sequels, this could easily have been turned into a 60’s sitcom alongside Bewitched and The Munsters, but the cast makes it work as the pinnacle of the lightweight Disney comedy era. It helps that Peter Ustinov is clearly having a blast playing Blackbeard as an older Jack Sparrow several decades before Jack Sparrow existed.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I hadn't even heard about it, unsurprisingly for me, but then got up to speed. Its set in a mythical land where the star Disney characters have wished on is set, or something like that. Seems like it could be a cute movie, and the goat wearing PJ's is a slam dunk for cuteness.

But then it came about in the discussion that some folks in this country are criticizing Disney for making her Afro-Latina and voiced by an Afro-Latina actress, instead of making her "Black". I take it that Afro-Latina is probably someone from the Caribbean? Dominican Republic maybe?

For folks like me, the concern about her exact color all seems very odd and rather disturbing. Also rabidly bigoted. Distasteful, really.

It's amazing how you can get up to speed about what the movie is and the heritage of the protagonist and the person voicing her, but somehow you're all confused about Afro-Latina is and you're asking questions here instead of using what ever sources you used to investigate the movie.

Did Google stop working for you?

Or is throwing out loaded questions about race your real gambit here?

 

[Practical Pig]

Watch, they’ll all become cult classics in 20 years, and people will start cosplaying as Dean Jones, Suzanne Pleshette and teenage Kurt Russell.

There are a few outstanding gems that need more recognition, like Darby O’Gill & The Little People, which is one of the best fantasy films ever made, in or out of Disney. And classics like 20,000 Leagues and Swiss Family Robinson deserve to be as well known as similar big-budget live action adventures of the time.

But the bulk of Disney’s live-action output from Sh@ggy Dog to Sh@ggy DA were like feature-length fantasy sitcom pilots, quickly cranked out to make money in a theatrical market where they basically had zero competition for the family audience. I grew up enjoying those films in theaters, but even as a kid, I knew when I saw $1,000,000 Duck (Pitch Meeting: “It eats radioactive pills or something and starts laying real gold eggs!”) that the formula was wearing thin. And as an adult, I’ve not got much interest in revisiting them…

Except for, bless its heart, Blackbeard’s Ghost, which somehow got blessed with the budget, art direction, and wonderful cast to elevate its absolutely ridiculous plot into a genuinely charming, quirky, and great-looking modern fantasy. Make no mistake, if it weren’t for its surprisingly emotional ending which assures no sequels, this could easily have been turned into a 60’s sitcom alongside Bewitched and The Munsters, but the cast makes it work as the pinnacle of the lightweight Disney comedy era. It helps that Peter Ustinov is clearly having a blast playing Blackbeard as an older Jack Sparrow several decades before Jack Sparrow existed.

Having grown up in this era watching the same movies, all this is spot on. I rewatched Darby O’Gill & The Little People and Blackbeard’s Ghost a little while ago on D+ in a warm glow of nostalgia. I really have no interest in revisiting anything with a long-haired dog that this software won't let me type or starring a Volkswagen.

 

[TP2000]

It's amazing how you can get up to speed about what the movie is and the heritage of the protagonist and the person voicing her, but somehow you're all confused about Afro-Latina is and you're asking questions here instead of using what ever sources you used to investigate the movie.

I used that other thread, and Google, to figure out what the upcoming movie Wish was about.

Did Google stop working for you?

Funny you mention that. Google is exactly how I ended up down a racist rabbit hole of people complaining that the princess in Disney's Wish was "Afro-Latina" instead of "Black". I would never have known about it otherwise, or have ever been exposed to concepts like "Afro-Latina" being less than, or the odd and bigoted concept of "Colorism" in general.

Google can lead you to dark and bigoted places on the web. It certainly did when I Googled up the princess in Wish.

Or is throwing out loaded questions about race your real gambit here?

I don't know that they're loaded in any way. They are honest questions.

Or at least honest commentary after learning there are folks in this country that are upset about the specific shade and assumed ethnicity of a cartoon princess living in a fictional land (whose best friend is a pajamas-wearing goat, by the way). It is what it is. But it was alarmingly bigoted and racist for me to learn about. I had no idea people thought like that in 2023!

 

[TP2000]

The protagonist in Wish is black/Afro-Latina. Very simple. An Afro-Latino/Latina is a black Latino/Latina.

After ending up on some very dark and weird websites where I learned the exact same thing, you're going to have to excuse a large portion of American society who have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Or more importantly, why it would be bad that an Afro-Latina is such a thing. As some bigoted folks today apparently think is the case.

 

[TP2000]

What about someone with a white grandfather - are they black? Such silliness, I guess Obama wasn’t the first black POTUS by that definition

No, using that criteria, President Obama would not be the first Black President. He is genetically half-white, and culturally raised by his white mother and his white grandparents after his Kenyan father abandoned both his wife and his son early in Barack Obama's life.

Using that criteria, Obama would be the first biracial President. Or, more specifically and accurately, the first half-white President.

That doesn't have quite the same ring to it, does it?