The Tipping Point For Change

[flynnibus]

Another way of looking at the question is whether there are any specific aspects of WDW that are unacceptable to you.

Declines in service from staff
Declines in amenities from facilities
Declines in show standards
Declines in value for prices paid
Declines in uniqueness in offerings like food
Stagnation of product (I have no interest in seeing Indiana Jones Stunt Spectacular after 20+ years of the same thing)
Going from a wow experience to a nickle and dimed experience
Declines in enjoyment due to the stress of organizing/running a trip
Declines in the 'resort' vacation instead of just being park commandos for 5-7 days

Used to be staying at a Deluxe Hotel on property was a 360 experience... being wow'd in the parks and back at your room. Now... I can get more wow moments from a random chain around town. Or goto Vegas and pay, but get actual treatment. Or go on a DCL cruise and remember what relaxation and service is supposed to be.

The whole thing is too much work, a shadow of itself in so many facets, and priced like a luxury trip which it is not.

 

[donsullivan]

But that is the complete opposite of what built Disney to be where they are.

Disney was able to be a premium priced product because they wow'd people. Now it's a premium priced product to see what they can get away with without breaking the dam.

And in that era where they were wowing people, we didn't have the Internet for so many to obsess about every minute detail and adjustment that happens. We didn't have the Internet for people to push their OCD about minute details and changes that have been happening for decades- you just didn't know it because we didn't have Smartphones for instant photo's and the Internet to share and obsess about them.

When a thread gets created to count how many shells are in a performance of a fireworks show I believe the so-called fan community has jumped the shark. The uber fan most represented here, does not represent most of the guests who visit WDW on an annual basis. The VAST major of Disney visitors don't pay any attention to any of this stuff that is whined about so obsessively here. They do notice the price increases but guess what- people having been complaining about the price of Disney trip since the mid 80's when Eisner and Wells were hired to 'unlock the value' of the parks. This is nothing new. People reach a threshold where it's time for them to spend their vacation dollars in different places each year and move on to those things. That has been happening since 1971 and will always happen.

 

[aliceismad]

Or goto Vegas and pay, but get actual treatment.

We used to do Vegas once or twice a year, and there got to be a point around 2014 or so where it no longer felt like some special fun getaway the way it did before. I couldn't put my finger on exactly why. Declining service was part of it, despite staying in the nicer hotels - Wynn/Encore, Aria, Bellagio. Part of it was perhaps that Vegas was catering to a different demographic - more ultra lounge people. But also might've been location fatigue. So we took a break. Spent more time other places. We do a lot of beaches and cruises. Now that kiddo is getting bigger we can do more Europe and Asia.

But I'm still wowed by Disney most often than not.

 

[flynnibus]

And in that era where they were wowing people, we didn't have the Internet for so many to obsess about every minute detail and adjustment that happens. We didn't have the Internet for people to push their OCD about minute details and changes that have been happening for decades- you just didn't know it because we didn't have Smartphones for instant photo's and the Internet to share and obsess about them.

But that point of view is not absolute for all cases. Just because there isn't a discussion of something doesn't mean people were necessarily oblivious to it.

Plenty of companies and products go the way of the dodo before the internet and without dedicated forums about the product

Yes, there are people that 'study' the product to a point beyond their own consumption of the product and debate what that means.

But...

There are also tons of people that saw change in the parks but maybe couldn't quantify why... or couldn't quite put their finger on the deltas that were happening. They made their own conclusions - even without an online community that might flush out what they were thinking or observing.

When a thread gets created to count how many shells are in a performance of a fireworks show I believe the so-called fan community has jumped the shark.

It's perfectly valid discussion - but I wouldn't agree with anyone who would dismiss the importance of 'material impact' or similar before decrying the product dead because of a few shell changes

The uber fan most represented here, does not represent most of the guests who visit WDW on an annual basis. The VAST major of Disney visitors don't pay any attention to any of this stuff that is whined about so obsessively here

Same could be said about Cars... Grocery Stores... whatever. And know what, people still take their observations and thoughts into their consumer habits. Just because it's obsessed more here (or even to a fault) doesn't nullify the change, or maybe it's impact on guests.

Yes this audience is different (we are fans who spend time nearly every day on a site focused on the topic) - that doesn't mean the lay don't see or feel similar things.. even if they don't invest the same in the topic.

 

[flynnibus]

Part of it was perhaps that Vegas was catering to a different demographic - more ultra lounge people.

Totally agree - I don't jive with that crowd or lifestyle so that has been a huge turnoff to me as well. So much of their product has slanted to that style that it caused gaps elsewhere. Has certainly influenced my experiences out there in recent years.

I think Vegas of the 90s and 2000s were just a lead example of 'everyone catching up' to Disney in the themed entertainment genre and their emphasis on luxury/service (with so much money flowing of course..) put so much of Disney's 70s and 80s tastes in the backseat.

The world watched Disney and learned and copied... Disney bloated and stagnanted and seemed to focus more on capitalizing on its reputation more than its actual delivery.

I'm a self-admitted Disney Geek - I just find less enjoyment in the actual product put forth these days.

 

[The Colonel]

I feel like 10 or 15 years ago, negativity was run off the board. Now it is the norm. People Love Disney World, Disneyland, and Walt's legacy, but they hate the current Disney management.

 

[The Colonel]

We used to do Vegas once or twice a year, and there got to be a point around 2014 or so where it no longer felt like some special fun getaway the way it did before. I couldn't put my finger on exactly why. Declining service was part of it, despite staying in the nicer hotels - Wynn/Encore, Aria, Bellagio. Part of it was perhaps that Vegas was catering to a different demographic - more ultra lounge people. But also might've been location fatigue. So we took a break. Spent more time other places. We do a lot of beaches and cruises. Now that kiddo is getting bigger we can do more Europe and Asia.

But I'm still wowed by Disney most often than not.

I used to love Las Vegas, but the last time we went, I felt overwhelmed by douchebags. You couldn't swing a cat without hitting a douchebag. I ran out of douchebag repellent and had to leave.

 

[LittleBuford]

Which is really interesting because all the conservation and animal work they do is one of the reasons I go when I compare it to other zoo attractions.

Don’t get me wrong. I welcome conservation efforts as well as sanctuaries for vulnerable animals, but most zoos (including Animal Kingdom) are filled with creatures that are not endangered in any way and have simply been bred for captivity.

 

[LittleBuford]

Declines in service from staff
Declines in amenities from facilities
Declines in show standards
Declines in value for prices paid
Declines in uniqueness in offerings like food
Stagnation of product (I have no interest in seeing Indiana Jones Stunt Spectacular after 20+ years of the same thing)
Going from a wow experience to a nickle and dimed experience
Declines in enjoyment due to the stress of organizing/running a trip
Declines in the 'resort' vacation instead of just being park commandos for 5-7 days

Used to be staying at a Deluxe Hotel on property was a 360 experience... being wow'd in the parks and back at your room. Now... I can get more wow moments from a random chain around town. Or goto Vegas and pay, but get actual treatment. Or go on a DCL cruise and remember what relaxation and service is supposed to be.

The whole thing is too much work, a shadow of itself in so many facets, and priced like a luxury trip which it is not.

I’m sorry the experience has declined so much for you. It seems you’re well past the tipping point. I’m still nowhere near it.

 

[Ahsoka102]

In contrast, visiting Disney World is increasingly like trying to direct a large-scale military operation, wherein I feel like Disney is the enemy, working against me to deprive me of resources, remove all previous strategic advantages, and generally make our visits as demanding and unpredictable as possible.

To be sure, we have fun both places -- but WDW makes me work and plan ahead for it. Universal doesn't.

I love this analogy! I feel the same way. And its not like I completely shy away from planning and expect to show up with no strategy, touring plans, etc. and expect everything to work out perfectly. I am a planner by nature and I am willing to put the work in to try and ensure that my family has a good time when we get there. But it is starting to get even too much for me. Having to "practice" at 7am getting a BG for RoTR months before a trip with hopes that my fingers (and my phone) will be fast enough to secure a BG in those first 7 seconds before they are all gone is a little ridiculous. But this is what I am reduced to with hopes that it gives me some sort of advantage to be able to get on this ride. There has got to be a better way.

 

[Jrb1979]

For me I have a child that's almost 2 and would love to take her. It saddens me to see parks that were at their best in the 80's and 90's to a parks that plastered with IP overload.
Being away from the parks for a few years I realized that some of the regional parks offer almost the same thing for much cheaper.

 

[Dog Ate Mouse]

I listen to all on this board and try and understand. Here is take. I go to WDW and tear up a little every time we start the check in or arrive in the hotel lobby. This is a place4 that I feel like a kid again and do stupid things and wear a hat with ears and cannot get enough of Mickey and Minnie. The n I go to the parks and have one heck of a great time. If a park is too crowed we park hop. We go to the water parks, go fishing, we swim at our hotel and get drinks, Go to great dinners, Go shopping, bowling Movies and so on. When I check into WDW resort it is all paid for including my meals, All I pay for is tips and souvenirs.
The most important part is my wife and I laugh and go care free and act like a child again. I think this board loves WDW so much that we had to have a board to talk all about it be it good and or bad. Anyone can say what they want to say negative, but we are going back to WDW and can't wait. Life is short and people should remember that tomorrow may not come for some of us. Take every day as a gift. Live for today and be thankful. Tomorrow is not a guarantee for some and we all will face that day. Yes I am not going to spend all my money and bank on today is it. I do look forward to tomorrow but enjoy everything in my life right at this minute and love the ones I am with. I cannot control what happens in my life, but I can control how I deal with those issues and how I choose to live.

So Yes I am going to WDW and be a kid again.

 

[Jrb1979]

I listen to all on this board and try and understand. Here is take. I go to WDW and tear up a little every time we start the check in or arrive in the hotel lobby. This is a place4 that I feel like a kid again and do stupid things and wear a hat with ears and cannot get enough of Mickey and Minnie. The n I go to the parks and have one heck of a great time. If a park is too crowed we park hop. We go to the water parks, go fishing, we swim at our hotel and get drinks, Go to great dinners, Go shopping, bowling Movies and so on. When I check into WDW resort it is all paid for including my meals, All I pay for is tips and souvenirs.
The most important part is my wife and I laugh and go care free and act like a child again. I think this board loves WDW so much that we had to have a board to talk all about it be it good and or bad. Anyone can say what they want to say negative, but we are going back to WDW and can't wait. Life is short and people should remember that tomorrow may not come for some of us. Take every day as a gift. Live for today and be thankful. Tomorrow is not a guarantee for some and we all will face that day. Yes I am not going to spend all my money and bank on today is it. I do look forward to tomorrow but enjoy everything in my life right at this minute and love the ones I am with. I cannot control what happens in my life, but I can control how I deal with those issues and how I choose to live.

So Yes I am going to WDW and be a kid again.

It's part of why I don't have that attachment to Disney. I don't get teared up seeing the castle. or feel like a kid going there. The only thing that really gets me emotional at parks is hearing the screams on rides. I never really got into amusement parks til I was in my 30s, so my attachment is to the first parks I went to. Cedar Point is that place.

 

[KaliSplash]

I've been a member here for 6 years, and there has always been the idea (or hope) that, if enough people become dissatisfied with their WDW trips and stop visiting, that the loss in revenue would force Disney to try and figure out why people don't want to come back, and use that info to make changes to entice those people to come back and to make the WDW experience better for everyone. At this point, that tipping point, wherever it might be, keeps getting further and further away, to the point that I wonder if it will ever come into play. For every 10 people that say "I'm done with WDW-costs too much, too busy, low food quality, etc", there seems to be 40 people who can't stop snorting the pixie dust and will say "I am sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo excited! Just booked my 10th trip this year! Magic, magic, magic! " Even if that mythical tipping point was reached, would positive change even be an option for Disney, instead of yet another "Well, let's just cut more operating costs, reduce hours and what we offer, and charge the addicts more-they'll never stop coming."

There is no tipping point.

 

[Goofyernmost]

It does... although I don't remember it being that way when I started lurking here over 10 years ago. I wonder, am I just remembering it as a more positive place than it was, or were people simply happier here 10 years ago because Disney was doing a better job then?

People were generally happier back then. They didn't OD on sensitivity pills and were able to appreciate what was there and not always want more without any consideration to even the slightest idea that some of the stuff just isn't possible. When it comes to theme parks they expect the theme parks to do all the imagining for them and sadly probably aren't able to imagine things on their own. It must be 100% reality because that is what their iPads seemed to be giving them.

 

[Weather_Lady]

People were generally happier back then. They didn't OD on sensitivity pills and were able to appreciate what was there and not always want more without any consideration to even the slightest idea that some of the stuff just isn't possible. When it comes to theme parks they expect the theme parks to do all the imagining for them and sadly probably aren't able to imagine things on their own. It must be 100% reality because that is what their iPads seemed to be giving them.

I respectfully disagree.

Right or wrong, the complaints I see (and have expressed here myself) have more to do with Disney simply not delivering what it used to deliver, rather than its failure to achieve some impossible, imagined ideal.

 

[The Colonel]

I listen to all on this board and try and understand. Here is take. I go to WDW and tear up a little every time we start the check in or arrive in the hotel lobby. This is a place4 that I feel like a kid again and do stupid things and wear a hat with ears and cannot get enough of Mickey and Minnie. The n I go to the parks and have one heck of a great time. If a park is too crowed we park hop. We go to the water parks, go fishing, we swim at our hotel and get drinks, Go to great dinners, Go shopping, bowling Movies and so on. When I check into WDW resort it is all paid for including my meals, All I pay for is tips and souvenirs.
The most important part is my wife and I laugh and go care free and act like a child again. I think this board loves WDW so much that we had to have a board to talk all about it be it good and or bad. Anyone can say what they want to say negative, but we are going back to WDW and can't wait. Life is short and people should remember that tomorrow may not come for some of us. Take every day as a gift. Live for today and be thankful. Tomorrow is not a guarantee for some and we all will face that day. Yes I am not going to spend all my money and bank on today is it. I do look forward to tomorrow but enjoy everything in my life right at this minute and love the ones I am with. I cannot control what happens in my life, but I can control how I deal with those issues and how I choose to live.

So Yes I am going to WDW and be a kid again.

I have multiple trips booked. I've gone three times since they reopened from the scamdemic. I have a cruise booked. I love it. I have a blast when I'm there for the most part. But here I get to complain about how it could be so much better, and how it is undoubtedly going downhill. If I can't complain here on a Disney forum, where can I? Disney sure as hell doesn't listen. Just because we see the decline doesn't mean we're not enjoying our life. Remember what Socrates said, "an unexamined Disney, is not worth visiting."

 

[flynnibus]

I’m sorry the experience has declined so much for you. It seems you’re well past the tipping point. I’m still nowhere near it.

It was real easy when you ask your kids and family where do they want to go... and they didn't say WDW.

 

[DisneyMusician2]

It was real easy when you ask your kids and family where do they want to go... and they didn't say WDW.

And mine still ask when we can go back....maybe thats really the difference after all

 

[skypilot2922]

I think the nature of this board tends to attract a greater proportion of "pixie dusters" than may actually exist in the repeat-visitor fan base. Many who become wholly disenchanted with WDW not only stop going, but stop posting in forums like this one, so their viewpoint isn't necessarily represented.

I think the majority of people here are someplace in the middle. We see the decline but still find something worthwhile, so we may still go to WDW, but we're paring down the scale of those trips, going less frequently, and even venturing off to engage in passionate daliances with other, non-Disney destinations in Orlando and elsewhere. We may not have divorced Disney yet, but we're... well, on a bit of a break.

View attachment 573997

Sold DVC renewed my pilots license and bought a plane. Funny thing family can fly down to MCO with me for about what it costs to fly southwest and we and the weather are in control of where we are going, best thing no TSA gropefest or long terminal lines.

there is lots of america to see with a small plane plus all the weird and wonderful expermentals one i saw the other day was a powered glider thing looks like the love child of a glider and a wind turbine