The World's Most Magical Celebration - Walt Disney World's 50th anniversary

[UNCgolf]

Dinorama has a good backstory, but it doesn't make the end product any better.

It doesn't, but I don't think the end product is significantly worse than Toy Story Land. There was at least thought put into it -- I'm sure there was thought put into TSL too, but you can't really tell when visiting. As I said, Slinky Dog Dash is certainly better than anything in Dinorama, but it doesn't feel like it really had much thought put into it either. It's essentially just a standard family coaster with a themed vehicle. There's not much else to it. If Dinorama had the Excavator or something similar instead of Primeval Whirl and everything else was exactly the same, I don't think anyone would think it was worse than TSL (well, other than people that just love the Toy Story IP).

More importantly, though, TSL just isn't really comparable to Dinorama in either money spent, land used, or overall promotion.

 

[Squishy]

Why are ya'll comparing Toy Story Land to a parking lot....

 

[doctornick]

While you’re at it you might as well bring Astro Orbiter near Mission Space to get 1 in each park

I always thought a version of the jet packs from Shanghai would be a nice fit for Epcot FW if they wanted to do a flat ride there

 

[RSoxNo1]

It doesn't, but I don't think the end product is significantly worse than Toy Story Land. There was at least thought put into it -- I'm sure there was thought put into TSL too, but you can't really tell when visiting. As I said, Slinky Dog Dash is certainly better than anything in Dinorama, but it doesn't feel like it really had much thought put into it either. It's essentially just a standard family coaster with a themed vehicle. There's not much else to it. If Dinorama had the Excavator or something similar instead of Primeval Whirl and everything else was exactly the same, I don't think anyone would think it was worse than TSL (well, other than people that just love the Toy Story IP).

More importantly, though, TSL just isn't really comparable to Dinorama in either money spent, land used, or overall promotion.

Attraction lineup has to matter here as well. Dino-Rama at it's "best" had an awful roller coaster and a spinner. Toy Story land has a flat ride that is better than the spinner, a coaster that is substantially better than the coaster and a dark ride. It's not even close.

 

[UNCgolf]

Attraction lineup has to matter here as well. Dino-Rama at it's "best" had an awful roller coaster and a spinner. Toy Story land has a flat ride that is better than the spinner, a coaster that is substantially better than the coaster and a dark ride. It's not even close.

Sure, as I said, SDD is much better than anything in Dinorama. Also, I wasn't really counting Toy Story Mania as part of Toy Story Land because it was already there -- of course it technically is, but I think that's kind of like giving Dinorama credit for Dinosaur (which is a much better attraction than anything in TSL) because Dinorama is technically a part of DinoLand USA instead of a separate area.

Regardless, I wasn't really talking about the attraction lineup. Of course that matters a lot, but theme and place-setting are the differentiators for Disney parks (and Universal parks to an extent) compared to most other parks around the world, so that's really my focus. I think Storybook Circus and Dinorama are both better at that than TSL, which should matter more than almost anything else at a Disney park; lots of parks have great attractions. And it's not like Storybook Circus/Dinorama are stellar for that aspect either.

Again, though, I don't really understand why you compared TSL to Dinorama/Storybook Circus in the first place. TSL should be compared to New Fantasyland, Pandora, and Galaxy's Edge -- they are the similar expansions in the past decade. If anything, the fact that you're comparing it to Dinorama and Storybook Circus just shows how much of a failure Toy Story Land actually is.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Sure, as I said, SDD is much better than anything in Dinorama. Also, I wasn't really counting Toy Story Mania as part of Toy Story Land because it was already there -- of course it technically is, but I think that's kind of like giving Dinorama credit for Dinosaur (which is a much better attraction than anything in TSL) because Dinorama is technically a part of DinoLand USA instead of a separate area.

Regardless, I wasn't really talking about the attraction lineup. Of course that matters a lot, but theme and place-setting are the differentiators for Disney parks (and Universal parks to an extent) compared to most other parks around the world, so that's really my focus. I think Storybook Circus and Dinorama are both better at that than TSL (and it's not like either of them are stellar), which should matter more than almost anything else at a Disney park. Lots of parks have great attractions. Toy Story Land feels like something out of a Six Flags.

Again, though, I don't really understand why you compared TSL to Dinorama/Storybook Circus in the first place. TSL should be compared to New Fantasyland, Pandora, and Galaxy's Edge -- they are the similar expansions in the past decade. If anything, the fact that you're comparing it to Dinorama and Storybook Circus just shows how much of a failure Toy Story Land actually is.

I lump TSL in with those, primarily because it's a theme that doesn't really lend itself to interesting theming. Oversized props and flat facades are on theme but otherwise uninteresting. New Fantasyland, Pandora and Galaxy's Edge lend themselves to a far more interesting environment.

Dinorama as a roadside attraction and Storybook Circus as a circus are limited in what the best version of that theme can be. The same is true of TSL, hence the comparison.

 

[UNCgolf]

I lump TSL in with those, primarily because it's a theme that doesn't really lend itself to interesting theming. Oversized props and flat facades are on theme but otherwise uninteresting. New Fantasyland, Pandora and Galaxy's Edge lend themselves to a far more interesting environment.

Dinorama as a roadside attraction and Storybook Circus as a circus are limited in what the best version of that theme can be. The same is true of TSL, hence the comparison.

Okay, I understand where you're coming from with that comparison now. I think it's being overly generous to TSL because the scope (costs/land usage) of the expansion dramatically outweighs what was done with the other two, but I get it.

I also think they had some other options for TSL, but even what they did could have been executed better. The scale of the different props doesn't really make sense.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Okay, I understand where you're coming from with that comparison now. I think it's being overly generous to TSL because the scope (costs/land usage) of the expansion dramatically outweighs what was done with the other two, but I get it.

I also think they had some other options for TSL, but even what they did could have been executed better. The scale of the different props doesn't really make sense.

Sure, mistakes were definitely made. But I think even the best version of that land wouldn't aesthetically match Pandora, New Fantasyland, Galaxy's Edge or Cars Land.

 

[Giss Neric]

So what attractions are getting the proper 50th treatment?

- Jungle Cruise (Reimagining)
- The Hall of Presidents (Biden AA)
- Prince Charming Regal Carrousel (Gold leaf additions)

That is all I can think of.....

I'm really disappointed they have yet to move forward with the no-brainers:
Haunted Mansion, Small World, Peter Pan, Tiki Room, Country Bears, Big Thunder, Carousel of Progress, etc.

Mainly minor refreshes and touch ups of note and a small amount of truly major overhauls.

The easiest attraction to get an update and proper 50th treatment: Mickey's PhilharMagic

 

[UNCgolf]

Sure, mistakes were definitely made. But I think even the best version of that land wouldn't aesthetically match Pandora, New Fantasyland, Galaxy's Edge or Cars Land.

Agreed, which is why they shouldn't have built a Toy Story Land in the first place. It doesn't really work as a setting. The current execution wouldn't look shockingly out of place at a Six Flags -- I'm not saying it looks like Six Flags, just that something relatively similar, albeit cheaper, wouldn't be a dramatic aesthetic departure for them. That might even be true of the best possible version of TSL.

They should have just built Slinky Dog Dash with a couple of extra flat rides inside the footprint (or actually built something more interesting than a family coaster) and used the rest of the area for something else.

 

[Haymarket2008]

The easiest attraction to get an update and proper 50th treatment: Mickey's PhilharMagic

I could be misinformed, but I seem to recall that PhilharMagic got robbed of a quality update a few years ago in prep for the 50th. This was before Covid, so idk if we’ll see any change to turn attraction for a while.

 

[Surferboy567]

I could be misinformed, but I seem to recall that PhilharMagic got robbed of a quality update a few years ago in prep for the 50th. This was before Covid, so idk if we’ll see any change to turn attraction for a while.

I also heard the same thing from multiple insiders, I think it was on the list for attractions due for a refurb. I really like Philiharmagic, it could really use an update but I like the basic premise.

 

[marni1971]

I think it was on the list for attractions due for a refurb.

It was.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Agreed, which is why they shouldn't have built a Toy Story Land in the first place. It doesn't really work as a setting. The current execution wouldn't look shockingly out of place at a Six Flags -- I'm not saying it looks like Six Flags, just that something relatively similar, albeit cheaper, wouldn't be a dramatic aesthetic departure for them. That might even be true of the best possible version of TSL.

They should have just built Slinky Dog Dash with a couple of extra flat rides inside the footprint (or actually built something more interesting than a family coaster) and used the rest of the area for something else.

Sometimes it is shocking that the same Imagineers who work on DL projects also work on WDW projects. In CA, Pixar Pier is about the same size as TSL, but includes California Screamin’ (Incredicoaster)—a 6000+ foot roller coaster—Midway Mania, a carousel, a huge Ferris wheel, and a little spinner (plus some games, shopping, and dining). And before we suggest that they needed to go with a coaster with a lower height requirement in TSL because it is Pixar, DCA’s Pixar coaster has a 48-inch height requirement and it isn’t a problem.

They never seem able to use space efficiently in Florida. DL has ”no space” but only removed a farm area for SWGE and somehow has found space for MMRR and doesn’t seem concerned about staffing it in a park with gobs and gobs of E-tickets. How dare we suggest DHS run more than 10 rides?

 

[uncle jimmy]

Is there plans for the projects to ever get the updates (planned or needed) that they cut from the 50th?
After Epcot, is there any rumblings to where the attention will go, DHS or AK? @MansionButler84 @marni1971 @Magic Feather

 

[DoleWhipDrea]

Sometimes it is shocking that the same Imagineers who work on DL projects also work on WDW projects. In CA, Pixar Pier is about the same size as TSL, but includes California Screamin’ (Incredicoaster)—a 6000+ foot roller coaster—Midway Mania, a carousel, a huge Ferris wheel, and a little spinner (plus some games, shopping, and dining). And before we suggest that they needed to go with a coaster with a lower height requirement in TSL because it is Pixar, DCA’s Pixar coaster has a 48-inch height requirement and it isn’t a problem.

They never seem able to use space efficiently in Florida. DL has ”no space” but only removed a farm area for SWGE and somehow has found space for MMRR and doesn’t seem concerned about staffing it in a park with gobs and gobs of E-tickets. How dare we suggest DHS run more than 10 rides?

Pixar Pier is just as unimaginative as TSL, IMHO, and isn't exactly a fair comparison in investment either, as every ride in that area was simply re-themed and had already been a part of DCA prior. Both are cheap excuses to insert more Pixar characters while ignoring the themes of their respective parks. Pixar Pier benefits from the already lackluster theme of its predecessor, Paradise Pier. But TSL was built mostly from scratch (excluding TSM.)

It really is amazing how efficiently space is used at DLR whereas WDW has the "luxury of space" that time and time again is thoughtlessly utilized. We should absolutely be expecting each of these parks have more than 10 rides. I don't understand how management justifies keeping the count so low for their so-called "flagship" WDW.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Pixar Pier is just as unimaginative as TSL, IMHO, and isn't exactly a fair comparison in investment either, as every ride in that area was simply re-themed and had already been a part of DCA prior. Both are cheap excuses to insert more Pixar characters while ignoring the themes of their respective parks. Pixar Pier benefits from the already lackluster theme of its predecessor, Paradise Pier. But TSL was built mostly from scratch (excluding TSM.)

It really is amazing how efficiently space is used at DLR whereas WDW has the "luxury of space" that time and time again is thoughtlessly utilized. We should absolutely be expecting each of these parks have more than 10 rides. I don't understand how management justifies keeping the count so low for their so-called "flagship" WDW.

I was not meaning to give them credit for the Pixar Pier transformation. Even as Paradise Pier, it used its space better. I found it charming for what it was. Plus the coaster is awesome. SDD is fun, but Screamin’/Incredicoaster is a blast and enormous by Disney standards.

 

[The Rocketeer]

Pixar Pier is just as unimaginative as TSL, IMHO, and isn't exactly a fair comparison in investment either, as every ride in that area was simply re-themed and had already been a part of DCA prior. Both are cheap excuses to insert more Pixar characters while ignoring the themes of their respective parks. Pixar Pier benefits from the already lackluster theme of its predecessor, Paradise Pier. But TSL was built mostly from scratch (excluding TSM.)

It really is amazing how efficiently space is used at DLR whereas WDW has the "luxury of space" that time and time again is thoughtlessly utilized. We should absolutely be expecting each of these parks have more than 10 rides. I don't understand how management justifies keeping the count so low for their so-called "flagship" WDW.

The Blessing of Size, as Walt called it, unfortunately hasn't been utilized in 20 years aside from the occasional hotel expansion. I simply don't understand how WDW doesn't have double the amount of attractions DLR has... We shouldn't have around 50 while the west coast has like 70. The vacation experience would be so much better if DAK, Studios, and Epcot each got 3-5 new ground-up attractions and then replaced those that desperately need it (Voyage of the Little Mermaid, Launch Bay, Imagination, etc). Plus more guests would be staying in the park longer and then would likely spend more money.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

The Blessing of Size, as Walt called it, unfortunately hasn't been utilized in 20 years aside from the occasional hotel expansion. I simply don't understand how WDW doesn't have double the amount of attractions DLR has... We shouldn't have around 50 while the west coast has like 70. The vacation experience would be so much better if DAK, Studios, and Epcot each got 3-5 new ground-up attractions and then replaced those that desperately need it (Voyage of the Little Mermaid, Launch Bay, Imagination, etc). Plus more guests would be staying in the park longer and then would likely spend more money.

It’s crazy how few attractions MK has compared to Disneyland.

In a few years we will get 1 cloned coaster. And not a particularly amazing one (it’s fine, it will be fun.)

New Fantasyland should have looked like what Tokyo is getting. Storybook Circus should have a theatre show, Casey jr. and storybook canal boats.

Main Street Theatre is needed.

Adventureland and Frontierland both have room for expansion and Tomorrowland needs a total update.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The Blessing of Size, as Walt called it, unfortunately hasn't been utilized in 20 years aside from the occasional hotel expansion. I simply don't understand how WDW doesn't have double the amount of attractions DLR has... We shouldn't have around 50 while the west coast has like 70. The vacation experience would be so much better if DAK, Studios, and Epcot each got 3-5 new ground-up attractions and then replaced those that desperately need it (Voyage of the Little Mermaid, Launch Bay, Imagination, etc). Plus more guests would be staying in the park longer and then would likely spend more money.

It’s crazy how few attractions MK has compared to Disneyland.

In a few years we will get 1 cloned coaster. And not a particularly amazing one (it’s fine, it will be fun.)

New Fantasyland should have looked like what Tokyo is getting. Storybook Circus should have a theatre show, Casey jr. and storybook canal boats.

Main Street Theatre is needed.

Adventureland and Frontierland both have room for expansion and Tomorrowland needs a total update.

Define attraction....

Orlando and Anaheim have the same number of *rides*. Because Orlando has to spread them between four parks, MK has less *rides* than DL, but the two complexes have the same number of rides.

Orlando has a ton more non-ride attractions including a zoo. Plus more resort-y things like golf courses and fishing and the like, as well as a ton more themed lodgings.