The Super Mario Bros. Movie not doing that great...

[Sir_Cliff]

I think Luca was a beautiful movie and I think Encanto… had a good song.

It’s impossible to say how either would have done outside of their release circumstances but they were also two in a sea of other movies people don’t talk much about.

Budget doesn’t have to be Chicken Little.

Lilo and Stitch was a well made economy movie.

Fun doesn’t have to mean Chicken Little.

Moana was a big adventure movie with a message, that I don’t think hung that hard on the message.

The last Toy Story movie was about… retirement?

Again, not saying there isn’t room for both but it doesn’t feel to me like they’ve been making both for the last several years.

I don't think many people would argue that Lightyear and Strange World were successes on m/any levels and examples of what they should be aspiring to going forward. It does also at least seem that costs are out of control, but then I don't really feel qualified to judge how much one of these films should cost.

I guess my main point would be that I think stories of Disney and Pixar's demise have been greatly exaggerated. They have had a few misfires lately and are struggling to figure out how to make money at the box office in the era of Disney+. I also find it a bit hard to know what sort of lesson Disney can draw from Mario's success given the power of the IP. Certainly not everything has to be some grand drama or a 'message' film, though I kind of feel something like Luca is a nice example of a film that wasn't too heavy but still had the sort of heart people look for in a Disney or Pixar film.

 

[erasure fan1]

I guess my main point would be that I think stories of Disney and Pixar's demise have been greatly exaggerated. They have had a few misfires lately and are struggling to figure out how to make money at the box office in the era of Disney+.

I'd say it's been more than a few. That said, I hardly think there's any real chance of a "demise" of Disney. At least not in the next 10 to 15yrs. They still have a lot of people that nostalgia reigns supreme. So once they decide to focus on telling great stories again, the fans will come back.

I also find it a bit hard to know what sort of lesson Disney can draw from Mario's success given the power of the IP. Certainly not everything has to be some grand drama or a 'message' film,

The lesson is simple. Make a fun family friendly film, on a respectable budget, that isn't focused on some grand message. And you'll probably be golden.

A lot of Disneys problem is a perception problem. From what I've seen, the Mario movies budget was 100mil. So basically if it makes zero more dollars, it's still a big hit. With such giant budgets, you force the movie to be a monster hit or be considered a flop. There's a trickle down effect as well. With D+ being their focus, too much negative press can push people to pass the theatrical release and wait for D+.

 

[MrPromey]

I don't think many people would argue that Lightyear and Strange World were successes on m/any levels and examples of what they should be aspiring to going forward. It does also at least seem that costs are out of control, but then I don't really feel qualified to judge how much one of these films should cost.

I think a good rule of thumb is, they should spend less than they expect to make off them.

I guess my main point would be that I think stories of Disney and Pixar's demise have been greatly exaggerated. They have had a few misfires lately and are struggling to figure out how to make money at the box office in the era of Disney+. I also find it a bit hard to know what sort of lesson Disney can draw from Mario's success given the power of the IP. Certainly not everything has to be some grand drama or a 'message' film, though I kind of feel something like Luca is a nice example of a film that wasn't too heavy but still had the sort of heart people look for in a Disney or Pixar film.

I don't see a demise.

Many thought it was the end after Home on the Range.

They seem to go through periods where things go up and down.

And again, I'm not saying most of what they've made in recent years was bad. I didn't think Strange Planet was great but I also don't think it was bad (we saw it opening weekend - in a theater).

I liked Soul enough to buy a t-shirt.

I loved Luca.

But... I'll put it this way:

Can you explain the plot to Encanto to me? Not the deeper meaning the whole story represents but the actual story in a way that makes sense? I feel like a decent number of their recent releases suffer in actual story, to better serve their intended takeaways.


... for now, at least, they'll get some royalties from the new Spiderverse movie on the way, though.

 

[SplashJacket]

I find it interesting people want new concepts and fresh ideas instead of rehashing existing franchises for the 50th time. Yet, now they are complaining that Disney's riskier original concept films have performed worse than an existing brand.

Saw it said elsewhere, but companies will likely learn all the wrong lessons from this movie.

 

[MrPromey]

I find it interesting people want new concepts and fresh ideas instead of rehashing existing franchises for the 50th time. Yet, now they are complaining that Disney's riskier original concept films have performed worse than an existing brand.

Saw it said elsewhere, but companies will likely learn all the wrong lessons from this movie.

Who here is saying we don't want new concepts and fresh ideas?*

Not me.

I'm just arguing for a better mix of what they put out.

Keep Putting out movies like Soul but something in the vein of Secret Life of Pets can exist in the same studio... or at least within the same family of studios.

Do you disagree?

*also, to play devil's advocate, do you include Lightyear in your idea of a new concept and fresh idea?

 

[BrianLo]

Disney and Pixar have each had a misfire. Can we wait a hot second to see if it’s an actual trend?

And No, Turning Red and Encanto are both huge internal successes. Poor release strategies and pandemic aside.

 

[MrPromey]

Disney and Pixar have each had a misfire. Can we wait a hot second to see if it’s an actual trend?

And No, Turning Red and Encanto are both huge internal successes. Poor release strategies and pandemic aside.

I assume you mean Raya and the Last Dragon was the Disney missfire, right?

What constitutes an internal success vs. an external success?

 

[BrianLo]

I assume you mean Raya and the Last Dragon was the Disney missfire, right?

Strange World is Disney. Raya is prior to Encanto.

 

[MrPromey]

Strange World is Disney.

Who's misfire was Raya, then?

Strange World is Disney. Raya is prior to Encanto.

I see you edited after my reply... so because it came before Encanto, it doesn't count in your rule book?

Where I'm standing, that looks like one-out-of-three that people liked and zero-out-of-three that have been financially successful.

And prior to Raya we had Frozen 2 - which was a financial success but a plot mess... kind of like Disney's other semi-recent nepo-film, Ralph Breaks the Internet.

Just my opinion but I think Moana was the last really great Disney animated feature film.

 

[BrianLo]

Who's misfire was Raya, then?



I see you edited after my reply... so because it came before Encanto, it doesn't count?

The usual claim is that this is a consistent pattern. It can’t be a pattern if you have a Moana or Frozen level project as Disney’s second most recent release, in Encanto.

Also Raya was not really a misfire. Supposedly it did ‘ok’ with that premier access thing. It is also pretty buried in the pandemic.

Strange World and Lightyear were total bombs though. It doesn’t suddenly make Strange World successful, but it destroys any narrative that Disney Animation is having a weak run when we look back on this period if Wish hits and Encanto has already hit. It just becomes a Winnie the Pooh everyone forgets about.

 

[erasure fan1]

I find it interesting people want new concepts and fresh ideas instead of rehashing existing franchises for the 50th time. Yet, now they are complaining that Disney's riskier original concept films have performed worse than an existing brand.

Saw it said elsewhere, but companies will likely learn all the wrong lessons from this movie.

What would you consider the wrong lessons? If any studio is smart, they will learn that if you are going to adapt a beloved IP. Stay true to the source material, and don't use the IP as a gateway for some other story and you will be rewarded by the fans. What the Mario movie taught me is you don't need to try and go after an audience that isn't part of the core fan base. Especially with IPs that already have huge fanbases.

What I find interesting is how many people thought Mario wasn't a big deal and that epic universe wasn't a threat. I wonder how confident Disney is right now that they have zero answer to super Nintendo land.

 

[BrianLo]

What constitutes an internal success vs. an external success?

Post theatrical merchandising, licensing and franchise longevity versus the headline original box office number.

Frozen has made 10x over its box office run in merch and franchise penetration. Encanto in particular seems to be experiencing that rare path.

 

[MrPromey]

Post theatrical merchandising and franchise longevity versus the headline original box office number.

Frozen has made 10x over its box office run in merch and franchise penetration. Encanto in particular seems to be experiencing that rare path.

Admittedly, I haven't been looking for it but I don't recall seeing much Encanto merchandise at my local Walmart or Target.

I know the soundtrack is popular.

I'd argue that 10x Encanto's box office run isn't quite in the same league as 10x Frozen's box office run, though.

 

[MrPromey]

What I find interesting is how many people thought Mario wasn't a big deal and that epic universe wasn't a threat. I wonder how confident Disney is right now that they have zero answer to super Nintendo land.

This is what I find interesting, too.

I remember people on this form predicting Mario would be a minor hit due to the IP and some existing fan base but they nor their kids nor anyone they knew was interested in it so no way was it going to be a major success... And it's already predicted to do more than a billion, now, less than a week on.

Same people said they thought the new land would be a minor success but not that big of a deal for Disney because who wants to go to a land themed after the game or ride rides based on it and anyway. Also that the potentil audience can't be that big in the US because neither they nor their kids nor anyone they know is interested in it, anyway.

Now... the argument is, it's only doing good because of the IP.*

Good IP for a bad movie means big opening weekend and horrible word-of-mouth and that's not what's happening, here.

Most video game fans are brutal with movie adaptations... and most movie adaptations are handled horribly so it's kind of deserved.

This movie was tailor made for an enormous existing fan base who doesn't need to be given back-story to catch them up on anything and who isn't going into this looking for The Godfather or for some twist to veer the franchise away from the game world that established it (ala Sonic) to make a movie from.

It's a 100% fan service movie which is why critics hate it but anything else, fans would have hated.

As such, I'd call it not a great movie in the traditional sensebut an awesome experience for any Nintendo fan.

Just the same, it launched a movie franchise and I trust Illumination to do better with a part 2 based on their sequels than I would Disney Feature Animation with anything they're planning to add to with their track record of sequels.

I hope Disney takes the potential threat more seriously than a lot of their fans do, here. Only good things can come for all of us is they actually respond in semi-real time.

... And I'm talking more than a Poppins themed teacups.

*I'm not saying the people in this discussion right now were the same people in those others. I've lost complete track since that was a tanget conversation in the parks section.

 

[erasure fan1]

Admittedly, I haven't been looking for it but I don't recall seeing much Encanto merchandise at my local Walmart or Target.

I know the soundtrack is popular.

I'd argue that 10x Encanto's box office run isn't quite in the same league as 10x Frozen's box office run, though.

There really wasn't a huge Encanto merch demand. The soundtrack did fantastic and we don't talk about Bruno was all over the place. Outside of that, the movie was well under what it needed to be. As far as I can tell, it missed the mark of profitability by at least 100mil at the box office.

 

[MrPromey]

There really wasn't a huge Encanto merch demand. The soundtrack did fantastic and we don't talk about Bruno was all over the place. Outside of that, the movie was well under what it needed to be. As far as I can tell, it missed the mark of profitability by at least 100mil at the box office.

I mean, I have nothing against this movie.

I'm glad Mirabel is going into the parks because the representation for children is important and I think this one has really good potential for a D+ series where they can have fun with the "gifts" everyone has, most of which seemed either worthless as shown in the movie or a downright burden but could be explored in a more fun way as part of an ongoing series.

 

[erasure fan1]

I remember people on this form predicting Mario would be a minor hit due to the IP and some existing fan base but they nor their kids nor anyone they knew was interested in it so no way was it going to be a major success...

I still find it entertaining when the people here discount the power of video games. An industry that makes more money than ANY other media source. My kids have gone to, count them, ZERO Disney animated films in the last 2 years. But they were at Mario opening weekend.

Same people said they thought the new land would be a minor success but not that big of a deal for Disney because who wants to go to a land themed after the game or ride rides based on it and anyway.

It's funny how those people are pretty quiet now. I'm still not sure why so many discount video games as some sort of niche thing. I get all sorts of flack for suggesting Disney should go after something like Minecraft for the parks. Nah, it's only sold a measley 238 BILLION $$$$.

I hope Disney takes the potential threat more seriously than a lot of their fans do, here. Only good things can come for all of us is they actually respond in semi-real time.

That should be a big takeaway from this. Unfortunately at the rate Disney does anything it would take an absolute miracle to have any sort of real answer in less than 5 or 6 years.

 

[flynnibus]

Just got back from watching Super Mario Movie... loved it. Immediately told my friends to take their kids.

It's a great balance of a movie that will do just fine on its own while having tons of fan service in the content. But it's not SOLELY fan service non-stop like some movies started doing around the Ready Player One fad.

Really liked most of the movie... wasn't too thrilled with the final act, but felt the first two thirds of the film were cute, fun, and on-target enough to keep even an old foggie like me engaged.

 

[MrPromey]

Just got back from watching Super Mario Movie... loved it. Immediately told my friends to take their kids.

It's a great balance of a movie that will do just fine on its own while having tons of fan service in the content. But it's not SOLELY fan service non-stop like some movies started doing around the Ready Player One fad.

Really liked most of the movie... wasn't too thrilled with the final act, but felt the first two thirds of the film were cute, fun, and on-target enough to keep even an old foggie like me engaged.

What was the Ready Player One fad?

 

[flynnibus]

What was the Ready Player One fad?

Where basically the draw to the project is more about the throw-backs, easter eggs, etc more than the actual film. The 80s retro stuff got so huge with Stranger Things, etc that people were focusing more on the set or nods... than actually creating good content.

Like most things... there is such a thing as 'too much of a good thing'. I think SMB has a good balance... the inclusions are not over the top and it doesn't feel forced all the time. You can still appreciate the characters/etc without a connection to their source.