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The War on Brats

Do you think it's OK for restaurants to set and enforce rules for misbehaving kids?

  • Yes

    Votes: 58 89.2%
  • No

    Votes: 7 10.8%

  • Total voters
    65
  • Poll closed .

speck76

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
War on Brats

Café's move to boot bad kids kicks up skirmish between the childless and the child-centered.

By Jodi Wilgoren / New York Times


CHICAGO -- Bridget Dehl shushed her 21-month-old son Gavin, then clapped a hand over his mouth to squelch his tiny screams amid the Sunday brunch bustle. When Gavin kept yelping "yeah, yeah, yeah," Dehl quickly whisked him from his highchair and out the door.

Right past the sign warning the cafe's customers that "Children of all ages have to behave and use their indoor voices when coming to A Taste of Heaven," and right into a nasty spat roiling the stroller set in Chicago's changing Andersonville neighborhood.

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The owner of A Taste of Heaven, Dan McCauley, said he posted the sign -- at child level, with playful handprints -- in the hope of quieting his tin-ceilinged cafe, where toddlers have been known to sprawl between tables and hurl themselves at display cases for sport.

But many neighborhood mothers took umbrage at the implied criticism of how they handle their children. Soon, whispers of a boycott passed among the playgroups in this North Side hamlet, once an outpost of edgy artists and hip gay couples but now a hot real estate market for young professional families shunning the suburbs.

"I love people who don't have children who tell you how to parent," said Alison Miller, 35, a psychologist, corporate coach and mother of two. "I'd love for him to be responsible for three children for the next year and see if he can control the volume of their voices every minute of the day."

McCauley, 44, said the protesting parents are "former cheerleaders and beauty queens" who "have a very strong sense of entitlement." In an open letter to the community, he warned of an "epidemic" of anti-social behavior.

"Part of parenting skills is teaching kids they behave differently in a restaurant than they do on the playground," McCauley said. "If you send out positive energy, positive energy returns to you. If you send out energy that says I'm the only one that matters, it's going to be a pretty chaotic world."

And so simmers another skirmish between the childless and the child-centered, a culture clash increasingly common in restaurants and other public spaces as a new generation of busy, older, well-off parents ferry little ones with them.

• An online petition urging child-free sections in North Carolina restaurants drew hundreds of signers, including Janelle Funk, who wrote, "Whenever a hostess asks me 'smoking or nonsmoking?' I respond, 'No kids!' "

• At Mendo Bistro in Fort Bragg, Calif., the owners declare "Well-behaved children and parents welcome" to try to stop unmonitored youngsters from tap-dancing on the 100-year-old wood floors.

• Menus at Zumbro Cafe in Minneapolis say: "We love children, especially when they're tucked into chairs and behaving," which Barbara Daenzer said she read as an invitation to cease her weekly breakfast visits when her son was born.

• Even at the Full Moon in Cambridge, Mass., a cafe created for families, there are rules about inside voices and a "No lifeguard on duty" sign to remind parents to take responsibility. "You run the risk when you start monitoring behavior," said the Full Moon's owner, Sarah Wheaton. "You can say no cell phones to people, but you can't say your father speaks too loudly, he has to keep his voice down. And you can't really say your toddler is too loud when she's eating."

Here in Chicago, parents have denounced Toast, a popular Lincoln Park breakfast spot, as unwelcoming since a note about using inside voices appeared on the menu six months ago.

The owner of John's Place established a separate "family-friendly" room a year ago, only to face parental threats of lawsuits.

When a retail clerk in Andersonville asked a woman to stop breast-feeding last spring, "the neighborhood set him straight real fast," said Mary Ann Smith, the area's alderwoman.

Things got ugly

After a dozen years at one site, McCauley moved A Taste of Heaven six blocks away in May 2004, to a busy corner on Clark Street. The clientele is whiter, wealthier and louder, he said. Teachers and writers seeking afternoon refuge were drowned out not just by children running amok but also by oblivious cell phone chatterers.

Children were climbing the cafe's poles. A couple were blithely reading the newspaper while their daughter lay on the floor blocking the line for coffee. When the family whose children were running across the room to flail themselves against the display cases left after his admonishment, McCauley recalled, the restaurant erupted in applause.

So he put up the sign. Then things really got ugly.

"The looks I would get when I went in there made me so nervous that I would try to buy the food as fast as I could and get out," said Laura Brauer, 40, who has stopped visiting Taste with her two kids.

"I think that the mothers who allow their kids to run around and scream, that's wrong, but kids scream and there is nothing you can do about it. What are we supposed to do, not enjoy ourselves at a cafe?"

Miller said that one day when her son, then 4 months old, was fussing, a staff member rolled her eyes and announced for all to hear, "We've got a screamer!"

Kim Cavitt recalled having coffee and a cookie one afternoon with her boisterous 2-year-old when "someone came over and said you just need to keep her quiet or you need to leave."

"We left, and we haven't been back since," Cavitt said. "You go to a coffee shop or a bakery for a rest, to relax, and that you would have to worry the whole time about your child doing something that children do -- really what they're saying is they don't welcome children, they want the child to behave like an adult."

Why suffer such scorn, the mothers said, when clerks at the Swedish Bakery, a neighborhood institution, offer children -- calm or crying -- free cookies? Why confront such criticism when the recently opened Sweet Occasions, a five-minute walk down Clark Street, designed the bathroom aisle to accommodate double strollers and offers a child-size ice cream cone for $1.50? (At A Taste of Heaven, the smallest costs $3.75.)

"It's his business; he has the right to put whatever sign he wants on the door," Miller said. "And people have the right to respond to that sign however they want."

Owner won't back down

McCauley said he had received kudos from several restaurant owners in the area, though none had followed his lead. He has certainly lost customers because of the sign, but some parents say the offense is outweighed by their addiction to the scones, and others embrace the effort at etiquette.

"The litmus test for me is if they have high chairs or not," said Dehl, the woman who scooped her screaming son from his seat during brunch, as she waited out his restlessness on a sidewalk bench. "The fact that they had one high chair, and the fact that he's the only child in the restaurant is an indication that it's an adult place, and if he's going to do his toddler thing we should take him out and let him run around."

McCauley said he would rather go out of business than back down. He likens this one small step toward good manners to his personal effort to decrease pollution by only hiring employees who live close enough to walk to work.

"I can't change the situation in Iraq; I can't change the situation in New Orleans," he said. "But I can change this little corner of the world."
 

tigsmom

Well-Known Member
You already know where I stand on this.

I have one problem with the above mentioned policy... Children of all ages...

What is appropriate for one age is not for another. I have trouble with people making sweeping generalizations. While I would not have clamped my hand over my child's mouth to keep him quiet ( guess what... that makes little kids louder) I would have taken him out (and we have in the past) until he can quiet down.

The owner of A Taste of Heaven, Dan McCauley, said he posted the sign -- at child level, with playful handprints -- in the hope of quieting his tin-ceilinged cafe, where toddlers have been known to sprawl between tables and hurl themselves at display cases for sport.

I don't think his establishment will ever be totally quiet, but I agree with keeping the kids in highchairs or on parent's laps for the entire meal. If you are not willing to do this then please, do not take your child in in the first place.

*mom of 2 *
 

Birdlady

New Member
How timely! Just last night we went to dinner and the booth next to us had two kids, about 3 years old. The one kid was practically climbing over the booth back to our table, hanging over and hitting my mother, while the other had the salad tongs and was banging them on the mirror hanging on the wall, getting spooge all over it! They wer yelling and running in the aisle where the waiters carry hot food. The parents didn't even try to discipline those children. Very Frustrating!!!!

His restaurant, his money, he should be able to do what he wishes. Point in that article is made with the anger over the "family friendly" room at another restaurant. Why would folks be mad over that? I would think they should be glad they can relax a little more in there.

I am blessed! My daughter is, and has always been very good at restaurants...however, my niece has been physically removed more than once by her mother:veryconfu
 

Erika

Moderator
I think John and I are lucky in that we have a lot of family around (including my retired parents :D ) who will be more than willing to babysit when we want to go out. I know it's not that easy for everybody, and I know that you can't control everything. Still, I've seen some pretty interesting things. There is no way my brother or I would have ever gotten away with leaving the table, throwing things, or visiting other diners the way I've seen some kids do. There is also no way our parents would have taken us out in the first place if we were crabby or tired.

I think a lot of restaurants are smart in providing crayons and games to keep kids busy. I also think some restaurants are really meant for adults only.

I like the idea of a family section, but I also think parents need to PAY ATTENTION TO THEIR CHILDREN. When I was in the dental field, I was shocked at the number of children who would get in the way and even pick up our instruments and syringes off the tray as we were trying to work. A few times they jostled the dentist's arm as he was trying to drill. I can't tell you how many times the parents got mad at US for telling their kids what to do, as Mom or Dad lay back doing absolutely nothing. Of course, had any of those kids been injured, theirs would have been the first parents to sue :rolleyes: Worse than that, I temped at an office once that kept its sharps container in the open. I walked into the operatory to find the mother flipping through a magazine while gabbing on a cell phone as her daughter was just about to plunge her hand into the plastic container full of used needles.
 

BRER STITCH

Well-Known Member
It comes down to parents taking less and less responsibility for their children's behavior in public and unleashing them on the unsuspecting public while they try to eat a meal.

It's not just restaurants....it's shopping centers, movie theaters, public parks, etc..... Kids who were never disciplined by THEIR parents are now having kids of their own, and the cycle continues....

I was surprised to see a little restaurant in my own town have a similar sign posted, and I have to admit....I am MORE likely to return there now than ever! :lol: When restaurant owners have to resort to offering parenting tips about proper behavior to their guests, it's probably about time someone answers the wake-up call and adjusts their OWN behavior accordingly.

VIVA the CHILDLESS EATERIES!!!!

:sohappy: :sohappy: :sohappy:
 

speck76

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I relate Children to Cell Phones

Some people love them, some people hate them....either way, they can be annoying in public if the proper steps to control them are not taken.
 

wannab@dis

Well-Known Member
So far, we've been pretty lucky with our little girl. She's 19mo and does good most of the times. We've worked hard to make sure that she understands what she can and cannot do. The biggest key... she must act the same no matter where we are. We don't let her scream or throw things at home, much less a restaurant. It's a shame that parents don't want to TRAIN their kids and TEACH them good values and manners.

Of course, I've seen several times where the parents were behaving worse than the kids. :rolleyes:
 

barnum42

New Member
I'm sure for every self important parent who thinks their little brat is entitled to tear- all over the joint boycotts this eatery there will be at least half a dozen diners who will relish the thought of going to a venue where they can enjoy a meal in peace.

If I lived in that town, I'd go there tonight :D
 

mousermerf

Account Suspended
Good news:

The group of people most likely to read the paper and this article will benefit from the change - seriously, none of the parents of young children I know have the time to delve into page XX to find this article.
 

tigsmom

Well-Known Member
mousermerf said:
Good news:

The group of people most likely to read the paper and this article will benefit from the change - seriously, none of the parents of young children I know have the time to delve into page XX to find this article.

No matter what age my children were/are I HAVE to read my newspaper with my breakfast! :lol:
 

Shaman

Well-Known Member
Parents need to step up and take responsibility...that seems to be an issue nowadays...I think society should force PARENTS to be more responsible for their children (the world as a whole should not be responsible for kids who have living and breathing parents)..thus I think the step the restaurant took was a good one....

Some kids are too young to be in a restuarant setting...sometimes I wonder about the judgement calls some parents make...

Don't get me wrong, it isn't easy being a parent nowadays...but is it really that different than any period before? Many parents get it right...so I'm not saying it is every parent under that sun...

I wonder if Disney will take a look into this....I mean, punishment inside IASW would set some kids straight. :lookaroun

:lol:

*shrug*
 

MouseMadness

Well-Known Member
I voted yes, of course. :) I don't think it needs elaborating. :lol: I'd hope that any given establishment would get rid of any person who was being destructive and/or disruptive, be they 1 or 101 (or anywhere inbetween) .
 

Shaman

Well-Known Member
MouseMadness said:
I voted yes, of course. :) I don't think it needs elaborating. :lol: I'd hope that any given establishment would get rid of any person who was being destructive and/or disruptive, be they 1 or 101 (or anywhere inbetween) .

Exactly. :D

(that seems to my reply to all your posts...they just make sense)
 

DDuckFan130

Well-Known Member
To think that here in elementary schools teachers now have to be responsible for "character education." Because you know parents can't do that so teachers have to...:rolleyes:
 

Shaman

Well-Known Member
DDuckFan130 said:
To think that here in elementary schools teachers now have to be responsible for "character education." Because you know parents can't do that so teachers have to...:rolleyes:

What the....?!

*shakes head*
 

MouseMadness

Well-Known Member
DDuckFan130 said:
To think that here in elementary schools teachers now have to be responsible for "character education." Because you know parents can't do that so teachers have to...:rolleyes:

God bless our teachers :lol: (And future ones!! :wave: )
 

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