The Status of Muppet*Vision 3D

Magenta Panther

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
Casper Gutman said:
Disney’s neglect of the Muppets has nothing to do with their actual popularity. US Disney parks have rides based on Mr. Toad, Song of the South, and Dinosaur and WDW is building an E-Ticket based on Tron, all of which I suspect have lower public profiles than Muppets. What Muppets’ needs is a champion in the upper echelon of Disney management, that’s all.

And I think it’s pretty clear how I feel about replacing classic rides, but if someone offered to save Muppetvision by replacing Presidents with the show (or to replace Presidents with a new, AA heavy show based on Great Moments), I’d probably take that deal. But that won’t happen.
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"Presidents is boring, ew, American history, they should replace all the expensive state-of-the-art AAs with 1970's hand puppets!"

Good god.

As for Disney's "neglect", well, let's see, Disney purchased the puppets when they were headed towards oblivion via the studio being broken up and sold for parts, Disney gave them multiple chances for a comeback (an online video presence via Youtube, TV appearances, one film with tepid returns, one film that flopped, one massive TV flop) and yet somehow Disney isn't doing enough, isn't investing enough money on a property that very likely hasn't made Disney one red cent. The puppets' fans also blame Disney when there isn't much puppet merch out there, without considering the salient fact that the merch isn't there BECAUSE THE PUPPET MERCH DOESN'T SELL WELL. That's why the dedicated puppet gift shop in WDW has mostly Mickey stuff in it, because duh Mickey stuff sells.

But you guys will still keep on whining that it's Disney's fault that the puppets aren't major media giants like they were in the 1970's, won't you? Can't admit that a once-clever novelty act is past its prime and beyond revival. I don't defend the Iger regime for much, but anyone saying that Disney hasn't tried with an IP it didn't need in the first place is delusional. Disney is not obliged to keep any property that doesn't deliver alive. It has no obligation to keep Jim Henson's work alive if it can't do it on its own. Disney tossed that property a life preserver, and if it drowns anyway, don't blame the rescuer. Get real.
 
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Casper Gutman

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
Magenta Panther said:
"Presidents is boring, ew, American history, they should replace all the expensive state-of-the-art AAs with 1970's hand puppets!"

Good god.

As for Disney's "neglect", well, let's see, Disney purchased the puppets when they were headed towards oblivion via the studio being broken up and sold for parts, Disney gave them multiple chances for a comeback (an online video presence via Youtube, TV appearances, one film with tepid returns, one film that flopped, one massive TV flop) and yet somehow Disney isn't doing enough, isn't investing enough money on a property that very likely hasn't made Disney one red cent. The puppets' fans also blame Disney when there isn't much puppet merch out there, without considering the salient fact that the merch isn't there BECAUSE THE PUPPET MERCH DOESN'T SELL WELL. That's why the dedicated puppet gift shop in WDW has mostly Mickey stuff in it, because duh Mickey stuff sells.

But you guys will still keep on whining that it's Disney's fault that the puppets aren't major media giants like they were in the 1970's, won't you? Can't admit that a once-clever novelty act is past its prime and beyond revival. I don't defend the Iger regime for much, but anyone saying that Disney hasn't tried with an IP it didn't need in the first place is delusional. Disney is not obliged to keep any property that doesn't deliver alive. It has no obligation to keep Jim Henson's work alive if it can't do it on its own. Disney tossed that property a life preserver, and if it drowns anyway, don't blame the rescuer. Get real.
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I will pit my knowledge of and interest in American history against yours anytime, anyplace. But my interest in that history doesn’t blind me to the fact that Presidents isn’t a great show (unlike American Adventure) and isn’t a particularly key part of Disney history (unlike DLs Great Moments). What’s more, Presidents is going to get more and more contentious in the coming years. Frankly, Disney could do a much, MUCH better show centered on US history.

And you really might want to reexamine your feelings about the Muppets. I have really strong opinions on a LOT of pop culture, and I can’t think of anything I hate with the intensity you direct at Muppets.

How much merch do you wager TRON and Dinosaur sell?
 
ImperfectPixie

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
Magenta Panther said:
"Presidents is boring, ew, American history, they should replace all the expensive state-of-the-art AAs with 1970's hand puppets!"

Good god.

As for Disney's "neglect", well, let's see, Disney purchased the puppets when they were headed towards oblivion via the studio being broken up and sold for parts, Disney gave them multiple chances for a comeback (an online video presence via Youtube, TV appearances, one film with tepid returns, one film that flopped, one massive TV flop) and yet somehow Disney isn't doing enough, isn't investing enough money on a property that very likely hasn't made Disney one red cent. The puppets' fans also blame Disney when there isn't much puppet merch out there, without considering the salient fact that the merch isn't there BECAUSE THE PUPPET MERCH DOESN'T SELL WELL. That's why the dedicated puppet gift shop in WDW has mostly Mickey stuff in it, because duh Mickey stuff sells.

But you guys will still keep on whining that it's Disney's fault that the puppets aren't major media giants like they were in the 1970's, won't you? Can't admit that a once-clever novelty act is past its prime and beyond revival. I don't defend the Iger regime for much, but anyone saying that Disney hasn't tried with an IP it didn't need in the first place is delusional. Disney is not obliged to keep any property that doesn't deliver alive. It has no obligation to keep Jim Henson's work alive if it can't do it on its own. Disney tossed that property a life preserver, and if it drowns anyway, don't blame the rescuer. Get real.
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The Muppets popularity extends WAY beyond Disney fans. I have friends who are heavy metal rockers who love them so much they actually did a cover of Can You Picture That on one of their albums. Muppets quotes have always been popular between my husband and his friends. If Disney made muppets merch and marketed it towards those of us who grew up with the original Muppet Show and included Dr. Teeth and the Electric Mayhem, it would sell.
 
FoozieBear

FoozieBear

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Cmdr_Crimson said:
Yeah but, with asking Disney might be different..You hardly see them as often. With Sesame Workshop and the Sesame Street's 50th ads it's nice they are popping up here and there..


Also, did that ad seem like it was going to cross promote the cancelled Josh Gadd Muppet film for some reason?
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Yes, because Sesame Workshop is a much smaller company whose main focus is the Sesame brand, which ultimately leads to more cross-promotion with major companies. If Disney were to want to market The Muppets, they have so many divisions (news, brands and other companies) and their disposal to partner with, which means another corporate partnership isn't rare, it's just less evident most of the time if they don't have something immediately major to promote. Sesame Workshop is a non-profit that just owns Sesame, and doesn't have that major conglomerate luxury.

Under Disney, the Muppets starred in some of their best advertising work over the year, especially surrounding the release of the two movies in 2011 and 2014.
 
erasure fan1

erasure fan1

Well-Known Member
Magenta Panther said:
The puppets' fans also blame Disney when there isn't much puppet merch out there, without considering the salient fact that the merch isn't there BECAUSE THE PUPPET MERCH DOESN'T SELL WELL.
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I do blame Disney because they are the ones controlling the merch. The vast majority of muppet merch has been underwhelming at best. So of course it's not selling.
Magenta Panther said:
It has no obligation to keep Jim Henson's work alive if it can't do it on its own. Disney tossed that property a life preserver, and if it drowns anyway, don't blame the rescuer.
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If you call throwing someone a cinder block, a life preserver. Sure, you are right on the money. Yea, they keep making little attempts at keeping them relevant. But the majority of those attempts are just not great. It goes to show, Disney doesn't understand what the muppets are. The Muppets was very well received and a greeat start to kick the muppets back off. So what do they do next? In typical Disney fashion, "hey lets do another caper!" Because hey, we're creatively dead! Oh and lets make a TV show and subvert expectations that Kermit and Piggy are broke up! Of course the Muppets aren't going break records, not with a half baked effort behind them. You are right that the Muppets will never be huge again. And I get you hate them as if Animal ate your dog. But to think that they can't fill a niche and be profitable is just a biased opinion in my eyes.
 
Cmdr_Crimson

Cmdr_Crimson

Well-Known Member
erasure fan1 said:
Disney doesn't understand what the muppets are.
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Or guests who never appreaciate the humor of them who were born when smartphones were invented..
original.jpg
 
Magenta Panther

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
Casper Gutman said:
I will pit my knowledge of and interest in American history against yours anytime, anyplace. But my interest in that history doesn’t blind me to the fact that Presidents isn’t a great show (unlike American Adventure) and isn’t a particularly key part of Disney history (unlike DLs Great Moments). What’s more, Presidents is going to get more and more contentious in the coming years. Frankly, Disney could do a much, MUCH better show centered on US history.

And you really might want to reexamine your feelings about the Muppets. I have really strong opinions on a LOT of pop culture, and I can’t think of anything I hate with the intensity you direct at Muppets.

How much merch do you wager TRON and Dinosaur sell?
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The Hall of Presidents is an original Disney creation, and it's outstanding. Pity you're unable to appreciate it. And even more pitiful that you need hand puppets to instruct you on Presidential history. Tsk.

And maybe YOU ought to examine your feelings about why you're so attached to hoary old hand puppets. Muppet cultists are damn weird. Say a word against their puppet gods and you're a soulless infidel. And the thing is, the puppets have made like 8 movies or something, each one a lesser effort, but that's just not enough for you. You gotta have more! I feel sorry for you dudes. And frankly a bit sorry for the objects of your obsession. Jim Henson is dead. Frank Oz is retired. The Muppet fad is long over. And yet you pester Disney to keep trying to resurrect those old corpses. Today's kids don't care about them. Maybe it's time you kinda, you know, let it go?

As for TRON and Dinosaur (and I can't believe I keep having to point this out) they are original Disney creations and by that pedigree alone they belong in the parks, merch sales or no merch sales. Get it now?
 
M

MiddKid

Well-Known Member
ImperfectPixie said:
The Muppets popularity extends WAY beyond Disney fans. I have friends who are heavy metal rockers who love them so much they actually did a cover of Can You Picture That on one of their albums. Muppets quotes have always been popular between my husband and his friends. If Disney made muppets merch and marketed it towards those of us who grew up with the original Muppet Show and included Dr. Teeth and the Electric Mayhem, it would sell.
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Interesting examples that are all adults. I'm a Muppet fan...grew up with them...I'd hang with your husband and his friends. But the problem lies with the kids...where the REAL merchandise sales are. I've tried numerous times over the last ten years to get my three Disney-crazy daughters into the Muppets and they simply won't bite. Using our house as a test case, I agree with @Magenta Panther that I can't fault Disney for trying to continually push this only for it to fall on deaf ears. I'm not applying our experience to everyone, just saying it's an example that supports the theory.

I have a whole set of Muppet stuffed animals (including Bean Bunny!) that I bought at MuppetVision back in the late 90s. I put them in my daughters' rooms at various points over their childhoods but guess where they are now? In my home theater. Their rooms are filled with stuffed animals, Funko Pops, and my oldest daughter even has a 22-year-old Test Track Goofy that was purchased from the merch cart the year before TT actually opened. No one wanted the Muppets. :(
 
ImperfectPixie

ImperfectPixie

Well-Known Member
MiddKid said:
Interesting examples that are all adults. I'm a Muppet fan...grew up with them...I'd hang with your husband and his friends. But the problem lies with the kids...where the REAL merchandise sales are. I've tried numerous times over the last ten years to get my three Disney-crazy daughters into the Muppets and they simply won't bite. Using our house as a test case, I agree with @Magenta Panther that I can't fault Disney for trying to continually push this only for it to fall on deaf ears. I'm not applying our experience to everyone, just saying it's an example that supports the theory.

I have a whole set of Muppet stuffed animals (including Bean Bunny!) that I bought at MuppetVision back in the late 90s. I put them in my daughters' rooms at various points over their childhoods but guess where they are now? In my home theater. Their rooms are filled with stuffed animals, Funko Pops, and my oldest daughter even has a 22-year-old Test Track Goofy that was purchased from the merch cart the year before TT actually opened. No one wanted the Muppets. :(
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Yeah, it's a shame so many kiddos missed out on the original Muppet Show. Our youngest loves Animal, but I suspect that has more to do with his speech delay and the way Animal talks than anything.
 
The Grand Inquisitor

The Grand Inquisitor

Well-Known Member
Wow I'm shocked with a lot of this Muppet hate on this forum. The Muppets are timeless and they bring a lot of joy to people including myself. As someone who dealt with depression for a long time two things helped me lifting weights and watching the muppets and Disney movies and tv shows. Plus the theme parks and my girlfriend, friends, and family helped me through it as well. Whats the harm of people liking the muppets?
 
H

Hawg G

Well-Known Member
My daughter loves the new Muppet babies cartoon, and was unhappy they closed the attraction 2 hours before close last week. Since when does Disney do that crap?
 

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