I think it depends on where you go at Disneyland. We've had some pretty great meals as long as we stay away from chicken fingers, most burgers and pizza port. I thought Magic Mountain was poor and Knott's is in between Disneyland and MM.
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Politics Theme Park Reopening Guidelines to be released 10/20/20
- Thread starter Stevek
- Start date
This thread contains political discussion related to the original thread topic
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
That Universal lady is spunky! I like her!
Jiggsawpuzzle35
Well-Known Member
The burgers at Disneyland have always been disgusting. Back in the days I remember I had to go to the Village Haus for my meals. It was either a burger or personal pizza. I always picked the pizza.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I liked her too. She knows her stuff and she's just trying to keep her employees, you know, employed.
D
Deleted member 107043
All this hand wringing and finger pointing over SF being in the yellow tier, and not a peep yet from OC residents asking why their county is still in the red tier and what they can do to get on track. Do people down there not hold their county, city, and community leaders accountable or is everything Newsom's fault?
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
Why all this hand wringing and finger pointing over the OC being in the Red Terror Alert Level and not questioning the obvious abandonment of the Science and Data by the Newsom Administration in regards to San Francisco? Why are they being given special treatment?
Askimosita
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
No one wants to rush into litigation until they have to. They want to discuss civilly, see if Newsom gets to that decision himself, and then hopefully all will be well. It’s a lot of time, money, and effort... not to mention negative PR. So they are trying to raise public awareness and collaborate first. It is typically the easiest path. Also, they actually have a strong basis for why the guidelines are unjust. One of the many reasons you can see is the fact shopping and dining establishments can allow 50% of capacity indoors in red, but if a shopping establishment is open in a theme park, it can only have 25% capacity inside the shop or dining establishment. For example, at yellow tier, world of Disney in DTD will be able to have more percent capacity vs the emporium in DL—with already lowered attendance—because you crossed the gate. They are not being held to the same arbitrary standards when comparing apples to apples in each segment. And if you read the remarks from these theme park leaders, you will notice the legalese permeate. It’s definitely the next step after civil negotiation.
Likewise, I wouldn’t be surprised if they are waiting on today’s court decision; while the case is undecided, it is looking in the favor of Gallagher and Kiley just on pure observation as a bystander with a lawyer husband to translate
, and if the judge denies Newsom’s motion to stay, then his guidelines are POOF Until the court of appeals, which takes some time. That means at least 2 weeks potentially of NO EMERGENCY ORDERS. Realistically, would the parks open? Likely not because their local health commissioner gave them permission in Orange. And unions said they would return only in Orange. and if the court of appeals decides completely differently, then his orders can go back in place and it’s just a headache for businesses and those they employed losing their jobs again. BUT it’s an opportunity. AND it’s reassuring if it is continuously appealed, likely to the CA Supreme Court. Arguments were very solid today.
George Lucas on a Bench
Well-Known Member
It would seem what we really need to be focused on is how to fake our numbers like SF and upgrade the Terror Alert Level.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
They’ve been trying the public relations route for awhile and it’s resulted in dozens of supports on the streets. They haven’t gained any traction and have claimed for some time now they are not being consulted. Whats the saying about doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result? Cedar Fair was not shy about very quickly taking action in Ohio, but there is clearly something different about California that is giving them pause.
Is the idea that people travel to and spend long periods of time in amusement parks really that foreign? The differences between amusement parks and constituent components were spelled out. People don’t make a vacation out of going to Denny’s and Orange County now has a health official on record saying people from other counties and out of state are a problem that hinders their ability to contain the virus.
They aren't great which is why 99% of the time we steer clear. I've had a couple of reasonably good, not great burgers at smokejumpers...could have been all the beer that made them better though. I'd much rather have a sandwich at Jolly Holiday or the Sun Dried tomato pasta at Boardwalk Pizza and Pasta. We did used to get the pizza at Village house quite a bit back in the day as well, mainly because our kids loved it.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
On track to what? To a mythical land where 2.5 = 0.9 and Nancy Pelosi always has a fresh blowout?
How do you even plan for that when it's a mystery how it happens? Not even Ken Potrock can figure it out, and he's got a team of lawyers and highly paid government relations people who know what phone numbers actually get answered up in Sacramento. But Ken Potrock is just as clueless as we are.
How does 2.5 = 0.9? And how does a county and its private industry plan for that equation?
Using the actual scientific data (that is still tracked by the state, for now), Orange County has one of the lowest transmission rates of all the big multi-million counties. Los Angeles County needs to send a group of their pros down to Orange County to see how LA can improve themselves and be more like OC.
San Francisco County, 880,000 = 2.5 Cases Per 100K,
Orange County, 3.2 Million = 4.6 Cases Per 100K, Red Tier
Los Angeles County, 10.2 Million = 10.1 Cases Per 100K, Purple Tier
Riverside County 2.5 Million = 8.4 Cases Per 100K, Purple Tier
San Bernardino County 2.1 Million = 10.8 Cases Per 100K, Purple Tier
COVID-19 Home
covid19.ca.gov
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Askimosita
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
I said there are many points. The other major point is the lack of numerical data From parks out of California to back up the idea of parks being as unsafe as they assume they will be, more unsafe than a sports arena. State officials can’t provide that. If you listen to the CAPA video, you will see theme parks were not provided that. Until that is seen, it is “arbitrary” and able to be argued.
Disney Analyst
Well-Known Member
@TP2000 Thought you'd get a kick out of this, for BC:
Specificially the Van region at 325 cases per 100,000 in the past 14 days, my region FN at 167, and FS at 741.
Unsure how this compares to California's numbers? But our one diddly amusement park is still open on Saturday evenings for Halloween fun...
ETA:
I assume you can just divide by 14 to get an average per day? So Vancouver is at 23 or so cases per 100,000, per day, for the last two weeks.
Isn't California's purple tier 10?
Specificially the Van region at 325 cases per 100,000 in the past 14 days, my region FN at 167, and FS at 741.
Unsure how this compares to California's numbers? But our one diddly amusement park is still open on Saturday evenings for Halloween fun...
ETA:
I assume you can just divide by 14 to get an average per day? So Vancouver is at 23 or so cases per 100,000, per day, for the last two weeks.
Isn't California's purple tier 10?
I get it that San Francisco got extra credit for saving the whales and a gold star for Nancy Pelosi's beautiful hairdo, so the actual scientific transmission rate of 2.5 was graded on a curve and given a San Francisco score of 1.5
But that doesn't explain how they turned the revised 1.5 score into a 0.9 score that is required for the Yellow Tier.
The Yellow Tier was always stated as needing to be "Less Than One", and that language is still clearly stated on the state website that San Francisco was graded by. 1.5 is more than 1.0
0.9 is less than 1.0, what am I missing there? Besides saving the whales, of course.
COVID-19 Home
Let me take a stab at it because the underlying documentation is truly dense and their spreadsheet only shows values and no formulas:
A) Take the Positivity Rate and the number of COVID Cases per 100,000 people from two weeks ago.
- stats from from two weeks ago because of delays of reporting... the past week's numbers are constantly changing and are usually under-reported
- this applies to a city or county... which I'll call a 'district' from here on out.
So, let's walk through the situation of these three districts whose numbers this week are...
| District (County/City) | Positivity % | Cases per 100,00 |
|---|---|---|
| Los Angeles | 3.4 "orange" | 10.1 "purple" |
| Orange | 3.2 "orange" | 4.6 "red" |
| San Francisco | 0.8 "yellow" | 2.5 "orange" |
B) Now, apply a modifier to the Cases/100k People (last column). Here's how...
This modifier depends on total number of tests that the district administers per 100k people.
- Don't get this number confused with Cases/100k people, which is the absolute number of those who've tested positive. We're talking instead about the total number of tests administered whether positive or negative.
The number of tests is a "median" (i.e., an "average") of the previous week. So, going back two weeks, you average out the number of tests per day administered that week and divide by 100k people. This is the district's "median testing" stat.
You take the district's median number of tests/100k and compare it to California State's median number of tests/100k.
If your district has been doing more testing than the state median, then your "Cases of COVID per 100,000" number can get adjusted down.
An adjustment reduction is given for having a district median anywhere up to two times the state median of testing. Within that range, the higher your testing, the more your Cases per 100k gets reduced to a maximum of 60% of the unadjusted figure.
So, let's look at the current stats: The California state median of testing for COVID is about 240 tests per 100,000 people for the whole state over the prior week.
- Los Angeles has a testing rate per 100k of 386 which reduces its Cases/100k [which is 10.1] to 75% of its unadjusted value [which becomes 7.6].
- San Francisco has a testing rate of 596 and its Cases/100k [which is 2.5] is adjusted down to 60% of its value [which becomes 1.5]
- Orange has a testing rate of 218. Uh oh... that's *less* than the median. That could mean its testing rate [of 4.6] can be adjusted *up*!!
- However, if a district has a Positivity Rate that is under 3.5% [Orange County's positivity is 3.2%], then it gets off on good behavior and it doesn't get its Cases/100k inflated. And thus, no adjustment to Orange's Cases [stays at 4.6].
The new standings after adjustments:
| County | Positivity % | Cases per 100,00 |
|---|---|---|
| Los Angeles | 3.4 "orange" | 7.6 "purple" |
| Orange | 3.2 "orange" | 4.6 "red" |
| San Francisco | 0.8 "yellow" | 1.5 "orange" |
C) Next comes the "Equity Adjustment."
The state doesn't want counties to avoid providing testing and caring for its poorest or disenfranchised members. And so, there is a really complicated way to determine what parts of the district are in the 'lowest quartile' (lowest 25% bracket) and to make sure these two things happen:
- The most depressed parts of the district have Positivity Rates that are close to that of the rest of the county.
- The most depressed parts of the district have targeted health care plans.
In order to progress to a better tier the difference between the the lowest quartile and the rest of the district needs to be minimized.
So, not caring for the lowest quartile can hold you back, however, caring for the lowest quartile can have rewards!! For even though your district's case rate (per 100k) may not qualify for the next lower tier, if both the district as a whole, and it's lowest quartile's *positivity* qualify for the next tier then the district can move into the next tier.
And this kinda makes sense because if you let the virus run rampant in depressed areas (where all your minimum wage employees live), it won't just stay there when they go to work in the wealthier part of the district.
Conclusion: And that's why San Francisco is in the Yellow Tier even though their Cases/100k is still in Orange. That's because both the whole district's Positivity and their lowest quartile's Positivity are in Yellow (plus all the work they did to show they have targeted health care plans for the lowest quartile).
| County | Positivity % | Equity Positivity % | Cases per 100,00 |
|---|---|---|---|
| Los Angeles | 3.4 "orange" | 5.9 "red" | 7.6 "purple" |
| Orange | 3.2 "orange" | 5.6 "red" | 4.6 "red" |
| San Francisco | 0.8 "yellow"  | 1.5 "yellow" | 1.5 "orange" |
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TP2000
Well-Known Member
Fascinating! California's Purple Tier is anything above 7.0 cases per 100,000 people. It's a very low threshold to get into the most restrictive Purple Tier.
California's various tiers are already very low when compared to most other countries. For instance, California has a tier rating of 3.4 cases per 100,000 Californians, and that's a tiny fraction of most European countries like Germany, France, UK, etc.
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Mesmer92
Member
- In the Parks
- No
If you would get your anti disney head out of your behind you would see SF is being treated like the prodigal child while Orange County is being treated like an ugly stepchild. Gavin is an idiot
Disney Irish
Premium Member
Thank you for breaking this down. As shown this is not some conspiracy or some political math based on region.
So if OC would ramp up their testing and would do a big push at limiting the spread in to poorer regions of OC then the county can move to a lower tier too. Hell if OC would just ramp up testing it could move to Orange tier immediately.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
California claims to have the research which I previously said should be released. Similarly the parks have a lack of data regarding their claim of safe operations.
California is not alone in its restrictions on amusement parks, in the United States or abroad. That severely hinders the argument that it is an arbitrary decision. It is not a decision unilaterally by the governor despite the advise of the state public health officials and it is not in opposition to public health officials in other places. Again, in his statement against the guidelines Chau inadvertently backed up the reasoning.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Oh, someone owes you a nice bottle of wine for all that! Thank you!
And while your extremely helpful description is about where I landed too, with only a bit of brain fog, I'm still hung up on this basic rule that was rolled out formally in August and is still listed on the state website...
- If the two metrics are not the same tier, the county's tier assignment will be determined by the more restrictive of the two. For example, if a county's test positivity corresponds to tier 3 (orange, moderate), but the case rate corresponds to tier 1 (purple, widespread), the county will be assigned as tier 1.
Or at least it should have, and San Francisco should have remained in Orange with their 1.5 adjusted metric plus the extra credit for saving the whales.
That was what hung up the theme park executives on the Zoom call earlier today. It seems like the rules just got changed again, but no one can say how or where the new rules are spelled out. And why only San Francisco?
If that template is used for Los Angeles County, they should be in the Orange Tier and not Purple. Or at the very least the Red Tier, as I'm sure someone could come up with some mystery extra credit earned by LA celebrities.
Blueprint for a Safer Economy
www.cdph.ca.gov
planodisney
Well-Known Member
“You can help people who are out of work but you can’t help people who are dead.”
Life also has to be WORTH LIVING.
I hate to shock you but saving our cultural, historical way of AMERICAN LIFE is just as important as saving lives.
I know you can’t see it, but make no mistake that’s in danger.
We fought in 2 world wars not to save lives but to save Freedom and our Way of life.
By your worldview we shouldn’t have defended freedom because saving a life is THE ONLY IMPORTANT THING.
Many of us have a very different worldview.