The Sponsor-less Land and Test Track's lack of Fuel

Expo_Seeker40

Expo_Seeker40

Well-Known Member
One of the problems I have with Disney is the stereotype it has placed itself in. Such as "ohh Disney is just for kids".

It certainly wasn't....well atleast not then...I'd say before the 1990s. Disney parks themselves were meant for the whole family, some rides for kids, some for teens/adults and some for the whole family. There was a variety, and Walt and his Imagineers strove for detail and design to put guests into experiences they couldn't get at their local amuseument park or carnival.

While there were various character based rides or shows throughout Disneyland and WDW's history, there was also a balance of unique rides to compliment it, and many of these unique rides did better than their character based counterparts.

Now it appears that Disney just wants to play it safe. They know people like nemo, disney-pixar movies etc, therfore they give it to them.

"Give the guest what they want"

Where is the evidence the guest even wants "that"? Because they ride these new character based rides, or is it because its just available to them to ride at the parks. Not every teen and adult is coming out of stitch, monsters, and nemo thinking its great, compared to the kid who came out giggling because the kid is an imagineers best audience, they can either ride UoE and take a nap so they will be rested, or they could ride stitch's farting peoplemover because no matter how screwed up the imagineers make it, the kid will love it.

Just because someone likes nemo and buys the movie or some other related thing may not mean they want to again have to see the movie again, literally reride the movie at Epcot or go on a sub ride and golly those solar hydrophones let us hear the movie basically all over again with a slightly different adventure.

The general public does not care about art, design, creativity, and what goes into it. They want to have fun (as do I :lookaroun), they want to be entertained, thrilled, etc. It is their vacation (just like it is mine :lookaroun).

Thing is, there is alot more "ohhh man wasn't them there singing bears fun" type of people than there are "holy crap look at those costumes and details" type of people.

Though the imagineers have come up with many new and interesting and successful attractions and designs over the years, there is a bombardment of character based attractions appearing all over the place.

For example, was AE really unpopular and stitch needed to be there? Or how about MiLF :lookaroun, many enjoy it, but does it really belong in Tomorrowland, or CoP, a classic ride, but alot of people don't even know its there.

Disney reps can say all the "our founder walt this, and our founder walt that" but Disney back then was about the lastest and the greatest....it was great to hear the next thing they were coming up with....that may apply in some sense today, but it would appear that now people simply nod their head and go "ohh disney came out with a finding nemo ride at epcot, or a toy story ride at DHS...mmm sounds interesting.....(sounds so typical of disney to just make a ride on something based on a movie)

Guests know what to expect from Disney in a very sterotypical way, and Disney knows what to give guests simply because guests have bought into a particular franchise.

It's my opinion, that's all it can be (thank god right? :lol: :lookaroun) , but to me it seems the company is playing safe and not challenging themselves these days. If bob and judy from mid america like buzz lightyear as does cindy lou and jimbo from some other place and they like buzz lightyear too, and michael and cynthia who are graphic designers come to wdw for the entertainment and the amazing details and art, well damn michael and cynthia are in the minority and sucks to be them because disney's making a buzz lightyear ride instead! :p


I can not defend EPCOT Center in regards to its bombardment of 10 min or more AA rides, lack of foliage, restaurants, shops, and other things to see and do in its early years. Epcot in the mid 90s was a great blend and offering of something for everyone, yet I still can not defend this bomardment of character based rides, when there is no solid evidence that this is what guests actually want, when its a ride just there to go on for the numerous guests who go to WDW and don't even know these new character rides are in fact new.

Imagineering has given us less unique rides i.e. Soarin and EE, and yet those rides have proven to be very popular. Come on imagineers, take a risk and give us something new, don't become another universal studios and rely on prequels and sequel movie based rides that will become outdated in less than 10 years.




expo is in no way affiliated with bob, judy, cindy lou, jimbo, michael, or cynthia


judy is property of EPCOT Center computer central :hammer:
 
jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
Expo_Seeker40 said:
One of the problems I have with Disney is the stereotype it has placed itself in. Such as "ohh Disney is just for kids".

It certainly wasn't....well atleast not then...I'd say before the 1990s. Disney parks themselves were meant for the whole family, some rides for kids, some for teens/adults and some for the whole family. There was a variety, and Walt and his Imagineers strove for detail and design to put guests into experiences they couldn't get at their local amuseument park or carnival.

While there were various character based rides or shows throughout Disneyland and WDW's history, there was also a balance of unique rides to compliment it, and many of these unique rides did better than their character based counterparts.

Now it appears that Disney just wants to play it safe. They know people like nemo, disney-pixar movies etc, therfore they give it to them.

"Give the guest what they want"

Where is the evidence the guest even wants "that"? Because they ride these new character based rides, or is it because its just available to them to ride at the parks. Not every teen and adult is coming out of stitch, monsters, and nemo thinking its great, compared to the kid who came out giggling because the kid is an imagineers best audience, they can either ride UoE and take a nap so they will be rested, or they could ride stitch's farting peoplemover because no matter how screwed up the imagineers make it, the kid will love it.

Just because someone likes nemo and buys the movie or some other related thing may not mean they want to again have to see the movie again, literally reride the movie at Epcot or go on a sub ride and golly those solar hydrophones let us hear the movie basically all over again with a slightly different adventure.

The general public does not care about art, design, creativity, and what goes into it. They want to have fun (as do I :lookaroun), they want to be entertained, thrilled, etc. It is their vacation (just like it is mine :lookaroun).

Thing is, there is alot more "ohhh man wasn't them there singing bears fun" type of people than there are "holy crap look at those costumes and details" type of people.

Though the imagineers have come up with many new and interesting and successful attractions and designs over the years, there is a bombardment of character based attractions appearing all over the place.

For example, was AE really unpopular and stitch needed to be there? Or how about MiLF :lookaroun, many enjoy it, but does it really belong in Tomorrowland, or CoP, a classic ride, but alot of people don't even know its there.

Disney reps can say all the "our founder walt this, and our founder walt that" but Disney back then was about the lastest and the greatest....it was great to hear the next thing they were coming up with....that may apply in some sense today, but it would appear that now people simply nod their head and go "ohh disney came out with a finding nemo ride at epcot, or a toy story ride at DHS...mmm sounds interesting.....(sounds so typical of disney to just make a ride on something based on a movie)

Guests know what to expect from Disney in a very sterotypical way, and Disney knows what to give guests simply because guests have bought into a particular franchise.

It's my opinion, that's all it can be (thank god right? :lol: :lookaroun) , but to me it seems the company is playing safe and not challenging themselves these days. If bob and judy from mid america like buzz lightyear as does cindy lou and jimbo from some other place and they like buzz lightyear too, and michael and cynthia who are graphic designers come to wdw for the entertainment and the amazing details and art, well damn michael and cynthia are in the minority and sucks to be them because disney's making a buzz lightyear ride instead! :p


I can not defend EPCOT Center in regards to its bombardment of 10 min or more AA rides, lack of foliage, restaurants, shops, and other things to see and do in its early years. Epcot in the mid 90s was a great blend and offering of something for everyone, yet I still can not defend this bomardment of character based rides, when there is no solid evidence that this is what guests actually want, when its a ride just there to go on for the numerous guests who go to WDW and don't even know these new character rides are in fact new.

Imagineering has given us less unique rides i.e. Soarin and EE, and yet those rides have proven to be very popular. Come on imagineers, take a risk and give us something new, don't become another universal studios and rely on prequels and sequel movie based rides that will become outdated in less than 10 years.




expo is in no way affiliated with bob, judy, cindy lou, jimbo, michael, or cynthia


judy is property of EPCOT Center computer central :hammer:
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying except that Soarin' and EE seem pretty unique to me. The Imagineers are very busy with DCA and those they contract to for a lot of work are in Dubai (I believe Jim Hill is actually correct about this). I also believe Lasseter is making things happen that will make you happy but it will take time. Patience will be rewarded. :)
 
RSoxNo1

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
I don't think Epcot Circa 1982, or even Circa 1989 (with Wonders of Life and I believe Norway) is anywhere near as popular as it is today. The difficulty is finding the proper blend between character based attractions and original concepts. Remember that Horizons and World of Motion did not have character overlays, they were replaced with thrill rides as it was deemed necessary for Epcot to have thrill rides.

The complaints about character infusion are typically arbitrary. Nobody objected at the inclusion of Splash Mountain, a character based attraction in Frontierland, but a number of people complained about Finding Nemo finding it's way into The Living Seas. Personally, I don't see a problem with the Finding Nemo overlay at the Seas. I didn't typically go to the Seas as it didn't interest my family and I; however, Finding Nemo has definitely put new life into the pavillion, as well as one of the best newer attractions in Turtle Talk with Crush.

Being 1 of the 46,856 members of these forums, we represent a little more than 1 percent of the people that go to Disney World each year. As much as we'd like to think that everything must appeal to the fan boys and fan girls, the reality is that it's more important that things appeal to the masses.

This December I'm going to WDW with some friends, one of which hasn't been in 10 years, the other hasn't been in over 20. I'm trying to to curb their opinions on any attractions in hopes of getting unfiltered opinions of everything they see. Sure, I'll be there as a well informed veteran of the parks to guide them around and see as much as possible, but the hope is to see what someone in their mid 20s thinks of things that we tend to overanalyze.
 
marni1971

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
RSoxNo1 said:
I don't think Epcot Circa 1982, or even Circa 1989 (with Wonders of Life and I believe Norway) is anywhere near as popular as it is today..
Click to expand...
Oh it was - the had to expand the parking lot in February 1983 to the size it is today since it was regularly full. My visit in 1990 was crazy. No FP granted, lines were very big - but with the great crowd control systems in attractions they had back then they kept moving. There was a reason the park was open until 11pm every night for everyone.

nibblesandbits said:
They just get in the way, right? :lookaroun :lol:
Click to expand...
Yep. We do, don`t we :D
 
jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
marni1971 said:
Oh it was - the had to expand the parking lot in February 1983 to the size it is today since it was regularly full. My visit in 1990 was crazy. No FP granted, lines were very big - but with the great crowd control systems in attractions they had back then they kept moving. There was a reason the park was open until 11pm every night for everyone.

Yep. We do, don`t we :D
Click to expand...

But is it possible the Epcot lot would be just as full today if they had not opened MGM and AK?
 
ChrisFL

ChrisFL

Premium Member
RSoxNo1 said:
The complaints about character infusion are typically arbitrary. Nobody objected at the inclusion of Splash Mountain, a character based attraction in Frontierland, but a number of people complained about Finding Nemo finding it's way into The Living Seas.
Click to expand...

Erm, that's completely different. MK IS a character driven park, and was designed for a younger audience than EPCOT Center was. EPCOT was a futuristic, more adult oriented park and it was successful for a long time until they stopped adding new things or updating existing things until by the time they did, a lot of people had stopped going.

Disney never kept their idea of constantly updating EPCOT as intended and as such, it lost what made it special.
 
I

Iknewagirlnamed

New Member
jedimaster1227 said:
While I won't say the extent of the refurbishment currently on the table, I will say that some effects and systems will be installed in Test Track (or whatever it is by that time) in preparation for DCA's Radiator Springs Racer attraction. Again, I'm not saying anything about how Test Track will be affected by these changes just yet, but look for some show scene updates in the coming year or so. Remember that Test Track is the base for the Radiator Springs attraction, and what better attraction to test new effects on if not an attraction that after ten years has Imagineers calling for an update anyways...

As for the post show, I'm half and half on the closure of Fuel for Thought. I was excited at the prospect of a more-tech aware exhibit in the post-show for Test Track, but I was disappointed by the lack of hands on experiences or enough "edjutainment" to keep guests captivated for even five minutes. The exhibit ended up wasting more energy than it set out to save. Personally, I have a strong feeling we will see GM use this space for something a little more interesting, and a little more reasonable from a sponsor stand point. As for the future of the space, that will be reassessed when the pavilion receives its refurbishment as mentioned above.



While this is true, GM gets a strong amount of publicity from the attraction. Everything I've been told has reassured me that they are in it for the long haul. Even if Cars eventually makes its way into the attraction in some form (I won't comment yet), GM will still remain as a sponsor--especially since their investment is in the pavilion as a whole (in whatever state it is in during the duration of their contract).



2-4 years, but yep. Extensive? Maybe. The more noticable changes would be inside of the building, as the facade wouldn't need too much changing. But again, the plans are not yet finite.
Click to expand...

So... what's your source?
 
Slowjack

Slowjack

Well-Known Member
RSoxNo1 said:
The complaints about character infusion are typically arbitrary. Nobody objected at the inclusion of Splash Mountain, a character based attraction in Frontierland, but a number of people complained about Finding Nemo finding it's way into The Living Seas. Personally, I don't see a problem with the Finding Nemo overlay at the Seas. I didn't typically go to the Seas as it didn't interest my family and I; however, Finding Nemo has definitely put new life into the pavillion, as well as one of the best newer attractions in Turtle Talk with Crush.
Click to expand...
I don't think that's the same thing. The Magic Kingdom has always included lots of Disney characters and Epcot originally had none, so one can argue against characters in Epcot and let the ones at Splash go without being "arbitrary."

I think it also depends on the intent. Splash Mountain ties into a film that Disney is probably never going to release on DVD. There's not much "corporate synergy" going on. The tie-in was originally chosen as a way to make use of AA figures from "America Sings" in the Disneyland version. With "Finding Nemo" at the Seas, though, it all feels like a grand sales strategy. I mean, there are three attractions at WDW dedicated to the Nemo world. That seems nuts to me. I mean, Nemo's a good film that I enjoyed a lot, but is it worthy of so much WDW attention?
 
Slowjack

Slowjack

Well-Known Member
jt04 said:
But is it possible the Epcot lot would be just as full today if they had not opened MGM and AK?
Click to expand...
In terms of the lot, I wonder if a larger effect is the greater number of on-site hotel rooms since the early 80s--i.e., more people arriving via "motor coach"?

Certainly the parks cannibalize on each other to an extent. I recall reading when AK opened that Disney was disappointed not so much with AKs attendance as the fact that it did not drive overall attendance higher. But I don't remember the details.
 

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