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The Tipping Point For Change

flynnibus

Premium Member
And mine still ask when we can go back....maybe thats really the difference after all

We just did other things. They loved their DCL cruises far more than WDW. They made friends, they did activities, they did so much more than worry about riding Peter Pan for the 15th time.

Last trip was a splurge to stay at the Beach Club too... at the end I asked them 'where next?' and given the choice they wanted to cruise again vs WDW. But my kids were older too... not toddler stuff.
 

DisneyMusician2

Well-Known Member
I respectfully disagree.

Right or wrong, the complaints I see (and have expressed here myself) have more to do with Disney simply not delivering what it used to deliver, rather than its failure to achieve some impossible, imagined ideal.
What it used to deliver is also in the eye of the beholder, if we're talking about DME and mickey soap I believe those are semantic arguments. I believe many of the IP changes have been improvements over the 80s and provide even more connection to my family's experience at home.

But I understand I'm often in the minority as I voice some of these things, so all I hope to do is provide a counterpoint and dose of reality for a few of these things.
 

DisneyMusician2

Well-Known Member
We just did other things. They loved their DCL cruises far more than WDW. They made friends, they did activities, they did so much more than worry about riding Peter Pan for the 15th time.

Last trip was a splurge to stay at the Beach Club too... at the end I asked them 'where next?' and given the choice they wanted to cruise again vs WDW. But my kids were older too... not toddler stuff.
Hahah and see my kids hated DCL compared to their NCL experiences so we do that now instead...all about what they ask for again
 

skypilot2922

Well-Known Member
It does... although I don't remember it being that way when I started lurking here over 10 years ago. I wonder, am I just remembering it as a more positive place than it was, or were people simply happier here 10 years ago because Disney was doing a better job then?

i think things were better done by Disney 10 years ago. The rot set in when FP+ was sold to the board as a replacement for new attractions
 

skypilot2922

Well-Known Member
Declines in service from staff
Declines in amenities from facilities
Declines in show standards
Declines in value for prices paid
Declines in uniqueness in offerings like food
Stagnation of product (I have no interest in seeing Indiana Jones Stunt Spectacular after 20+ years of the same thing)
Going from a wow experience to a nickle and dimed experience
Declines in enjoyment due to the stress of organizing/running a trip
Declines in the 'resort' vacation instead of just being park commandos for 5-7 days

Used to be staying at a Deluxe Hotel on property was a 360 experience... being wow'd in the parks and back at your room. Now... I can get more wow moments from a random chain around town. Or goto Vegas and pay, but get actual treatment. Or go on a DCL cruise and remember what relaxation and service is supposed to be.

The whole thing is too much work, a shadow of itself in so many facets, and priced like a luxury trip which it is not.

You nailed it, it used to be a 360 wow experience, now the only wow is ‘wow how did it cost so much for so little’
 

ppete1975

Well-Known Member
At least you tried it. I'm talking about those who never did and never will. I don't want to call 'em narrow minded....scratch that....that's exactly what they are. lol
or they dont want to think about the outside world. For me personally i love getting on the magical express and being taken to my hotel, then not thinking about driving, or my car, or parking or getting lost. I can take a boat to disney springs, i can walk around the resort then get on a bus to the parks. ITs the least stress ive had since being an adult. And i love every second of it.

that being said the loss of the magical express is a huge bubble buster for me. So next year ill be renting a car and it will change that removal from the outside world... and ill lose a day or 2 of disney to go to legoland cape Canaveral and universal.. i kind of want to go to weeki wachi as well.

I think disney is making a mistake removing me.
 

Turtlekrawl

Active Member
Just finished another trip. Have been going almost yearly since the early 80s. We had a fun time and there have been some very positive changes since our 2019 trip:

Skyliner
Mobile ordering (when MDE works)
Security checkpoints
ROTR (if you can get a boarding group)

Having said that, this was easily our worst trip in terms of frustrations/disappointments. We expected issues with staffing and knew many shows are not back up, so don’t think expectations were unreasonable. But:

-I’ve never waited so long for a drink/snack in my life. For example - 45 min at Hurricane Hanna’s. Joke’s on me as I did this twice. 2 bartenders for the entire stormalong bay is not compatible with a “deluxe” resort label.
-No beaches n cream walk up window. No drink refill station by Hurricane Hanna’s (until Friday). These require minimal staffing to open.
-every breakfast order at BC marketplace incorrect. We only ordered eggs and bacon so it was almost laughable how it happened every time.
-EPCOT is in shambles and construction moves at a snails pace. Attraction capacity is a joke. When Gran Fiesta Tour line begins in Norway, you’ve got issues.
-we were locked out of our room at check in at both Poly and BCV. magic band programming issues/phone unlock function down on and off the whole trip.
-MDE app glitches
-ride maintenance. Not uncommon for rides to be down, but when splash, thunder, HM, and pirates all down at the same time (no weather issues), it’s not good. Splash’s broken effects are well documented and quite sad.
-NO CITRUS SWIRLS!

Many others to mention. Bottom line is that we love what WDW was much more than it currently is. Will certainly be back, but not as often.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
I respectfully disagree.

Right or wrong, the complaints I see (and have expressed here myself) have more to do with Disney simply not delivering what it used to deliver, rather than its failure to achieve some impossible, imagined ideal.
I understand what your saying but the question was there was any reason why it seemed worse the last 10 years that people seem more unhappy. My response wasn't based on this board. This board represents a very small segment of the people that go to WDW. The last 10 years have started the change in generations, those that never knew what WDW was like before 10 years ago could not really have known what it was like much before that. (kids don't judge quality intensely) They are probably not the ones that complain, and those of us on the boards that take stands on lowered quality represent an even smaller portion of visitors to the place. In other words we cannot really know what or even if current younger guest are bothered by anything going on in the parks.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
or they dont want to think about the outside world. For me personally i love getting on the magical express and being taken to my hotel, then not thinking about driving, or my car, or parking or getting lost. I can take a boat to disney springs, i can walk around the resort then get on a bus to the parks. ITs the least stress ive had since being an adult. And i love every second of it.

that being said the loss of the magical express is a huge bubble buster for me. So next year ill be renting a car and it will change that removal from the outside world... and ill lose a day or 2 of disney to go to legoland cape Canaveral and universal.. i kind of want to go to weeki wachi as well.

I think disney is making a mistake removing me.
There are a lot of us that are being removed. Right now it doesn't matter, but over the last 20 years I have spent over $30K on mostly Solo Trips and that is without spending a nickel for onsite accommodations. That is lost revenue for all the connections that are needed to visit the place. Compared to what others have spent that is just a drop in the bucket.
 

skypilot2922

Well-Known Member
I respectfully disagree.

Right or wrong, the complaints I see (and have expressed here myself) have more to do with Disney simply not delivering what it used to deliver, rather than its failure to achieve some impossible, imagined ideal.

Exactly my issues with Disney all related to Disney not living up to the standards they set for themselves. It used to be Disney was the platinum standard of hospitality but now ‘we are better than Motel 6 and Golden Corrall’ is ‘good enough’
 

Benjamin_Nicholas

Premium Member
But that is the complete opposite of what built Disney to be where they are.

Disney was able to be a premium priced product because they wow'd people. Now it's a premium priced product to see what they can get away with without breaking the dam.

The sooner people realize this the better: Disney today is not what Disney was or was originally intended to be.

Disney is a corporate premium product, a blue chip stock and they're charging as such. You have varying price-points within the scheme, but it's all more expensive than a typical American family vacation to the beach.

In the words of Yogi Berra, 'A nickel ain't worth a dime anymore.' Disney is not going to get cheaper. Ever.

But will it get better? That depends on how much you're willing to spend.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
The sooner people realize this the better: Disney today is not what Disney was or was originally intended to be.
Yet the company pitches itself and relies on its past. What you say i agree with - yet so many don’t understand when people say it.

today they do not have the same corporate culture and product strategy they used to build their empire.
 

Benjamin_Nicholas

Premium Member
Yet the company pitches itself and relies on its past.

Nostalgia is a powerful thing. It's used against us on the daily to sell a wide variety of crap.

It's just up to middle America to be savvy enough to see through the smokescreen and not take it personally when they finally realize that -- GASP-- Disney is out for profit and has shareholders to tend to.

No major company is who they started off as. They all have dirty hands. This is life.

A lot of Disney fanatics need a reality check.
 

DisneyMusician2

Well-Known Member
I understand what your saying but the question was there was any reason why it seemed worse the last 10 years that people seem more unhappy. My response wasn't based on this board. This board represents a very small segment of the people that go to WDW. The last 10 years have started the change in generations, those that never knew what WDW was like before 10 years ago could not really have known what it was like much before that. (kids don't judge quality intensely) They are probably not the ones that complain, and those of us on the boards that take stands on lowered quality represent an even smaller portion of visitors to the place. In other words we cannot really know what or even if current younger guest are bothered by anything going on in the parks.
I also think you're asking the cord cutting pay-to-play generation if they mind some of these things......I'm not sure they do, its a different world out there and I am not young enough to really speak to it
 

yensid67

Well-Known Member
I'm one who still gets excited about a trip back. I dont personally feel Disney is so bad that I am ready to pack it in. I'm not saying that day couldnt come, but for the present time I get enough out of the things Disney is delivering on and my family is still enjoying our trip thoroughly. I still get enough value for me and havent felt I'm being taken advantage of. Everyone is different in how they see this issue.
I cant see Disney reaching that mythical tipping point unless theres a calamity of some sorts that stops travel or the economy crashes and theres no financial stability and people stop all luxury spending. There will always be enough first timers who want to go to WDW and there will always be return visitors and locals who desire a trip back. I just cant see enough continued stoppage of WDW visitors to affect Disneys path. As long as they build new and exciting attractions it will keep the interest high.
I think the best chances of a positive change happening that everyone desires would come if and when theres a major change of the upper level personnel. Replacing them with those who are true Disney lovers who want to go back to Walts business image of what should be delivered to guests ....and whats the chances of that happening?

I am one of those people who grew up on Traditions Training as a Cast Member and learned Walt's dream and philosophy. I would love to see that come back, but each each I see things that get further and further away from Walt's original plan of Walt Disney World being enjoyed(affordable to) by everyone. I keep saying NO MORE but find myself planning my next trip as soon as I get home from the one I am on! I will be going ONE LAST TIME in 2026(my plan) and that will be it for me☹️ Its getting too expensive for someone who is on a limited budget and has to spend 3-5 yrs saving for a week at Disney
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Exactly my issues with Disney all related to Disney not living up to the standards they set for themselves. It used to be Disney was the platinum standard of hospitality but now ‘we are better than Motel 6 and Golden Corrall’ is ‘good enough’
Actually to me Golden Coral is better. Bigger choice, good food and much less cost. That's not because I live just 8 miles from the headquarters.
 

stratman50th

Well-Known Member
I think the nature of this board tends to attract a greater proportion of "pixie dusters" than may actually exist in the repeat-visitor fan base. Many who become wholly disenchanted with WDW not only stop going, but stop posting in forums like this one, so their viewpoint isn't necessarily represented.

I think the majority of people here are someplace in the middle. We see the decline but still find something worthwhile, so we may still go to WDW, but we're paring down the scale of those trips, going less frequently, and even venturing off to engage in passionate daliances with other, non-Disney destinations in Orlando and elsewhere. We may not have divorced Disney yet, but we're... well, on a bit of a break. ;)

View attachment 573997
I reached my limit back in 2012. My wife hadn't yet. (She has now). We live in Central Florida about 30 minutes west of Disney down I-4. We have an RV and I stayed at Ft Wilderness in Dec. 2018, and May 2019. The stay in 2018 was to see the decorations. We had a 3 day pass, only used 2 days. May 2019 was so my wife could go to Flower and garden and we used the one day left over from Dec. That was the last of the parks for us. We went to the Fort again in October 2020. No park tickets and we went only to meet some friends from a Ft Wilderness camping forum. We also had to run the coach as it was also stuck in the garage as a result of things we had planned being closed from the RONA. 'Ohana was closed, Trail's End was closed, resort hopping was somewhat limited although my wife got to ride the gondolas from start to finish. That was the last trip for us. She finally agreed that it was no longer worth it. Withdrawal was complete. No more dopamine hit (Pixie Dust to some). Don't get me wrong, Fort Wilderness was new and enjoyable, and you didn't have to leave the grounds to have fun. But October was too little to do at a high cost. Still expensive for a reduced experience.
So why am I here on this forum if I'm done with Disney? For one thing. boredom. Something to read while stuck in front of the computer for work. The other is we had taken our yearly and sometimes more, trips since 1989. I felt that there might be a question or two that I was able to answer. On that point, I have found that things have changed so much my experiences while numerous aren't really valid any longer. Those of you who have been over the last five or more years have left me in the dust.
Lastly, maybe the most important is the memories I have of the good times. My mother used to love Disney. I'm pretty sure she would be disgusted with the changes by now. The last trip as a family before she died was 2008 and she said Disney was all about the money now. Knowing her like I do, charging for resort parking would have been the final straw.
But, we still have fond memories of all those family trips throughout the years. There's other places to go now, and other things to see. We leave it to the new families to do as they will.
 
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MickeyLuv'r

Well-Known Member
or they dont want to think about the outside world. For me personally i love getting on the magical express and being taken to my hotel, then not thinking about driving, or my car, or parking or getting lost. I can take a boat to disney springs, i can walk around the resort then get on a bus to the parks. ITs the least stress ive had since being an adult. And i love every second of it.

that being said the loss of the magical express is a huge bubble buster for me. So next year ill be renting a car and it will change that removal from the outside world... and ill lose a day or 2 of disney to go to legoland cape Canaveral and universal.. i kind of want to go to weeki wachi as well.

I think disney is making a mistake removing me.
While I appreciate your opinion, personally, I find waiting on a bus to be frustrating. To me, driving is less stressful unless I'm like on I-4 stuck in a traffic jam.

If the bus doesn't arrive for 20 minutes, that's 20 minutes I could have been doing something else. Attraction queues are - generally - less annoying because they progress. I also don't mind the shuttle boats at Universal because the wait is usually less than 5 minutes.

I'm actually a little curious, how do people not get aggravated when they are trying to take a bus to an ADR, but the bus doesn't show, and that = (really) late to the ADR?
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
I still enjoy the parks, never had much use for the pricey rest of it. I still enjoy the attractions (assuming they will all be open again at some point) but I am not a planner, I do not like to be locked in a schedule, I do not like to have no flexibility or so little that it is overridden by the things that have to be done just to gain access. How I, as a "guest"' have to take all the risks of losses and Disney won't take any. For example if 3 months out I have to decide that on Tuesday I have to be in MK (or any park for that matter) and it is a torrential rain day, I either have to spend the day soaking wet and not being able to do outside attractions and can't really switch anything because I made a reservation for that day and I no longer can easily just not go that day, and maybe not easily go the next day if my schedule allows.

Through the years I always had the ability to use my PAID FOR days in the park at a later date if time didn't allow me to used it right away. That no longer can happen and because of that I stopped buying 10 day tickets and had to limit myself to the actual number of days I was planning. Rain or shine. If my stay time is limited to the 3 days, I just gave Disney a bunch of my hard earned money with no refunds. I wonder how they would feel if I stuck my hand in one of the cash registers at the stores and just stole a days admission from them. That is why I am very hesitant to even plan on going now. I am not one that thinks the quality has changed. Perhaps the time spent in them has been cut back but and with FP they no longer spend time or money planning the queue lines interesting and increased your time in them, but technology has changed a lot and to me that has made up for some of the lost attraction time experience. My main road block is the lack of spontaneity.
 
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plawren2

Active Member
We are going in November, will be my 15 lifetime visit to WDW (since 1971) and for wife and adult kids it will be 6th or 7th. Doubt we will be back any time in near future, and I feel really bad for parents with young kids and those with grandkids having to deal with what it now takes to plan and afford a great WDW trip. Not even sure whether when I get to point to having and taking grandkids (likely 10+ years from now) if I would make the effort. We can afford occasional WDW trip, have vacation weeks to take, just not so sure WDW or DL is where we would choose to go in future. Last trip for any of us was 2016, and since we have taken other trips and vacations as couple and with kids (except none in 2020) that were just as fun and enjoyable, complex planning but manageable, and per day cost was less. I have years of experience planning WDW trips and November one is leaving me more uncertain and dealing with details (none directly related to COVID or travel) than ever before. Not sure how any first time visitor can manage to plan and enjoy WDW these days. Its sad.
 

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